They are nearly done with a 4km track over here and I just wanted to ask since alot of u go on tracks have a performance brake system and if I realy need it on such a track? what kind is good to have with a reasonable price?
thanks...

 

It requires a bit more information, including what do you have on the car now, and what is the configuration of the track. But while we wait to get some more information from you on those points, let's get started with what we do know.

the car is heavy and in general the braking system is not adequate in stock form to handle medium to hard driving on most race courses for more than a couple of laps.

therefore, it is always adviseable to upgrade your brake lines to braided stainless steel, and to flush out your old brake fluid and replace it with a high grade synthetic racing brake fluid rated DOT-4, such as Motul 600 or ATE Super Blue. Then, you should consider replacing the brake pads with a pad that can handle the higher temperatures of sustained maximum braking effort, like a Ferrodo or any of a number of other excellent high performance pads that you can search out on this forum and others.

Now, to the issue of whether you need a big brake kit and if so, which one?
My recommendation would be to make the above cost effective and modest modifications first, and see how it goes. if the brakes overheat and fade on you, then you are going to need more braking capacity, and the only way to get that will be to upgrade your rotors/calipers. you may want to consider only upgrading the fronts, since that is where about 70-80% of the braking action is taking place anyway, and that will save a lot of money. But you can decide that later. As to what system to get, there are several outstanding ones available, including of course AP Racing, Brembo, StopTech and Wilwood, just to mention four that you should read and research about. I think that a two front wheel upgrade from StopTech or Wilwood will be your most cost effective upgrade if you decide to go that route. If however you are driving a FI car with 400+whp and thus hitting higher speeds at your initial braking point, braking very hard and driving very fast, you may need to go with a four wheel kit, and may want to consider going to AP Racing or Brembo (owned by same company now, btw).

The track configuration is important. If the track is characterized by having its fastest straights end in sharp 90 degree or hairpin turns, then the amount of speed you have to drop is great, the heat buildup from that slowing is great, and the rotors may not have time to cool down before their next hard brake. the rotors will heat increasingly with each lap, the calipers will heat, and the fluid will heat, and you may have problems with the caliper piston seals/boots searing, brake fluid boiling, rotors heat soaking, pads glazing and spalling, etc etc.

In that regard, a track like California Speedway is brutal on brakes, while Willow Springs International (big course) is not. I am pretty sure that if the configuration was like WSI with long fast sections and a few high speed turns, that you would be fine with upgrading lines, fluid and pads, but that if the configuration was like CS you would need to go with a full four wheel BBK.

Hope that helps you get started in the right direction.

 

I realy cant thank you enough for such a great write up lots of great info i have now, regarding the track I havn't seen it yet its ment to be runing mid of next month so i cant be 100% sure and it about 1200 km from where i am so the drive to check it out is about a good 9 hours drive, how ever the guys that live there had seen it and told me it has 2 streches and a lot of curves, but I guess the best way is to go the way u explained it start by the oil lines and the pads and then see how ever I am sure I need the 4 sets fully installed on my car as am runing 600+ whp but I shale try and see...
Thanks again for the great help and info.

 

Zowie, 600 rwhp is a lot of power, if you can hook that up, and in the long straights you will, your baby will really be zooming. Almost certainly you will need a BBK, because you will be running, I assume, significantly bigger (wider) tires, and those should be providing even greater grip. And thus greater ability to apply braking and thus more heat to the system. If you can obtain them, run a DOT-R tire (Toyo RA-1, Nitto NT-01, Michelin Pilot Cup Sport, Hoosier, etc.)

As you undoubtedly know, it is the tires that stop, accelerate, and turn the car. So another way to analyze the brake and other needs is to start with the tires, and work your analysis "backwards".

On the brakes....they stop the wheel from turning, but it is the grip interface between the tire and the road surface that actually slows or stops the car. The more grip, the better you can slow and stop, and that means the more braking force you can apply. More braking force means greater demand to your calipers, pads, fluid and rotors. Increasing the size of the rotors (though it does have some negative impact due to increasing the amount of unsprung weight) increases the available mass for absorption of heat. Some ducting of air to the rotors to cool them will help with the exchange of heat off the rotors. Given the high ambient air temps you will have from time to time, probably a good idea. Going with lighter wheels also helps. Note of caution: If you go to a BBK, with something like a 14.25" rotor diameter, you will almost certainly require a 18" diameter wheel to get clearance for the calipers. I am running the Enkei NT03+M in 9.5 inch F and 10.5 inch rear rim widths, and they clear fine. Tire size is 275/35F and 315/30R (on a G35). I adjust the tune and the boost for different tracks, but typically do not go higher than about 525rwhp and 530 lb/ft torque, because the utility of going with more power is outweighed by other factors. In any event you will have more than enough grunt to be having an incredibly good time on even the fastest layout.

Good luck, be safe, and if sometime there is a track map that you can share, I am sure many of us would love to see it. Take an in car video of some of your laps if you can and post them up on youtube or some other place and we can get really excited!!

Cheers,

 

I do have wide rimes and big tieres so I'm fine on this one I have 275/35/19 continental in the back and I have 245/35/19 in the front michlen SP. and they grip like hell but I know what you mean about having a big break kit I thought you read my signiture thats y I assumed that you know how much power I have, but yes again I thank you for the advice and I know I know to push
600+ I need a huge break kit and I think thats what i'm going for.

 

Like the infamous Mr. Magoo and his failing eyesight, I did not read the sig, just the post. Oops.
If you run the track very often, you will want a set of 18's. The bigger diameter wheels at 19" weigh more, but more importantly push too much of the weight to the outside circumference of the wheel/tire combination. In addition they reduce the available amount of sidewall on the tire too much for optimum handling. Not a big deal, but definitely a factor.
If you have adjustable front upper control arms, try 3 degrees negative camber. if you don't have them, strongly recommend you get a good set.
Have a great time!!!

 

Ed, well written and very informative! Always good to see good solid tech info on here.

 

Eagle1 I rethank you again for such a great informative write up and I will get as much of the stuff that u recomended as much as my budget helps me.

 

Silver... have you done any road course track stuff before?

As far as the track, does it have a name? Can you give us a location of any sort?

 

I'm not sure If meat Auto cross by road cross...
if u mean auto cross then yes and i won the 2007 but u dont need great break for that.
If not plz explain to me what do u mena by road cross so I can answer ur question.
The Track name is AL REAM its in Saudi in Riyadh.
This is the 1st track in the whole country. we have Drag where i live and its the only 1 in the country as well...
Auto cross ia done in the drag Huge parking with plastic cones leading showing u the track directions

 

I just meant have you had that beast on a high-speed circuit before (Road-course)?

The Auto-Cross experience will certainly benefit you with car control. I agree that your car does need a BBK (I'll let the other guys get into which ones and why). My concern is taking a car out with that kind power for your first time on a racetrack.

 

Now I understand :-) sorry i didnt know what u ment 1st...
any way the answer is no I havn't tryied my car on such a power on track befor actualy I have never been on a track with my Z at all coz the track that i'm telling u about will be ready in a month time thats y i'm trying to get my car ready, But the good news is that I can taim that beast down to 360 whp. with my boost controller which is ok to get used to the track I guess.

 

Silver:
Your thoughts on approaching this are correct. You will be well served to dial the power down to 360-400rwhp for your initial experiences. The key is to work on identifying your optimum driving line, and the apex point of each corner, then squeezing on the power as you track out from corner apex so that on exit from the corner you are at the fastest exit speed. Then you can focus on the initial braking point, turn in point for corner entry, and lastly a smooth transition from corner entry through the midcorner section. Quickly negotiating a road course track is more dependent on your suspension and handling modifications, and driver skill, than it is on huge amounts of power. (Not that power does not help, it does help, but if you are spinning the wheels then you are not going forward as fast as you can, and actually slowing down!)
Do you have a limited slip differential in the rear? This is a significant aid in getting power down earlier on corner exit. If you don't, then I would suggest you read up and research some offerings in that arena, such as a mechanical clutch type, the carbon type, and the torsion sensing ("torsen") type like Quaife. The other mod for a road racing car is the lightweight flywheel and clutch which will help you immensely with matching revs on downshifting , and of course holding the huge power....a triple carbon disc set up with about a 10 pound flywheel is very nifty, though a bit of a pain in traffic because of its sensitivity.
Having been to Riyadh a few years ago, I can imagine that this facility will be popular. There may even be some topo challenges, though I suspect this is likely to be a relatively flat track. If you can get us a track map or even better photos, or a website to visit, we might be able to help you more.
If at some point you can get to a driving school for race driver training, you will probably learn more in a three day course than you can imagine. I know there are some good ones in the UK. Of course we have several here in the US but that is half the way around the world for you.
Until you get the chance to go to school, there are two books worth reading on driving and you can buy both on Amazon.com
The first one is by Alan Johnson, title Driving in Competition. It is small, very concise, good diagrams, and truly a little gem of a book.
The second is a bit more complex and much longer, but excellent, and it is the Skip Barber school book, I think by Carlos Lopez, titled Going Faster. I would recommend getting both and reading the Johnson book first.

When you start to drive a track, see if you can go with a buddy. That what you can help each other out with tools and supplies, changing tires, talking about your experience, and learning as much as you can as safely as you can. The key is smooth=fast. Technique and focus are what counts, not bravado.

Good luck and safe motoring!

Ed

 

I have a tripple plate carbonetics clutch with a carbon fiber fly wheel and my LSD is on the way as well as for the suspention, the only thing thats missing on the car is the brake kit.

 

That is an excellent clutch and flywheel, you are in great shape.

Any maps of the track, or websites that have pictures?

 

Nope unfortunatly.. I would love to see it... My friends told me all I know which is not much (2 stretches and the rest is curvs and its 4km)

 

Well then, we will look forward to getting the full description after you have the opportunity to run it. Perhaps with some in car video!
Good luck.

 

Thanx for all the help and yes there will be videos to see for sure :-)