Which would sound better?
10-02-2006, 08:53 AM
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Which would sound better?
JL10W6 or Kicker Solobaric S10L7? Looking for a real deep loud bass, wondering which would be the best bang for the buck?
10-02-2006, 10:38 AM
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Well I've never heard the 10W6V2 but I've owned a Kicker S12L7 and it did pound with a lot of power and a decently tuned box! I'd say either one will be loud but if you want real deep loud bass I'd buy a zEnclosure box for the 10w7. Then build a slot port into the box for the 10w6v2 and tune the slot/port to about 32 hertz. That will give you extrememly low bass and the box will be loud.
I ran the S12L7 in two configurations (sealed & tuned)...The sealed box yielded much more of a punchy type bass while the tuned/ported box produced low loose bass. If you like RAP music the tuned box is the way to go IMO.
You also could have Mike from zEnclosures make you the 10w7 box with the square cut out for the L7.
Just me 2 cents...
I ran the S12L7 in two configurations (sealed & tuned)...The sealed box yielded much more of a punchy type bass while the tuned/ported box produced low loose bass. If you like RAP music the tuned box is the way to go IMO.
You also could have Mike from zEnclosures make you the 10w7 box with the square cut out for the L7.
Just me 2 cents...
Last edited by tahoe-man; 10-02-2006 at 02:17 PM.
10-02-2006, 12:33 PM
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Best bang for the buck is the Kicker, however, a W6v2 is a much better subwoofer as far as musicality and distortion are concerned. Overall output is about the same, but the Kicker is a better value.
If you have the extra money to upgrade, you will be glad you did.
If you have the extra money to upgrade, you will be glad you did.
10-03-2006, 06:03 AM
#5
How hard would it be for you to find a shop which carried both woofers and ask for a side-by-side demo using your music material and your own ears? This seeming impossible method will produce the most accurate results every single time in the "what sounds better" dillema.
I hate to sound like an *** but these questions always turn into a worthless waste of bandwidth as you're asking the personal opinion on a personal taste. Like asking which pizza tastes better Supreme or Meat Lovers - the question has no correct answer. Who makes better wives blondes or brunettes? Even if I knew what kind of music you listened to it would be just crazy to make a wild guess on which of these two woofers you would like.
Now throw in "best bang for the buck" and you blow that guess as what you concider best bang for the buck in a better sounding speaker might not be my bang for the buck and I would choose a cheaper speaker.
So I'll take the Meat Lover's pizza with the blonde.
I hate to sound like an *** but these questions always turn into a worthless waste of bandwidth as you're asking the personal opinion on a personal taste. Like asking which pizza tastes better Supreme or Meat Lovers - the question has no correct answer. Who makes better wives blondes or brunettes? Even if I knew what kind of music you listened to it would be just crazy to make a wild guess on which of these two woofers you would like.
Now throw in "best bang for the buck" and you blow that guess as what you concider best bang for the buck in a better sounding speaker might not be my bang for the buck and I would choose a cheaper speaker.
So I'll take the Meat Lover's pizza with the blonde.
10-03-2006, 07:24 AM
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Paul,
I have personally tested (via LMS, MLSSA and Klippel) almost every driver you can name. I have scientific evidence that backs almost every claim I make on here. Furthermore, read Vance Dickason's review of the JL sub ... the one in which he calls it something along the lines of "the best sub I have ever heard".
I gave the bang for the buck comment based on the fact that the Kicker will get nearly as loud (percievably) for significantly less money.
Jim
I have personally tested (via LMS, MLSSA and Klippel) almost every driver you can name. I have scientific evidence that backs almost every claim I make on here. Furthermore, read Vance Dickason's review of the JL sub ... the one in which he calls it something along the lines of "the best sub I have ever heard".
I gave the bang for the buck comment based on the fact that the Kicker will get nearly as loud (percievably) for significantly less money.
Jim
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10-03-2006, 09:19 AM
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I ran my S12L7 with a PPI AX606.2 pushing it at about 400 watts and it rocked. I pulled it out the box and used it in my boat with a JBL BP600.1 (600 watts) and it was obnoxiously loud!
I think that sub will take 600 RMS in a sealed box and 450 RWS in a ported enclosure.
You could buy the JBL BP600.1 from eBay pretty cheap. You could always run a JL 500/1. I don’t believe the JBL has a subsonic filter though and can hurt the sub.
The kicker amp might be a bit of overkill but maybe not!
I think that sub will take 600 RMS in a sealed box and 450 RWS in a ported enclosure.
You could buy the JBL BP600.1 from eBay pretty cheap. You could always run a JL 500/1. I don’t believe the JBL has a subsonic filter though and can hurt the sub.
The kicker amp might be a bit of overkill but maybe not!
10-03-2006, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JimRHIT
Paul,
I have personally tested (via LMS, MLSSA and Klippel) almost every driver you can name. I have scientific evidence that backs almost every claim I make on here. Furthermore, read Vance Dickason's review of the JL sub ... the one in which he calls it something along the lines of "the best sub I have ever heard".
I gave the bang for the buck comment based on the fact that the Kicker will get nearly as loud (percievably) for significantly less money.
Jim
I have personally tested (via LMS, MLSSA and Klippel) almost every driver you can name. I have scientific evidence that backs almost every claim I make on here. Furthermore, read Vance Dickason's review of the JL sub ... the one in which he calls it something along the lines of "the best sub I have ever heard".
I gave the bang for the buck comment based on the fact that the Kicker will get nearly as loud (percievably) for significantly less money.
Jim
Have you ever tested Phoenix Gold Octane ZR10D4? I'm just curious to how it sounds in your opinions?
Joe
10-04-2006, 06:31 AM
#10
Originally Posted by JimRHIT
Paul,
I have personally tested (via LMS, MLSSA and Klippel) almost every driver you can name. I have scientific evidence that backs almost every claim I make on here. Furthermore, read Vance Dickason's review of the JL sub ... the one in which he calls it something along the lines of "the best sub I have ever heard".
I gave the bang for the buck comment based on the fact that the Kicker will get nearly as loud (percievably) for significantly less money.
Jim
I have personally tested (via LMS, MLSSA and Klippel) almost every driver you can name. I have scientific evidence that backs almost every claim I make on here. Furthermore, read Vance Dickason's review of the JL sub ... the one in which he calls it something along the lines of "the best sub I have ever heard".
I gave the bang for the buck comment based on the fact that the Kicker will get nearly as loud (percievably) for significantly less money.
Jim
You are correct. Hopefully bklusa1 has a listen to these.
Fortunately or unfortunately science as yet to document what makes a good sounding speaker. I too read the reviews from the "golden ears" and other than a very high correlation between ad revenue, expense, and ratings I have noticed that what one reviewer likes another doesn't. I have also noticed that there are speakers I like and don't like that others talk raves about. I often don't do or buy what's popular just because the other kids are doing or buying it.
Many don't like the "Klispch Sound" produced by their highly efficient (science!) horn tweeters and their midranges. Too harsh, too sharp, tinny and other negative terms are used but others love the Klispch.
Bose. They're my personal least favorites. No highs, no lows ... must be Bose. I use to argue against a pair of friends that had Bose 901 Series I or II speakers back in the late 1970's. I had some big old Marantz speakers that I swore out played the triple as expensive 901's. We never played them side-by-side until one weekend party at my place where we had a live band and I used one of my friend's 901's pairs and that stupid EQ along with my speakers to entertain the crowd between sets. The difference was big, like knock you over the head with a 2x4 big. There was no way possible to not notice the difference between the two sets of speakers. My Marantz's were solid and clear ... the Bose were missing the low end completely and were weak on the high end. Side-by-side there was no argument in my mind but still the friend stood by his dogged support of the Bose because certainly he couldn't have spent three times a much and not gotten a good speaker ... now could he?
I highly encourage buyers to shop their speakers side-by-side for this very lesson that I learned at age 17 or 18. The ear is an amazingly easy organ to fool. It doesn't have a good memory and can be tricked. Science does help with measurements of frequency, and amplitude but more subtle differences are hard if not impossible to measure - the "voice" of the speakers. Tastes differ as do speakers. What one person listens for in a speaker is probably not what I listen for.
I don't recall listening to Kickers but probably did ... I have listened to some of JL's 8" offerings and enjoyed them. Here in my little town of 250,000 there are probably two dozen custom car stereo stores (not Tweeter/Best Buy/etc) which means checking out speakers side-by-side is a bit easier. The competition keeps those little ma & pa stores hungry keeping their prices lower and they're willing to let people audition speakers (in some cases).
I will add that it's very important to spend more time on your subwoofer enclosure than it is picking out your subwoofer. You can take a great subwoofer and make it sound good or OK by poorly mounting it in the wrong sized enclosure.
So petite blondes with meat lover's pizza ... now let's talk beer ... there is but only on true beer on the planet and the rest are just pee water. Without a single doubt in my military mind the only beer worth drinking in Western Australia's Victorian Bitter ... God's green gift to mankind.
10-04-2006, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul350Z
Science? Ha!
You are correct. Hopefully bklusa1 has a listen to these.
Fortunately or unfortunately science as yet to document what makes a good sounding speaker. I too read the reviews from the "golden ears" and other than a very high correlation between ad revenue, expense, and ratings I have noticed that what one reviewer likes another doesn't. I have also noticed that there are speakers I like and don't like that others talk raves about. I often don't do or buy what's popular just because the other kids are doing or buying it.
Many don't like the "Klispch Sound" produced by their highly efficient (science!) horn tweeters and their midranges. Too harsh, too sharp, tinny and other negative terms are used but others love the Klispch.
Bose. They're my personal least favorites. No highs, no lows ... must be Bose. I use to argue against a pair of friends that had Bose 901 Series I or II speakers back in the late 1970's. I had some big old Marantz speakers that I swore out played the triple as expensive 901's. We never played them side-by-side until one weekend party at my place where we had a live band and I used one of my friend's 901's pairs and that stupid EQ along with my speakers to entertain the crowd between sets. The difference was big, like knock you over the head with a 2x4 big. There was no way possible to not notice the difference between the two sets of speakers. My Marantz's were solid and clear ... the Bose were missing the low end completely and were weak on the high end. Side-by-side there was no argument in my mind but still the friend stood by his dogged support of the Bose because certainly he couldn't have spent three times a much and not gotten a good speaker ... now could he?
I highly encourage buyers to shop their speakers side-by-side for this very lesson that I learned at age 17 or 18. The ear is an amazingly easy organ to fool. It doesn't have a good memory and can be tricked. Science does help with measurements of frequency, and amplitude but more subtle differences are hard if not impossible to measure - the "voice" of the speakers. Tastes differ as do speakers. What one person listens for in a speaker is probably not what I listen for.
I don't recall listening to Kickers but probably did ... I have listened to some of JL's 8" offerings and enjoyed them. Here in my little town of 250,000 there are probably two dozen custom car stereo stores (not Tweeter/Best Buy/etc) which means checking out speakers side-by-side is a bit easier. The competition keeps those little ma & pa stores hungry keeping their prices lower and they're willing to let people audition speakers (in some cases).
I will add that it's very important to spend more time on your subwoofer enclosure than it is picking out your subwoofer. You can take a great subwoofer and make it sound good or OK by poorly mounting it in the wrong sized enclosure.
So petite blondes with meat lover's pizza ... now let's talk beer ... there is but only on true beer on the planet and the rest are just pee water. Without a single doubt in my military mind the only beer worth drinking in Western Australia's Victorian Bitter ... God's green gift to mankind.
You are correct. Hopefully bklusa1 has a listen to these.
Fortunately or unfortunately science as yet to document what makes a good sounding speaker. I too read the reviews from the "golden ears" and other than a very high correlation between ad revenue, expense, and ratings I have noticed that what one reviewer likes another doesn't. I have also noticed that there are speakers I like and don't like that others talk raves about. I often don't do or buy what's popular just because the other kids are doing or buying it.
Many don't like the "Klispch Sound" produced by their highly efficient (science!) horn tweeters and their midranges. Too harsh, too sharp, tinny and other negative terms are used but others love the Klispch.
Bose. They're my personal least favorites. No highs, no lows ... must be Bose. I use to argue against a pair of friends that had Bose 901 Series I or II speakers back in the late 1970's. I had some big old Marantz speakers that I swore out played the triple as expensive 901's. We never played them side-by-side until one weekend party at my place where we had a live band and I used one of my friend's 901's pairs and that stupid EQ along with my speakers to entertain the crowd between sets. The difference was big, like knock you over the head with a 2x4 big. There was no way possible to not notice the difference between the two sets of speakers. My Marantz's were solid and clear ... the Bose were missing the low end completely and were weak on the high end. Side-by-side there was no argument in my mind but still the friend stood by his dogged support of the Bose because certainly he couldn't have spent three times a much and not gotten a good speaker ... now could he?
I highly encourage buyers to shop their speakers side-by-side for this very lesson that I learned at age 17 or 18. The ear is an amazingly easy organ to fool. It doesn't have a good memory and can be tricked. Science does help with measurements of frequency, and amplitude but more subtle differences are hard if not impossible to measure - the "voice" of the speakers. Tastes differ as do speakers. What one person listens for in a speaker is probably not what I listen for.
I don't recall listening to Kickers but probably did ... I have listened to some of JL's 8" offerings and enjoyed them. Here in my little town of 250,000 there are probably two dozen custom car stereo stores (not Tweeter/Best Buy/etc) which means checking out speakers side-by-side is a bit easier. The competition keeps those little ma & pa stores hungry keeping their prices lower and they're willing to let people audition speakers (in some cases).
I will add that it's very important to spend more time on your subwoofer enclosure than it is picking out your subwoofer. You can take a great subwoofer and make it sound good or OK by poorly mounting it in the wrong sized enclosure.
So petite blondes with meat lover's pizza ... now let's talk beer ... there is but only on true beer on the planet and the rest are just pee water. Without a single doubt in my military mind the only beer worth drinking in Western Australia's Victorian Bitter ... God's green gift to mankind.
We'll leave Klipsch out of this as I used to work there and don't feel they make the best speakers per say.
No one likes Bose that knows a thing about Audio .. it just goes to show you the power of marketing.
A+B tests are perfect because the ear has a true acoustic memory of about 10 seconds ... the old saying "You don't know what your missing until you have it ... holds true here" You have to know exactly what your source material is to be able to critique the playback of it.
Personal preferences for speakers are different .. some like bright, some like dull ... some just plain can't hear and have thier speakers make up for it. As a whole (a statitically significant group), science can accurately and repeatably predict what speaker is best.
Ha, Bitter is one of those beers I got introduced to visiting some friends on Coronado ... damn good stuff.
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