This is ridiculous - plain and simple... it all boils down to Dave trying to make a few extra bucks by playing middleman and it comes back to bite him in the a$$ - see what happens when you get greedy, Dave? Now your reputation on this forum (a large chunk of your business) just went out the window because of that... There are at least ten things you could have done right away to fix the situation before Kat ever had the chance to post on the forum, and you refused to do so...

This is the problem with salespeople who are in it for the "sales" and not the "people"...

 

whoa girl you ordered all that??? I want your job! As long as i get to keep my clothes on

 

Can we move this topic somewhere else now? I feel like it is People's Court.

 

Well after reading for practically an hour I am shocked at what i see. Personally I spent close to $20,000 in purchases from 350zforums.org exclusively. I never once had an issue with their work or the punctuality. Dave was always very responsive to me and god knows I was probably one of the most annoying customers ever. I changed my mind at least 2-3 times a day about what spoiler i wanted etc. Given the circumstances surrounding this I'd be inclined not to pin this on him. Yes he may very well have been serving as the middleman between yourself and the painter but if the painter really gave two ***** about their work they would have contacted yourself or dave and made a strong arguement about being paid more or not doing the job. It really boils down to Mike not giving a crap because it wasnt his car. I've had many bad experiences with painters and their **** poor excuses. They dont realize how we as a commmunity look at our cars. They feel every car is some in and out collision job well thats not how it is. If Dave is the same as I knew him to be I'm sure he is honestly doing all he can to resolve this issue in a timely manner given his situation. I understand why you came on these boards to speed up this process but not everyone will be subjected to dave's hospitality and to taint his name in such a blatant way is somewhat uncalled for. No one will forget this regardless of the outcome but all I can hope for is that my words somewhat alleviate the negative perception that is surrounding his business. I owe nothing to dave nor does he owe to me so this is done on my own free-will and in good practice for what he had done for me in my numerous run-ins with him. I hope this issue is resolved soon for you and that your kit comes out looking jsut as good as your friends.

 

I'm not picking sides but its hard to keep a business running perfectly, sometimes some things get to be a miss. Sometimes you can't help what other people (employee) do while running a business. I've spent just about 30k over a wide spread of business's and yeah I had some problems with some vendors but its not aimed at me its just some things get missed. But I do understand cats side too, but this one is a mess.
I've never done business with 350zforums.org but maybe someday I will and I'll still give them a chance even after this because I'm sure he will not let this turn out this way again.

 

There is only one guy to blame for all of this trouble....DAVE.... he acted as cats agent now Im not sure If cat paid dave and dave was to pay those amatures but If that was the case dave should never have paid them untill the vehicle was right, It was down to him to get the car back to cat in the condition she stated she wanted it to be in.

Now lets all go down to the pub for a pint.............

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with this arrangement. If you bring your car to a dealer due to a paint problem, they very likely will outsource it out to reputable shop to do the work. In my area (south of L.A.), this is done all the time and there are many "official bodyshops of dealer XXXXX" that work on cars.

What was pitifully wrong is that apparently the shops were either not reputable and/or did a horrible job. It's hard to look at those pictures and think that the bodyshop knew what they were doing and were reputable. Further, the fact that the customer was permitted to see the car in that "finished" condition. *Someone* should have seen it before the customer did and said, "Whooooaaaaaa! This isn't right, it needs to be fixed!" -and sent it back or somewhere else.

Ultimately that responsiblility seems to fall on Dave, no excuses, bottom line. Now this all might be fixed, but it should have never happened in the first place. As no one can go back in time, the only thing to do is go forward.

 

damn that was a long thread. sorry to hear what happened cat; i hope everything gets resolved. shady body shops are always an issue (especially w/ a new car??!!! wtf). as far as dave goes, i think everyone should stop putting his personal life on blast.

 

Good luck to all parties involved! I think that paint guy's shop needs to be burned to the ground though! : )

I think Dave will make things right Cat, whether it's paying you back or fixing everything just the way you should expect it! I think you have every right to be as mad as you are, but keep your head up, it will work out for you in the end...take care!

 

holy hell... my eyes are bleeding now!

all i know is i have talked with dave on many occasions and then, i wasn't even a prospective customer! i was just some annoying kid asking questions about this car and his products. dave has been nothing but nice and courteous with me. i know that when i get my Z this next month, i will def be giving atleast SOME of my business to 350zforums. it is unforunate that all of this has happened and that Dave has been pinned for it. Cat, it was very irresponsible and immature of you to post this out on an open forum. you should have delt with this privately.

 

If Dave is the guy who you brought the car to, and he ended up subbing out all the work, Dave is still ultimately responsible for all the work, not the subs. Dave can go after his subs all he wants. But the customer can go after Dave. That's the way it is in the business world.

If you bring your car to XYZ Motorcars for service, and they sub out say the detail job on your paint and it gets screwed up. XYZ Motorcars is legally liable to the customer for damages, not the subcontractor.

I think this guy Dave's, attitude is just plain stinky. Instead of being nasty in his defensive posts, he should just shut up and pay to have the car fixed right. This little fiasco has undoubtedly cost him a lot of $$$ in the form of lost sales. Maybe he just doesn't care because arrogance has blinded him. In the long run though, companies that don't pay attention to customer satisfaction end up falling by the wayside. The free market system usually weeds out the bad apples.

 

I understand the frustration that was behind the point of this post, but I do think it was uncalled for. You should have worked things out with him first before trying to taint this guys reputation. You never gave him a chance to make things right, and it seems as though he is in process of trying to do exactly that.

There are ALWAYS going to be issues within a business that don't go so smoothly, and the way things turn out is the true measure of a company's reputation. Throwing this into the public light at such an early stage of the game was NOT the right thing to do. I have extensive experience in customer service, and there are always two sides to a story.

I have nothing but good things to say about Dave. He will do all he can to make things right. He is a very busy man, so please give him the chance to prove his character.

 

If you have also read through this mess, people who have dealt with Dave seemed to have said that he will willingly bend over backwards for a prospective buyer (if you ask questions, your a prospect) yet once he has your money, you can never get ahold of him or even worse, if you have an issue, he drags it out as long as possible. This is what other people have said along the course of this post as their experiences with Dave, so keep that in mind. When i first was buying things from Dave it was SO EASY to get ahold of him, but once he had my money, I could NEVER get ahold of him....

I gave Dave PLENTY of time to make this right and i couldn't even get ahold of him! He saw the car after everything was done, he picked it up and told me it was perfect. Bottome line no matter who says what, the pistures show the story. I also DID NOT WANT TO GO HERE BUT Dave left me no choice.... RECENTLY if you read the posts, several people have been having problems with Dave and they ALL said that I would have to be on his a** and threaten him before he will ever follow through with anything. So me baing immature or unprofessional, fine whatever. But the thing to remember here is I TRIED to solve it privately, I gave him fair warning that I would take drastic measure to get this back. I''m not going to let him drag this out to a 2 month ordeal, it needs to be solved now. Dave has an excuse for everything, I have learned that but I never "questioned" him until he proved me wrong!

If he makes it right, I'll make it right! that's the goal here!

 

We have also both agreed that this shop is not "qualified" and will never touch my car again, so why did he pay him for the job? Dave should have immediately given my money back. The only thing left is to refund me my money and that wouldn't take long considering I just payed him. Also I am very will to go out of my way to meet him at his request yet that hasn't happened yet?? I gave him time and he ignored me, I posted this because I wanted Dave to know I wasn't going to let it die and just move on! no way! He only NOW is trying to make it right because of the "threats" unfortunately. I never wanted to go about it in this manner yet, what other option did I have? He wouldn't even call me or answer my calls?? Yes, he has excuses but c'mon no one is THAT busy to not call someone if their is an issue with the work you have provided them. I mean, call while you are driving to your next meeting or whatever.. there is time here, and I gave him plenty of time. For him to ignore me was telling me he wasn't going to deal with the situation. he even contradicted himself by what he posted in this thread earlier.

Bottom line, Dave said he is going to make it right, and hopefully he will. When he comes through I will let everyone know! but if he doesn't we will have a lawsuit.

he never said he was going to make it right until I threatened to get a lawyer and Victor told him he needs to take care of this problem etc... then all of sudden he was very willing to call US and tell US that this problem will be resolved.

NOTE: that I even have a signed contract agreement ( by Dave and I ) that he was taking my car into possesion to get the body kit and paint installed and that i would be paying through him. Therefore he is responsible for the car itself and what work is done to it.

 

how about being mature? i know you are young...but stop acting childish. threatening someone doesn't get you anywhere....just makes you look stupid.

you couldn't get a hold of him....his f'n wife has cancer....if i was him...i'd give two shiits about your car. i'd be praying for my wife and spending time with her. seems like he travels a lot for business as well. you aren't going to be able to call him up and shoot the shiit with him whenever you want.

the car will get fixed...he said it would. just be patient. the more you act like you are...the less he's going to want to help you. have a bit of respect.

i guess some people don't know how business works. the painter that painted your car is just one of his vendors. it's not his fault he screwed it up. maybe he was having a bad day and didn't care about your car. why do you think companies have numerous vendors over the years???

"If he makes it right, I'll make it right! that's the goal here!" - i guess your mom never told you that 2 wrongs don't make a right. looks like dave is being the mature one here. it's obviously not you.

i know you are frustrated...hell...i would be too. but, i'd handle it like an adult. i was screwed over by a company over a year ago. they tried to screw over many people on this forum (i had a group buy a long time ago...before you had to be a vendor). the company tried to screw me over and screw over everyone else that bought the product. i had 30+ people on this forum waiting for a product...and they were coming to me asking what was going on. the company i was working through was makign me look like a jerk...and i didn't even do anything. was it my fault...no. it was the companies fault. so, is this daves fault that the painter did a crappy job? no...it's the painters fault. i didn't go on the forum and biitch and moan and complain. i settled it one on one with the company...everyone got their product...and i got a full body kit for free. you just have to be mature about it and have some patience. i had to wait a few months to get everything...but, everything came.

ask for eveyrthing to be paid for. ask for something for your time and patience and for dealing with everything...instead of badmouthing someone...trying to pick fights....and trying to look like the "toughguy" by threatening someone.

good luck...i hope you get everything settled and i hope it works out for you....i really do. just stop with the biitching and moaning and badmouthing. is it really worth your time and effort?

 

I'm not taking sides in this whole issue.

I think the sequence of events that were allowed to transpire on the vendors side are deplorable. Yes, things fall through the cracks, but this one is a gaping chasm, and Cat's entire car fell through it. When you take posession of someone's brand new 30K+ sports car and agree to install (either yourself or by contract to someone else) several more thousand dollars worth of mods on it, you handle that issue personally and with kid gloves. If you're not willing to do so, then you shouldn't be lining up these kinds of deals. They obviously take more time than Dave had, and now it's gone awry. Dave himself said that this is the last such time he will do so. I don't know that I blame him. That's alot of assumed risk.

Now, you guys need to imagine if you came to pick your car up and it looked like that. You'd be out for blood too. Not wanting to be hasty in flaming the guy responsible for it would be the furthest thing from your mind, especially given the apparent lack of urgency displayed in getting it fixed. You'd want arrangements made to take care of it before you walked away from it the first time. Cat, on the other hand, had to get back in a car (NOT her Z) and drive home to another STATE without any answers. Not as easy to control your temper as you'd like to think it is.

NOW....All that being said, I really think that Dave will make good on this. Really. He's got other engagements that he's put ahead of this issue, but it's not for any of us to decide whether that's the correct thing to do, we're not in his shoes.

I guess it's important to realize that even if this thread had never been started, Dave got screwed on this deal, too. Even if his first response was "Damn Cat, I am so sorry for the way this turned out, let me make it right, right now" and cut her a check for the cost of the install/painting and a generous estimate for the repair of the side skirts, he would still have to go and deal with Mike, who very obviously is an immoral piece of crap who will likely stiff Dave on these fees anyway.

Amazing how many people in this thread have come forward to say that they too have had problems with this vendor, yet none of their complaints appear in the vendor review section. That means one of two things: Either Dave has been lucky that these people didn't post a review (until now), or they were posted and removed. That really doesn't matter at this point, though.

 

i agree with you for the most part. only thing i don't agree with is this part:

"Now, you guys need to imagine if you came to pick your car up and it looked like that. You'd be out for blood too. Not wanting to be hasty in flaming the guy responsible for it would be the furthest thing from your mind, especially given the apparent lack of urgency displayed in getting it fixed. You'd want arrangements made to take care of it before you walked away from it the first time. Cat, on the other hand, had to get back in a car (NOT her Z) and drive home to another STATE without any answers. Not as easy to control your temper as you'd like to think it is."

i, in no way shape or form, stoop to the level of attacking someone...verbally or physically. it's just not worth it in my opinion. i'd rather get it fixed instead of wasting time and energy getting angry. i guess i am just much more laid back than the regular person...and i don't let anything bother me. i totalled another one of my cars (got run off the road by an SUV and he kept driving)...it took almost a month for the guy to go out and estimate the damages...then it took almost 2 years for my court date to come (i appealed the points on my license and increase in my insurance)...and i'm still waiting to hear the results. yeah...it's annoying...but whatever. i have better things do to then stress out over this stuff. i've paid a few thousand dollars just in premium charges on my insurance. i'm just hoping they prove that the accident wasn't my fault...and i get the money back.

also....if he told me his wife had cancer...i'd understand if he wasn't always available...if he wasn't always picking up his phone...if he was short on the phone...if he wasn't always reasonable on the phone....etc. come on...cancer is a deadly disease. cat...what would you do if your husband had cancer. think about it. maybe give him a little more slack. his wife's life is much more important to him than your car...and it should be. Mike is the one you should be mad at....not Dave.

 

DJkern, you have a valid point.

I do look back and feel very bad for starting this thread yet, once i got back to Ok, i didn't hear from Dave and couldn't get ahold of him. I felt like i was never gonna talk to him again... I wanted to believe Dave would come through and fix this, but yet, how this whole deal ended just plained sucked.... a few things here and there I was never made aware of the situation. I felt completely in the Dark on this whole deal and tried and tried to find out the progress, yet nothing. Even smaller things like not even telling me the wing wasn't installed until i come to pick it up made it real hard for me to believe Dave and even harder once i couldn't reach him for 5min of his time....

I am sorry yet that doesn't take away the post.... i jsut hope it is settled, it is a very frusterating and stressful deal. Dave dais he wouldn't let a bad job fly yet, when he came and saw the car as it is in the pictures he kept saying well, that's fiberglass, and the paint is perfect... I told Dave it needed to be fixed and he said he would settle things on Mon. and no word, couldn't contact him, but i;m told that everyone else with this bopdykit hs A+ fitment, where am i wrong here?

yes I have acted immature, but I am left in the dark on this matter and the only thing i could think of was that i was getting ****ed...

again I apologize, but that doesn't make the fact that i started this thread go away. I just don't know anymore! I just want my car not to look like that!

I never told Dave now you have to leave your wife and put me first. But why not take 5 min. to talk about it and come to a decision on how to solve this problem so it doesn't take up anymore time? We agreed that the body shop won't touch my car, so why not give me my money back? Like i said, I am willing to drive to wherever he is and meet on his terms yet it never happened. Yet, Still there has been no final decision on how this is going to be made right! why can't I atleast get that? even if it took longer to make it happen would be fine, yet I can't even talk to Dave to see HOW theis problem will be fixed, i.e refunding my money, getting it fixed somewhere else and then go from there...

I just need to stop here because Dave said he will take care of it once he is back from NO, so By Sunday/Monday we should have talked and settled this problem... therefore nothing else can really be said until Sunday/Monday. Yet i am still unaware of how Dave is going to make this right, which is really all I want to know at this point. he doesn't have to make it happen NOW, I know things take time, but how can you fix something and make it right when we haven't even come to an agreement on how to fix the situation...

 

that's the attitude i like to see. that's the mature side i've seen before. i know you are a very smart girl...i know you are a very nice girl. don't let anger get to you. it's not worth it at all.

when someone in your life has cancer...5 minutes can be a long time. when he's traveling as much as he is....and being away from his sick wife....i'm sure he's got more stress than many of us combined. i have a few friends that have parents or siblings or significant others that are going through cancer treatment. it's not the easiest thing. they are never around....not even to talk to on the phone.

but, i'm glad you calmed down a bit. i wish you luck and i'm sure it will all get setted.

 

What he said....

when you agree to subcontract to another firm, you assume the risk of that firm doing a shady job, and the onus is upon you to act accordingly if such a situation arises. 'Nuff said.