I need help. I work with a new s2000 owner and a 944 turbo owner that are spouting off 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for boxters, boxter S, Carrera and S2000. One says that S2000 was rated at 5.2 (0-60). Is this true, are there any lower times from other mags? What about the boxter and S and carrera? Anyone know how the Z's mag results compare to theirs. I need to know whether to shut up or defend our Z. BTW, the 944 turbo guy is a former professional road racer (911s) turned lawyer. Apparently, his 944 turbo does 0-60 in 4.7.

 

Stock 944 T do NOT do 0-60 in under 5. Sorry. And Mag Racing is pretty much garbage, there have been numbers on the S2K that range from 0-60 in 6.1 to 5.0, you have to look at what most people are running in 1/4 to get a sense of how cars run, and the majority of S2K's are NOT getting below 14's stock, *please no flames, I know that S2k's are VERY capable of pulling consistant high 13's, it's just that most people aren't getting them* But that is irrelevant because the Stook is an AMAZING handler and will molest most cars in a real race, it wasn't built for the 1/4. As for the 944 T, whatever. That car stock is not a beast, which is why it died out when the Z32 and others came in and the predecesor to the Boxter, was way over priced and not a great sports car. Go see what 0-60 #'s porsche claims for boxter and boxter s, they are slower then the Z33. 0-60 in around 5.6 for the S.

 

P.S. HOT DAMN Look at my points!

 

The 944 isn't stock, I think he has exhaust, intake, clutch and possibly intercooler upgrades. It is damn fast. I've ridden in it.

 

 

There won't be any comparison experts on these cars until someone takes all of them out on a track/road and beats the **** out of them.

 

If he wants to compare modified to modified, then let me if you guys are ever in Dallas. If I still own my 300 at that time, then I'll take you guys for a spin. It only has 400hp (puts down 340hp at the rear wheels) from basic bolt-ons, but it dwarfs the 350 in terms of acceleration.

On another note, I let my good friend test drive my 350 a while back (I posted about it). He owns a 993 Turbo and instructs/attends HPDE, including PCA (if your friend is a member of PCA and attends PCA DE's, then he may know him). He also races a spec RX-7 in NASA and SCCA. Anyway, he liked the 350 enough that he's looking into the possibility of getting one. *shrug*

Michael.

 

I guess the real test; the one I am most interested in, is a true lap time test on a real road course. Stock vs. stock. Hopefully one of the mags will do a comparison soon

I have not bought a car yet, still looking at a S2k and a Z, but really leaning towards the Z.

I plan on doing a few track days, the Track model Z with the Brembo's may just hold up better than a stock 2k.

Honda does get the quality nod though.

George

 

Also, you want to consider room. My buddy with the S2 had to travel to a firm retreat alone with his golf clubs in the passenger seat and his luggage in the trunk. I took my Z and a passenger, both of our golf bags, with the woods out of the bags, and a duffle bag each, and all of his shopping bags from the trip on the way home. The Z definitely has more storage for day to day livability.

 

Best lap time on a road course is deceiving. I have the S2k and it is a blast to drive, but it is not an easy car to consistently drive well. And it will really bite you with snap oversteer if you are not careful. If you are a Prost or Schumacher and never make mistakes, the S2k is a formidable racing competitor...but if you are as good as those guys you should be in a profession where sponsors a lining up at your door begging you to drive their car competitively.

I've yet to drive the Z (crawled a round in one at the stealer though...any Z owner in the Tallahassee, FL area want to give me a ride??? ), but from everything I've heard I would bet it will be much easier to drive at near 10/10ths for average drivers.

And I would not be so quick to assume that the build quality on the S2k is equivalent to other Hondas. It is good, but it is assembled in the same factory along side the NSX and like the NSX there many parts and manufacturing processes that are very specific to those low production cars. There are several minor bugaboos that have cropped up on the S2k. On the other hand, the Nissan VQ engine is bullet proof.

Build quality wise, the only things I would say that the S2k has over the Z at this point is good paint, and better interior fit and finish (sorry, but the Z's grade of plastic and the fit, especially the NAV door, is not the best). Certainly minor complaints

About the only other thing going for the S2k is that it is getting to be a decent deal as most are going for $1000-$1500 under MSRP. The Z will draw MSRP+ for at least the next 12-18 months. The current real world price difference between the S2k and a Z Track will buy a lot of nice goodies for the stook.

 

Yet I can't seem to find the button that makes the top go down in the Z .... silly comparison.

As someone said before, until all of these cars go to the track this thread is simply speculation.

I will say that in my experience the S2k is not an outstanding car on the track (safety reasons included) and the Z is just too damn heavy for anyone ever considering it as a real track only car.

 

Does it really, really matter?

BTW, I'm no expert on any of them, but I do know that you spell Porsche like this!

I've taken my S2000 to a drag strip before. Out of three runs, the best I ran was a high 14. Launching the S2000 is key and something I was unable to unlock that night. Oh well, in the end, it comes to the driver more thna the car.

 

That's mere speculation, at best. Remember that Nissan plans on delivering 30 - 40k 350Z's by model year 2004. MSRP+ will be something from the past in about 2 months.

I know this, I was taught the law of supply and demand by a Nissan sales manager. inside joke

 

I just completed a High performance driving course at Sears Point and I can add a few observations. This was my first time ever and it really is about the driver. There was a guy with a 911 turbo all wheel drive that just could not move.

On the 350Z side the Instructors drove the car and said that this was a joy to drive and every bit the performance of the other four Boxter "S's" in the class. One guy races in the Trans Am series in a Porche.

Once you complete a day of thrill it is a real come down driving home in traffic.

 

Yes, I drive like Schumacher and Prost...in my Minds eye )

Good points about the S2k though, I know it's a 10/10ths car. I have a race prepped R6 which I do track days with, so I know what riding and driving like that is. Maybe a little more torque and a little more relaxed car is what I need. I have bikes for the high intensity fix.

From what I have read about the track handling of the Z, maybe a larger diameter rear bar is in order to help the mid turn understeer.

Anyway I am still researching both cars for now.

Cheers,

George

 

I am not aware that "most" S2000's are going for $1K under MSRP. This may happen with left over 02 models, but at least in my neck of the woods MSRP for the 03 models is expected. Also the S2000 is a convetible and may be a little harder to sell in the winter time so some deals may be available.

I am just curious about the use of the term "most" are going for under MSRP because I have not seen or heard of this happening at all. It may happen some times but I would say that "most" are selling at MSRP.

I'd say that the Z will be selling for MSRP for most of the year, but when the 04 model rolls around the 03's should be had for less than MSRP, that's to be expected.

 

My car situation:
Currently own an '00 S2000.
Used to own a race prepared '85.5 944 (non-turbo.)
Currently building up a fully race prepared '86 944 Turbo.
Have driven an '00 Boxster S on the street and track.
Have never been in a 350Z.

Yes, a magazine has gotten a 5.2sec 0-60 run, and other S2000 owners have reported anything from a 13.8 to a 15.0+ quarter mile. Of course, conditions varied widely for those various runs, but what it suggests to me is that the S2000 has the potential for that performance, regardless of whether any particular owner can extract it.

The Boxster S and S2000 in a straight line are identical in acceleration. Over a handful of runs, neither car pulled on the other. 944 Turbos can be easily built up - we're shooting for 330hp or so in the race car with minimal engine work. (And in a 2200 to 2400 pound car, it should scream.) But stock they're relatively slow compared to today's sports cars.

The reports I've read about S2000 and 350Z street encounters put them relatively close, with the 350Z having an advantage. Even so, sometimes the S2000 wins.

There are two places to go to get true transponder based S2000 lap times on various tracks - the Honda Hall of Fame and Speed Ventures. If any 350Z owners have laptimes of their own, post them!

On the track, the two S's are pretty close too, with the Boxster having understeer problems and the S2000 with oversteer. In general I prefer the feel of the S2000, though - more flickable, go-kart like. The 85.5 944, even with 150hp and 2900lbs, could easily catch and pass either of the stock cars - it's amazing what Hoosier tires and a proper racing suspension setup can do!

 

Check S2ki.com...there have been many posts about them going for under MSRP...including the '03. A buddy of mine just put a deposit down last week on a '03 white/tan for $31,500, which is $1500 under MSRP (with destination charge). I was just at our local dealer today and they have 2 '02s in the showroom (blk/blk & wht/red). I've never seen them sitting in this particular dealer...they are normally never around very long. The salesman tried to entice me to trade-in my '01 and said he could get me in either one for under $31k.

You are right it is probably based on your area, but I'm in FL so the winter does not effect roadster sales here.

BTW, I was at the BMW/Porsche dealer too and checked out the Z4 (yuck). The economy is hitting roadsters and specialty sports cars hard. This particular dealer did not sell a single Boxster all last month and the salesman (a personal friend) had talked to Brumos Porsche and they sold 11 units total last month...that is really low for them. So it should not be suprising to learn that S2k prices are falling below MSRP.