HPDE and insurance
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 804
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From: Las Vegas, NV
NY Times on insurance at track events
Sunday's New York Times ran this article about insurance companies disallowing coverage for HPDE. This is probably not news to most of us, but it's interesting to see coverage of HPDE in the mainstream media.
So the industry began to add a new exclusion to its policies in the late 1990s, with most companies adding it within the last few years. Instead of trying to define racing, policies exclude damage at any location that could accommodate racing, timed or not. That eliminated coverage during high-performance driving schools and track days.
Chris Soignier of Austin, Tex., will not be taking his Porsche Cayman to the track, which he had done with his previous cars. When he read his renewal notice from Progressive Insurance last November, he found that the Cayman was not covered on the track.
“I don’t feel like I’m that much at risk, but the magnitude of the loss is too great for me to be comfortable,” he said.
Not all drivers got word of the change, or, like Mr. Soignier, read their new policy. Also, because insurance is regulated by the state, exemptions in Michigan, for example, may differ from those in California.
To make matters worse, asking insurers to clarify coverage could result in a nasty surprise. Mike Barr, a dentist from Palm Beach, Fla., called the insurer USAA to see if his policy covered his Subaru WRX STi on the track.
“Some months later I got a letter from USAA saying they were going to discontinue coverage,” he said.” “They dropped me because I asked about” performance driving schools. “They confirmed it verbally when I called to inquire further.” A USAA spokesman said Dr. Barr was canceled for “several reasons,” but would not elaborate.
Chris Soignier of Austin, Tex., will not be taking his Porsche Cayman to the track, which he had done with his previous cars. When he read his renewal notice from Progressive Insurance last November, he found that the Cayman was not covered on the track.
“I don’t feel like I’m that much at risk, but the magnitude of the loss is too great for me to be comfortable,” he said.
Not all drivers got word of the change, or, like Mr. Soignier, read their new policy. Also, because insurance is regulated by the state, exemptions in Michigan, for example, may differ from those in California.
To make matters worse, asking insurers to clarify coverage could result in a nasty surprise. Mike Barr, a dentist from Palm Beach, Fla., called the insurer USAA to see if his policy covered his Subaru WRX STi on the track.
“Some months later I got a letter from USAA saying they were going to discontinue coverage,” he said.” “They dropped me because I asked about” performance driving schools. “They confirmed it verbally when I called to inquire further.” A USAA spokesman said Dr. Barr was canceled for “several reasons,” but would not elaborate.
No coverage at a track is common, proving the car was at the track is another thing if you wreck it. My agency had to pay for a Ford GT that got wrecked at the track in Sebring, the tires were worn on one side and we knew the car was there, but could not prove it was wrecked there so we ate the car.
Sucks. I tried to take my car to the track last night and a brand new mustang convertible hit the wall. Woman driver that is speculated to have been driving her BF or husband's car.
Long story short, destroyed the car and she drove it off the track and ruined the track, so no times for me
Long story short, destroyed the car and she drove it off the track and ruined the track, so no times for me
I have no sympathy for the insurance companies any more. A couple of years ago I was privey to quarterly reports from one of the top insurance companies and their NET PROFITS were averaging 250 million per quarter..... boo hoo for the poor insurance companies.
Ryan this is in no way directed towards you or your agency. You're a stand up guy.
Ryan this is in no way directed towards you or your agency. You're a stand up guy.
Thanks coach, Im selling the Z if you know anyone who wants it!
Insurance companies work on small margins compared to most other industries out there, if Nationwide ( the company I work for ) clears 5 to 10 cents on the dollar of premium they are a very happy company. Around half of the premium I generate as an agency goes to claims.
Insurance companies work on small margins compared to most other industries out there, if Nationwide ( the company I work for ) clears 5 to 10 cents on the dollar of premium they are a very happy company. Around half of the premium I generate as an agency goes to claims.
No coverage at a track is common, proving the car was at the track is another thing if you wreck it. My agency had to pay for a Ford GT that got wrecked at the track in Sebring, the tires were worn on one side and we knew the car was there, but could not prove it was wrecked there so we ate the car.
Driver: I want to file a claim, my car was totalled.
Ins: Sure, what's the police accident report #
Driver: I don't have one.
Ins: Where did this accident occur?
Driver: In my driveway.
An accident has either got to be on the public roads or on private property. If it's on a public road, then an accident report would almost certainly be required. If it was on private property, certainly the owner would have to identify where and allow the ins co to investigate, right.
How is that possible?
Driver: I want to file a claim, my car was totalled.
Ins: Sure, what's the police accident report #
Driver: I don't have one.
Ins: Where did this accident occur?
Driver: In my driveway.
An accident has either got to be on the public roads or on private property. If it's on a public road, then an accident report would almost certainly be required. If it was on private property, certainly the owner would have to identify where and allow the ins co to investigate, right.
Driver: I want to file a claim, my car was totalled.
Ins: Sure, what's the police accident report #
Driver: I don't have one.
Ins: Where did this accident occur?
Driver: In my driveway.
An accident has either got to be on the public roads or on private property. If it's on a public road, then an accident report would almost certainly be required. If it was on private property, certainly the owner would have to identify where and allow the ins co to investigate, right.
You would think so, but many one car collision claims never have a report. " I was driving late last night and hit a deer,tree, whatever and didnt get a report" is common, no one calls the police on themselves. If you can drive or get the car away from the track, its very hard to prove.
Last edited by danisr1; Oct 22, 2008 at 09:05 AM.
You would think so, but many one car collision claims never have a report. " I was driving late last night and hit a deer,tree, whatever and didnt get a report" is common, no one calls the police on themselves. If you can drive or get the car away from the track, its very hard to prove.
If it's on a public road, then an accident report would almost certainly be required.
350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
There are a few bright spots in this..
1) in some states (like NC) it's still required that the insurance company covers the damage no matter where the accident occured. That doesn't mean they can't drop you afterwards though. Most don't, but raise your premiums by quite a bit.
2) Several companies have seen this gap and have begun to offer suppliments for HPDE and competition events. It's proven to be quite a niche for them.
1) in some states (like NC) it's still required that the insurance company covers the damage no matter where the accident occured. That doesn't mean they can't drop you afterwards though. Most don't, but raise your premiums by quite a bit.
2) Several companies have seen this gap and have begun to offer suppliments for HPDE and competition events. It's proven to be quite a niche for them.
A lot of Insurance companies now have the body shop do most of the work and the adjustor just checks the price breakdown and cuts a check.
Last edited by danisr1; Oct 23, 2008 at 07:10 AM.
You would think so, but many one car collision claims never have a report. " I was driving late last night and hit a deer,tree, whatever and didnt get a report" is common, no one calls the police on themselves. If you can drive or get the car away from the track, its very hard to prove.
the insurance company paid for the damages, and then dropped me
'NJ is an at-fault state' ...i.e. 'if it isn't someone else's fault, it's yours.
insurance
so i was wondering if anyone knew how to insure a car with an extensive amount of work done to it. im building my car for the track, my insurance company will only cover the blue book of the car. ive already invested about 20000 into the car. im getting it cages, harnessed, seats, nets and so on. i have to have full coverage for the loan. where do i get insurance for this, need help. thanks
If your talking about "track" coverage, the plans I have seen the deductible costs enough to buy two new 350z's.
Some events offer track coverage per event, I think Triangle Z/Tarheel Sports Car club has it available.
If your worried about stuffing it and being out of $$$, then maybe look into getting a cheaper track/race car.
Some events offer track coverage per event, I think Triangle Z/Tarheel Sports Car club has it available.
If your worried about stuffing it and being out of $$$, then maybe look into getting a cheaper track/race car.
Last edited by Axelerate; Jan 22, 2009 at 05:25 PM.
At this point, normal insurance pretty much excludes coverage for anything that happens on a racing surface, i.e. track. You might be able to find some special coverage insurance.
Use the "search this forum" link at the top of the Autocross/Road forum and search on "insurance" and you'll see several threads that have discussed the lack of availability as of late.
Use the "search this forum" link at the top of the Autocross/Road forum and search on "insurance" and you'll see several threads that have discussed the lack of availability as of late.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: New Bern, NC
Find yourself a good insurance broker ... normal street policies won't cover you on or off the track for most of your upgrades (if any.) But... if you can find a broker who'll be able to search and negotiate coverages for you, it can be done. You WILL pay dearly for it, both in premiums and deductibles, but unfortunately thats kinda the price you gotta pay.
There are specialty insurers like Hagerty who do show cars, classics, exotics, and collectibles, but there are almost always vehicle age limits and mileage limits.
As was mentioned... if your main concern is track events, Lockton-Affinity has been running a program for about 6-8 months now that covers HPDE type events. Search for Lockton-Affinity HPDE and you should find it easily. Each club/event has to be approved (though thats not very hard) and it is a PER-event covereage, but it is agreed-upon value, and the deductible and rate is reasonable from what I've seen. One of the best things about it, is that it not only covers you, it also covers a co-driver and/or an instructor who may be driving the car.
There are specialty insurers like Hagerty who do show cars, classics, exotics, and collectibles, but there are almost always vehicle age limits and mileage limits.
As was mentioned... if your main concern is track events, Lockton-Affinity has been running a program for about 6-8 months now that covers HPDE type events. Search for Lockton-Affinity HPDE and you should find it easily. Each club/event has to be approved (though thats not very hard) and it is a PER-event covereage, but it is agreed-upon value, and the deductible and rate is reasonable from what I've seen. One of the best things about it, is that it not only covers you, it also covers a co-driver and/or an instructor who may be driving the car.
I think he might be looking for the "add-ons" to be covered.
Talk to your agent about the "aftermarket parts" you have installed and you'll get a rider on your policy that will cover this stuff. It'll cost you obviously.
Talk to your agent about the "aftermarket parts" you have installed and you'll get a rider on your policy that will cover this stuff. It'll cost you obviously.