Track pads database?
01-06-2011, 05:08 PM
#201
01-06-2011, 06:41 PM
#202
Carbotech pads will not do this...
What do you guys do for events that it may or is raining? I ask because a lot of the dust from these pads is highly corrosive when it gets moist. I have ruined the finish of two sets of front wheels from running a track day or autox when it got wet out at some point. I did clean them when I got home hours later, but it seemingly needed to be done immediately.
My most recent casualty is a nasty corroded layer on my front black RPF1 wheels from the PF97 pad. I am planning on trying the Raybestos ST41s in the front, though I doubt they are any better with respect to this concern.
My most recent casualty is a nasty corroded layer on my front black RPF1 wheels from the PF97 pad. I am planning on trying the Raybestos ST41s in the front, though I doubt they are any better with respect to this concern.
01-07-2011, 08:52 AM
#205
The thing that worries me is that Porterfield tells me that the ST43/41 do not biff up wheels when the dust gets wet. Yes, that appears to be good news minus the fact that they also said - I and appreciate their honesty - that the PF97 pads' dust wouldn't get corrosive when it gets wet. . . which mine did quite horribly.
All you brake experts out there - might there be something else? A different cause to my wheels getting corroded that maybe I'm not thinking of? Data: Other wheels I have had on the car with the same pads did NOT corrode when the brake dust was kept dry. I've always thought that one side (in the front) made more dust than the other. It's only in the front, and I run the same pad, PF97, in the rear, which is probably the biggest thing that is making me believe there is a 3rd factor causing this to happen.
01-07-2011, 09:04 AM
#206
Think about when the wheel finish got damaged (they did not corrode, just a surface finish issue). Was it after a track day before you washed the dust off? What's different between the track day and regular street driving?
Heat.
If you're using your brakes as you should on the track you're seeing brake dust come off the pads at whatever the pad temp is (800 to 1,000F). It does cool down a lot before it hits the wheels but its most likely over 200F. Add to that the heat that gets into the wheels from the brakes and tires and now you've got a wheel that's around 200F with metallic/carbon particles coating it at close to the same temp. Over time the heat issue alone will cause the clear coat (or powder coat) to be damaged.
In addition, you have heat accelerating the chemical reaction between the H2O and the pad dust. The rate of oxidation increases significantly in the presence of water.
Heat.
If you're using your brakes as you should on the track you're seeing brake dust come off the pads at whatever the pad temp is (800 to 1,000F). It does cool down a lot before it hits the wheels but its most likely over 200F. Add to that the heat that gets into the wheels from the brakes and tires and now you've got a wheel that's around 200F with metallic/carbon particles coating it at close to the same temp. Over time the heat issue alone will cause the clear coat (or powder coat) to be damaged.
In addition, you have heat accelerating the chemical reaction between the H2O and the pad dust. The rate of oxidation increases significantly in the presence of water.
Last edited by betamotorsports; 01-07-2011 at 09:06 AM.
03-12-2011, 04:43 AM
#208
Manufacturer: Hawk
Compound: HT10
Operating temperature range: 200 - 1400
Coefficient of friction: not known
Brake system: 2006 OEM non-Brembo
Application: Autox, track, very little street
Price paid: $388.00 (fronts custom cut from an AP caliper application)
Durability:
Rotors friendliness: On speaking terms but not really friends
General impressions:
First corner on the track give a little extra room because these pads need some heat. After that they bite well, great modulation, and great release. Pretty easy to get into the front ABS if you're sloppy with brake pedal application. You can very easily hold whatever decel rate you choose and can make small adjustments without really thinking about it. Don't know about wear yet but the pads look unused after 2 hours of track time.
On the street these pads are very dusty and noisy.
UPDATE: Still holding up well and the rotors are blue, but not cut down. 8 hours of track time, 2 autocrosses, and 2 autocross practices. Very nice modulation on the track.
Compound: HT10
Operating temperature range: 200 - 1400
Coefficient of friction: not known
Brake system: 2006 OEM non-Brembo
Application: Autox, track, very little street
Price paid: $388.00 (fronts custom cut from an AP caliper application)
Durability:
Rotors friendliness: On speaking terms but not really friends
General impressions:
First corner on the track give a little extra room because these pads need some heat. After that they bite well, great modulation, and great release. Pretty easy to get into the front ABS if you're sloppy with brake pedal application. You can very easily hold whatever decel rate you choose and can make small adjustments without really thinking about it. Don't know about wear yet but the pads look unused after 2 hours of track time.
On the street these pads are very dusty and noisy.
UPDATE: Still holding up well and the rotors are blue, but not cut down. 8 hours of track time, 2 autocrosses, and 2 autocross practices. Very nice modulation on the track.
I just found out Hawk discontinued the HT-10's for the front??
Does anyone know what their replacing them with? I had used these last season with my oem brakes now im looking at pads for Brembo's which I got recently
04-14-2011, 04:18 PM
#210
Manufacturer: Carbotech
Compound: RP2 *NEW*
Operating temperature range: not sure, but full race pad
Coefficient of friction: unknown
Brake system: OEM Brembo
Application: Full race pad for heavy car like the Z and designed for Enduros
Price paid: <300$
Durability: they don't stop quite as hard as the XP10/12, but last twice as long
Rotors friendliness: they don't wear them out, but the temps are so high the rotors get the standard stress cracks pretty quickly in full race conditions.
Note: I run stock style Centric Premium Blanks
Compound: RP2 *NEW*
Operating temperature range: not sure, but full race pad
Coefficient of friction: unknown
Brake system: OEM Brembo
Application: Full race pad for heavy car like the Z and designed for Enduros
Price paid: <300$
Durability: they don't stop quite as hard as the XP10/12, but last twice as long
Rotors friendliness: they don't wear them out, but the temps are so high the rotors get the standard stress cracks pretty quickly in full race conditions.
Note: I run stock style Centric Premium Blanks
Last edited by laze1; 04-14-2011 at 05:06 PM.
08-08-2011, 10:32 PM
#213
Nice to see the same street/track pads i used on my integra: AXXIS ULTIMATES
AND my track only pads: Cobalts spec VR's and Gt's
are getting good reviews for the Z
Great Thread!
AND my track only pads: Cobalts spec VR's and Gt's
are getting good reviews for the Z
Great Thread!
08-09-2011, 07:31 AM
#214
Manufacturer: EBC
Compound: Blue Stuff
Operating temperature range: Up to 1400F
Coefficient of friction: .45u
Brake system: OEM 2005 - No additional venting
Application: Supposedly, Full race pad for heavier cars
Price paid: $300 all four
Durability: Look solid, after one event at BW CCW13 - roughly 1-2 mm wear -expecting about 2 more track days on them. (Intermediate driver)
Rotors friendliness: OK
Notes: I haven't faded them yet but I did notice they don't have the initial bite that a Hawk pad does. They take heat very well seemingly getting better and better through the session. They are easy to modulate but are a touch on the wood pedal side (just a little) possibly due to the low initial bite. Dusting is tough to see on my black wheels but doesn't seem bad. Biggest surprise... dead silent and completely streetable, I guessing the lack of noise mostly due to the "stick-on" self adhesive pad shims. Decent bite at ambient air temps make them a usable option on the road. But I'm still not completly sold on them being this good all around (race pad that doesn't act like a race pad) however, I think next time out at CA Speedway will expose any deficiencies in the heat handling abilities of these pads. (Edit: Pads held up well to ACS with no fade).
Overall: Its a good & cheap track pad that can easily be driven on the road with no noise. Great for beginners to intermediate drivers, however an advanced intermediate or advanced driver may want a better pedal feel out of their pad at the expense of the street-ability.
Compound: Blue Stuff
Operating temperature range: Up to 1400F
Coefficient of friction: .45u
Brake system: OEM 2005 - No additional venting
Application: Supposedly, Full race pad for heavier cars
Price paid: $300 all four
Durability: Look solid, after one event at BW CCW13 - roughly 1-2 mm wear -expecting about 2 more track days on them. (Intermediate driver)
Rotors friendliness: OK
Notes: I haven't faded them yet but I did notice they don't have the initial bite that a Hawk pad does. They take heat very well seemingly getting better and better through the session. They are easy to modulate but are a touch on the wood pedal side (just a little) possibly due to the low initial bite. Dusting is tough to see on my black wheels but doesn't seem bad. Biggest surprise... dead silent and completely streetable, I guessing the lack of noise mostly due to the "stick-on" self adhesive pad shims. Decent bite at ambient air temps make them a usable option on the road. But I'm still not completly sold on them being this good all around (race pad that doesn't act like a race pad) however, I think next time out at CA Speedway will expose any deficiencies in the heat handling abilities of these pads. (Edit: Pads held up well to ACS with no fade).
Overall: Its a good & cheap track pad that can easily be driven on the road with no noise. Great for beginners to intermediate drivers, however an advanced intermediate or advanced driver may want a better pedal feel out of their pad at the expense of the street-ability.
Last edited by Zazz93; 08-15-2011 at 05:38 AM. Reason: Update
04-28-2012, 12:22 PM
#215
Manufacturer: EBC
Compound: Yellowstuff
Operating temperature range: 0-900
Coefficient of friction: .31
Brake system: OEM non-Brembo
Price paid: Forgot. Cheaper than anything comparable.
Durability: Very Good
Rotors friendliness: Fair
General impressions:
First, EBC calls these 'full race' pads but recommends them for low HP, low weight cars. Second, EBC's website has a lot of contradictory data and recommendations.
These pads are very good double duty pads. They work same as OEM pads even when ambient temps are well below freezing. The make no more noise than OEM. They do make a lot of dust.
I've had two sets. One on a G35. One track day with new slotted rotors. No fade. Minimal wear. Sold that car.
Current set has been through about four HPDE track days at a track that is very hard on brakes (CMP). I'd say they've got at least one more track day on them. Slight scoring present on old (60k mile) OEM rotors. I've had a hint of fade late in some 25-30 minute sessions. Can't say how they compare to anything else because they are the only thing I've ever used on the track.
If you need a set of cheap-ish pads to run on the street and track I think these make reasonable compromises. I will be looking to a set of Carbotechs next. Just have to decide which ones.
Update 6-7-12: When I took these pads off last week they were toast (thin and crumbling) and would not have lasted for another track day. So 4 track days but no more.
Compound: Yellowstuff
Operating temperature range: 0-900
Coefficient of friction: .31
Brake system: OEM non-Brembo
Price paid: Forgot. Cheaper than anything comparable.
Durability: Very Good
Rotors friendliness: Fair
General impressions:
First, EBC calls these 'full race' pads but recommends them for low HP, low weight cars. Second, EBC's website has a lot of contradictory data and recommendations.
These pads are very good double duty pads. They work same as OEM pads even when ambient temps are well below freezing. The make no more noise than OEM. They do make a lot of dust.
I've had two sets. One on a G35. One track day with new slotted rotors. No fade. Minimal wear. Sold that car.
Current set has been through about four HPDE track days at a track that is very hard on brakes (CMP). I'd say they've got at least one more track day on them. Slight scoring present on old (60k mile) OEM rotors. I've had a hint of fade late in some 25-30 minute sessions. Can't say how they compare to anything else because they are the only thing I've ever used on the track.
If you need a set of cheap-ish pads to run on the street and track I think these make reasonable compromises. I will be looking to a set of Carbotechs next. Just have to decide which ones.
Update 6-7-12: When I took these pads off last week they were toast (thin and crumbling) and would not have lasted for another track day. So 4 track days but no more.
Last edited by N80; 06-07-2012 at 12:43 PM.
06-07-2012, 01:03 PM
#216
Manufacturer: Carbotech
Compound: XP10 front/ XP8 rear (as recommended by Carbotech via email)
Operating temperature range:
Coefficient of friction:
Brake system: OEM non-Brembo
Use: HPDE
Price paid: Forgot. $300+
Durability: Very Good
Rotors friendliness: Very good
General impressions:
The only thing I can compare to is EBC Yellowstuff. The Carbotechs have dramatically more initial bite. So much so that it took me a while to get used to it. Took me a while to 'trust' them but once I did I was able to brake much later.
No fade, even with 30+ minute sessions on a very brake demanding track (CMP).
I was on 265/40/18 Hankook V12 evos on all four and these pads did not overwhelm the tires. ABS only kicked in when I expected it to.
I don't have enough experience to say much about 'modulation' but I had no trouble or unusual response during the mid or late part of braking. Had some trouble with trail braking but that was just a learning curve type thing, not the brakes.
Used them with new blank rotors and rotors look fine after two days with 2 hours of track time each day. Just pulled the pads off yesterday and they look great. Modest wear, no chunking or crumbling.
They also work perfectly fine for daily driving in warm weather but they do squeal a lot.
Compound: XP10 front/ XP8 rear (as recommended by Carbotech via email)
Operating temperature range:
Coefficient of friction:
Brake system: OEM non-Brembo
Use: HPDE
Price paid: Forgot. $300+
Durability: Very Good
Rotors friendliness: Very good
General impressions:
The only thing I can compare to is EBC Yellowstuff. The Carbotechs have dramatically more initial bite. So much so that it took me a while to get used to it. Took me a while to 'trust' them but once I did I was able to brake much later.
No fade, even with 30+ minute sessions on a very brake demanding track (CMP).
I was on 265/40/18 Hankook V12 evos on all four and these pads did not overwhelm the tires. ABS only kicked in when I expected it to.
I don't have enough experience to say much about 'modulation' but I had no trouble or unusual response during the mid or late part of braking. Had some trouble with trail braking but that was just a learning curve type thing, not the brakes.
Used them with new blank rotors and rotors look fine after two days with 2 hours of track time each day. Just pulled the pads off yesterday and they look great. Modest wear, no chunking or crumbling.
They also work perfectly fine for daily driving in warm weather but they do squeal a lot.
11-27-2012, 04:22 PM
#217
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Quick question about pads. Currently I have XP10 F XP8 R, they are getting slight fade at the track..
I want to try ST45 F ST43 R but I hear they are corrosive? and ruin your wheels?
there is XP12 too but I dont want to deal with anymore brake fade.
I do not have any ducting but in the next few weeks I will be putting brake ducts on my car..
maybe that's also slightly a cause of the fade?
I want to try ST45 F ST43 R but I hear they are corrosive? and ruin your wheels?
there is XP12 too but I dont want to deal with anymore brake fade.
I do not have any ducting but in the next few weeks I will be putting brake ducts on my car..
maybe that's also slightly a cause of the fade?
11-27-2012, 06:03 PM
#219
I've had XP-10s pouring smoke after a session on the track but still had no fade while on track.
I've been tempted to try the XP-12s on front but I'm afraid they would be too grabby since I'm still currently on street tires. I think that too much brake could be about as much fun as too little.
I've been tempted to try the XP-12s on front but I'm afraid they would be too grabby since I'm still currently on street tires. I think that too much brake could be about as much fun as too little.
11-27-2012, 07:07 PM
#220
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I'm on street tires too (RS3)
I have some xp10 with half thickness in my room, maybe I'll go to the track after my ducts and do a session on them and see if the ducts help out.
I have some xp10 with half thickness in my room, maybe I'll go to the track after my ducts and do a session on them and see if the ducts help out.