My dad owns an auto Z (bad knee) and I know he'd love to bring the car to a track and race it around.

How competetive would it be with a 6MT assuming he uses "manual mode" and shifts correctly?

 

It won't. So do the stock tires. But truck days aren't for competition. It's for fun and to better yourself. So what the heck?

 

Probably a bit slower than a manual...maybe like a second or so. The manumatic is fun, and he can have fun, but it just isnt the same as the 6MT.

BTW, I will never own another manual. 5AT 4lyfe

 

Given equal driver skill, the 5AT is only a second or so off the 6MT pace on a typical track. When I go out with my friends who have 6MTs, they are usually 1-4 seconds per lap faster than me... but they are also better drivers than I am. The one that's 4 seconds faster has 3.9 final drive, lightweight flywheel, big brakes, etc.

One piece of advice... change your transmission fluid more often if you go to the track. Mine was roasted after a few track days - it came out jet black!

Tell your dad to go for it! Have fun!

 

I'm not sure about one second off... The problem with auto is
1) It's slow to change the gear, but you can kinda predict change and start earlier, but

2) If you need to drop 2 or more gears down - it's not like 2 times of 1 gear change time. It's like 1 gear change multiplied by 5 or 10. Because stupid electronics won't understand just two clicks down. It'll ignore second. So you have to click down once, than wait than click down again. And if guessed wait time wrong, than second click will be ignored again... And you have to think about it all the time instead of the track. So you loosing many many seconds. It really sucks.

But if you go on the track and every lap is faster than previous, than you know you are getting better, no matter what other people times are.

 

It definitely takes a different technique to drive the 5AT at the track than the 6MT. You have to brake earlier than a 6MT and be back at neutral throttle again by the turn-in point for a corner - this pre-loads the torque converter, otherwise the torque surge at mid-corner makes things... interesting.

I haven't had any issues with shift time, either up or down. You do have to act slightly ahead of the desired shift time, but after 50,000 miles it really isn't hard to nail the timing perfectly every time. It becomes second nature. It's just like every other car - you get better at adapting your driving style the more time you spend in the seat. The gears are taller on the 5AT so multiple-gear downshifts don't need to happen as frequently. No doubt a 6MT is considerably quicker when multiple-gear downshifts are required though.

I *am* sure about being 1-4 seconds off pace, but this only applies to my group of drivers and tracks. In this case, I'm talking about beginner/intermediate drivers and tracks that only use gears 3-5 in the 6MT and 3-4 in the 5AT. 2 seconds on a 1:20 lap is very different from 2 seconds on a 5:20 lap too. A different group of drivers or a different track will yield different results. Just relating a personal experience as a point of reference. I'm sure the difference could be as big as 30 seconds on a track has huge swings between low and high speed, or with expert-level drivers.

All of this said, the original question was how competitive the 5AT would be vs the 6MT on a track, and I think we can agree that although the 6MT is definitely faster, the 5AT is competitive enough to make it worth getting out there and having a good time. Yes?

 

I autoX my touring model. Yeah, it's heavy and it has the AT. Hey, I got a super deal on this car, but it's not just a garage toy. After two events, I'm just 1.5 seconds under the fully modifed guys, and I'm still on stock tires. Have your dad go out and have a good time. As one of you pointed out, you can spend too much time worrying over gear changes. Concentrate on you smoothness, and just have some FUN.

 

200 milliseconds is slow?

 

Yes, it'll still be fun. Just go.

 

I have had fun on highway road courses, the latest being the tail of the dragon, and found the 5AT to be more than adequate. One nice thing about the 5AT is that the gears are taller so I found myself only needing to use 2nd and 3rd with the occasional 4th for longer straights. This cut down on the need for shifting. I do think the 5AT cars should have upgraded brakes though as it is not as easy to engine brake by dropping a couple of gears. With the VB upgrade I have found that downshifts now occur almost instantly in manual mode, which is a very nice thing for the track. Full auto mode is still a little scary in the twisties as you can not predict when it will shift. I found this out quickly coming out of a turn on the dragon where a rapid unexpected downshift sent the rear end out from under me for a bit. One thing is for sure, it is a different driving style and takes some getting used to as the 5AT does not FEEL the same as driving a manual.

 

Engine braking doesn't do you any good on the track anyway. Engine is there to accelerate car. Brakes are for braking.

What is VB upgrade?

 

Track days are always fun anyways. Like Redline350Z said, have your dad check the tranny fluid regularly.

Otherwise, the main limiting factor will probably be your dad's bad knee. The car can generate lots of G's and it takes considerable leg work to keep still !

The car won't be very competitive, but the driver can make up for a lot of it.

 

http://www.stillen.com/Sportscars_de...d=47326&page=1
problem solved- the vb upgrade

 

I have an auto G, now have 7 track days on it, and have a fair amount of difficulty getting downshifts when I want to. I always have to look at the gear indicator to insure I got the shift (DON'T like taking my eyes off the track), and sometimes see it display the correct gear for about .5 seconds, then go back to the gear I came in at (the 3-2 specifically). This is not good when you're trying to turn in at the end of a heavy brake zone. From what I can tell, the computer looks at vehicle speed and maybe/maybe not engine revs. I've tried left foot braking with a rev match attempt, doesn't seem to make much if any difference. The situation got worse when I went to 17" rubber/smaller O.D. rears. I don't believe a valve body upgrade is the answer to this one.

All that being said - He will be as competitive as anyone out there if he drives the car anywhere close to its capabilities. In my opinion the beginner, novice and intermediate classes are about 80% driver and 20% car. I'm no longer surprised when I lap a 911 or get passed by a Miata (both happened last week). Just deal with it, drive and enjoy!

 

We took my son to CMP with the Mustang club last weekend. He has a 05 G-35 auto... and it did just fine... once we got the downshifting done before "turn-in".

The auto on the 05 "rev matches" when down-shifting and he and a Mustang were pushing each other for " fastest in class" Sunday afternoon. The Stang was faster down the straights, the G-35 would catch him in the twisties!!!

I prefer a "stick shift" but the auto did pretty good !!!

 

We also drive for fun ..Dont forgot that!

 

Just to follow up on my first post....

I'm still competing in B-Stock, and up until last week, I was scorching everybody. Mine is a Silverstone '03 Touring. In autoX, you can use the "heavy" to your advantage. Just think Power Steer, and rotate like the vettes do, you have the power. I've also experimented with running the entire event in 2nd (once off the launch). This did indeed help with control, but I lost about a 1/2 second on the 180's as I couldn't really get the car to rotate as well as before.

The car that now challenges me? I BMW M3 running Yoko V700's. I got within a second of him on a 45 sec course. Now comes my race rubber. I slipped on a set of OEM 18's (best with the anti-loc due to similar rotational weight) with a new set of SuperSport Racers. We're headed for Cincy to run at the big Ford factory this Sunday. This dude's going DOWN!

Most of the Miata guys put it in 2nd and never change a gear. We can do that and still have gobs of power. Now... ain't that Fun!

 

45 seconds runs ?

The car isn't even near being warm after 45 seconds...