ShadowSide

Hey everyone!

So I have owned a Subaru WRX for about 4 years now and just sold it yesterday. It was time to move onto something different.

I've always loved 350z, have driven 3 in the past and have twice nearly bought one but never ended up getting it.

I have now officially decided that I want to get a 350z and am super excited to get one .

However, I have a few questions about which model and trim to get.

From the research, it seems like an 07 or 08 would be best due to the HR engine which seems like it is just all around better.

The difference in cost in my country however is approximately 10k give or take. So I am now torn between saving a bit more and using all my funds to get an 07 or 08 350, or buying an 04 or 05 and then having some funds left to mod.

My goals with the car is to be a mostly daily driver but also be able to be used for some fun! I don't plan on drifting the car but it would be nice to be able to send it sideways every now and then.

My main goal though is to eventually put a twin turbo kit on it and get that tuned up with any supporting mods. I have seen that they are well respected kits available that give roughly 125whp give or take.

Basically it would be as follows:

1. Buy 350z and enjoy on factory power for the moment
   
2. Slowly get bodykit I want
   
3. Add twin turbo kit and supporting mods
   

So my main question, is the VQDE still a solid and reliable base to start with? Will I regret getting a 350z with a DE and wish I got an HR? Or does the DE respond just as well to mods for more power?

Also, in terms of trim models, I am really unsure which to get if anyone had suggestions? Or are they really all much of muchness?

Thanks!

MicVelo

The keys are how much your budget is and how well treated the car was.

Twin turbo, eh? What's cost differential of a TT for a DE vs HR. Factor that in. Fair difference. Also, supporting mods are more important than the turbo itself. People are delusional at times and want this big power without giving the car (and driver) the ability to handle, stop, and put down the power properly. Do those first. You might be happy with a well suspended, good tired, big brakes car without the hassles of a turbo.

Buying either a DE or HR, the key point is how the car was treated. For example, just sold my last 33. The buyer got a car that was maintained, records kept, unabused with no hidden problems. Not so for many Zs out there. Make sure it has all of those. If too many miles/wear/abuse, you're going to NEED to at least rebuild the engine before boost. Factor that in.

So, the key theme here: BUDGET. Don't care if DE/HR. I've owned all versions from DE to VHR Nismo. Yeah, the HR/VHRs are better in terms of out-of-the-box performance as they should be, being newer. But nothing wrong with a solid, well kept DE. Don't get hung up on that.

mr. sparco

iTrader: (13)

Had thought about going TT or SC but CARB here in Cali is a big no-no with hood pops and ref tickets. To make it simple, unless buying questionably used parts, its going to cost you another WRX to make big power on the 350z with quality parts. I decided to just get a new WRX and keep my Z.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

Condition, mileage, and maintenance are the most important things here.
Both engines have their issues, as far as models go, 03-05 get any model with Brembos (non-negotiable)
For the 07-08 you can get any model, but the Brembos will be better if available.

VQplatform

All the points mentioned above are great points. Make sure the car is thoroughly inspected (subframe cracks, drivetrain issues, suspension, oil consumption etc). Get a car with brembos and clean interior, take into account the differences in interior, exterior changes and even color choices between HR and DE models. Drive both and decide which car you like how it feels. I was torn as well between the two but ultimately settled on a beautiful DE that came tastefully modded and have been modding it since. OEM parts and aftermarket parts for the DE are cheaper hands down including boost kits. The DE can reliably handle 400whp/wtq which on this chassis is more than enough.

ShadowSide

Hey!

Thanks a bunch for this! What is the cost difference for TT for De vs HR ?

Believe me I completely understand supporting mods etc. I had an 01 WRX that I got from 247bhp to 307bhp and 350nm/tq which was the upper limit I wanted to go based on the gearbox etc.

I am not interested in pushing BIG power. I'd like about 350whp and I'd be stoked with that.

I also wont be turboing it for at least a year or 2 due to having a mortgage.

What would you deem to be high kms? I've been looking at a few 05s currently with lower kms (approx 120,000 - 130,000km) and are around 15 - 18k in my country (approx 5 - 11 USD).

But there is a dealer here that has a 2008 350z with 172,000km on it that I am very tempted to buy. Most of the HR models here are 22 - 25k but this one is 18k. I'm going to get it completely checked out for rust, wear, compression etc.

But should I go with a lower mileage DE especially if I want to TT it later, or am I better to get the HR at 18k with higher kms.

ShadowSide

Hey thank you!

Would you buy a DE with 120,000 - 130,000km or an HR with 172,000km.

HR's in my country are usually 22 - 25k but this one is 18k through a dealer.

DE's here are approx 15 - 18k give or take for a manual one

ShadowSide

Thanks for the reply!

I am very torn as in my country I can get a DE with the CD009 transmission for around 15 - 18k.

HR's are usually 22 - 25k.

There is however a dealer that has a 2008 HR for 18k but it has done 172,000km.

I'd have it all checked out first but I am unsure if I should get a lower mileage DE (I can get one around 120,000km) for around 15k or if I should spend 18k on an HR with 172,000km.

Also, if I was only aiming for 350whp and wouldn't go further, would you recommend a DE based on cost for parts?

It seems that HR parts are a lot more expensive

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I’ll just start out and say that I’m biased towards the DE…everyone knows this and I can’t hide it.

with that being said dont let money (to an extent) factor in too too much … buy the one you want (within reason) if you think this is going to be a long term deal. I’ve owned my z since 2005 and maybe over paid $1k or $1500 but couldnt care less… it’s the one I wanted and I knew I was going to enjoy every minute of it. The overpayment back in 2005 is nothing today.

Any of the generations / iterations will have issues. I suspect the 2003 to 2005 will have the least amount of issues all while having the most potential for future modifications.

The HR will have the fewest tuning options with essentially Uprev reflash unless you want to spend $3k to $5k for a pretty high end Haltech. The 2003 to 2006 will have the most tuning options with the same Uprev flash, haltech piggyback, and Link / Haltech / AEM / ProEFI / etc standalones. The HR has two knock sensors while the DE only has one.

2004.5 / 2005 / 2006 (and the HR options) will give you wideband o2 sensors versus the 2003/2004.0 narrow band

The DE (non revup) will yeild the most torque out of all three (despite the increase in redline through the generations). But dont get too locked up in hp/tq numbers.

The HR has gallery gasket issues - so plan on replacing gallery gaskets at some point in time.

The HR and VHR exhaust manifolds/headers are better and flow more efficiently. But both are sufficient into the 600 to 700hp range.

Twin or single turbo’ing will be more difficult and may be impossible to do on the HR because the dual TBs and how close everything is in the engine bay. It can be done but it’s very time consuming, expensive, and minimal tolerances. The DE w/it’s single TB has far more space. But consider a single turbo over a twin setup. Half as many things to buy, half as many things to leak/break/go wrong and with how good turbos have gotten you wont notice any difference. And if youre looking for less than 450hp, then a tiny t3 sized turbo will be plenty and spool up very fast. Running a T3, .84 AR to get me into the 500hp to 550hp range.

Both will have supercharger options but I’d go turbo before I go SC.

I think the CD009 transmission is better than the JK trans. Both transmissions will have plenty of aftermarket flywheel and clutch disc options. Consider that the JK has an internal slave cylinder and you bascially have to take the transmission off to service the slave cylinder. The CD009 transmission has an external and has been pretty bulletproof through the years.

The HR has a significantly better engine structure (especially the girdle/cradle) and has better pistons and rods that can be pushed well into the 500 to 600hp with supporting modification. The DE has smaller and weaker rods comparatively.

Both the DE and HR fuel systems are essentially the same with only minor changes between the DE and HR.

I dont think there are any imprvements in the axles/diff/driveshaft between the generations.

Things will inheriently be more expensive with the HR - two TBs mean two intakes/MAF sensors/throttle bodies to maintain. I believe the HR has an onboard MAP senors, also wlll have 4 cam shaft position sensors (where the DE has the two).

I specuale the DE has more spare parts availble as many of nissan/infiniti sister chassis have used the DE engine well into the mid 2010 model years. Such as the altima, maxima, murano, etc. When I look for spare parts I usually look for automatic transmission donor vehcles and they’ve been some of the cleanest spares I’ve found and because they are plentiful they are typically less expensive than z or g parts.

The RevUp DE will have a better oil pump than the DE and they are 100% interchangable. I dont know where the oil pumps stand on the HR or VHRs but I suspect they are just as good (if not better) than the DE pump.

If you really wanted to go crazy with modification - an HR can use a 3.7liter VHR block and it’s an added power feature. Google the VHR/HR hybrid for more information.

Heel Til I Die

iTrader: (2)

I don't think an HR is worth the extra $10K over a DE. Based on the fact you're not talking about making a crazy amount of power with modifications, I would go with a clean DE if you can find one. 350 at the wheels is definitely achievable on a DE stock block.

VQplatform

I agree with these points, the HR is comparatively better than the DE but considering that the difference is not so drastic I think the extra 10K can go towards mods. I would only pick the HR if I had no intentions of going boosted because FBO would give me better gains on the HR. I personally plan on going boosted as well, staying under 400whp on the stock block and although vortech superchargers are popular, HKS kits produce way more torque across the powerband. You can get the kit for under 5K so it was a no brainer for me compared to the extra money I would be paying for an HR that is still stock. I also prefer the sound of the DE much more, sounds more raw and has more rumble than the HR. I'd go with a 2004.5 to 2005 as they come with the CD009 transmission.

Enriquez2000

Love my supercharged de.. but SC came with the car. Dollar for dollar turbo is better.

As for the above differences I swapped my 05 diff for a 3.7 out of a 370 and the 370 has better rear wheel bearings to upgrade if you want. But de to hr has no difference in these parts so I will agree with James and get that DE!

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I love the VHR axles on the DE/HRs.

I didnt know that the 2003 to 2008 z33 were the same axles. I think guys twist them at/around 600 to 700 ft-lbs? So it makes sense that nissan didnt upgrade them during the z33 era.