GodISmE

Car: 2008 HR, manual gearbox, EU premium pack

Current specification:
26 raw oil cooler, brake air ducts, Stoptech SS brake lines, lightweight vented hood, 380rs gas pedal, SPC upper front arms, Hotchkis sway bars, Stance SuperSport full coilovers, 14/9kg Swift springs, Enkei RPF-1 9,5''/10,5'", bucket seats, harness bar, 5 point Sabelt, 255/35/18 Toyo R888 and 265/35/18 Avon ZZR.

Current setup:
-3/-2,5 camber, 0,10/0,20 total toe in. Sway bar: front 2nd hole, rear 3rd hole.
Stock engine, exhaust, brakes, drivetrain and weight (for now)

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Hi all, I've just bought a 2008 350z, EU version with manual gearbox. I want to eventually use it only as a track car, with Nordschleife track days being my number 1 event (once or twice a year). I generally know how to modify cars but I've never owned a 350z before, so I'm looking for the best value for money options.

Below is my plan for the mods, please can you advise exactly which option to go for and why. If some of it has already been covered on this forum (but only related to building a track car), please just post a link to the thread.
1. Weight reduction - anything close to 1,300kg (2866 lbs) would be great. I'm slightly concerned with the car balance though, knowing that the front is already quite heavy. Should I just go for it, throw everything unnecessary out and then try to tackle any unwanted oversteer/understeer with the set up? Is that approach ok in the Z? Is it doable?
2. Engine - I want to leave it NA for now. What can I do to add some power apart from ECU remapping? I already know that there is a problem with oil temperature running high on a track so some extra cooling is needed. What about spark plugs? I'm really no expert here, please advise.
3. Suspension - coilover system is a must I think. Which one? What about the rubber bushings, do I need to replace all of them with polyurethane ones? What about sway bars? Do I need them in this car? Which ones to get?
4. Drivetrain - definitely throwing out the dual mass flywheel at some point it time. Which light single mass flywheel is best for this car and do I also need to get a stronger clutch?
5. Tires and rims - no idea here. Which option would be best for 5-10 track day events a year? Will I need spacers even with wider wheels?
6. Intake - probably CAI. Any suggestions? I'm also thinking about making a custom one in a local shop - would that be ok? Do I need to modify the intake manifold?
7. Exhaust and headers - plug&play system or go custom in a local shop? I read somewhere that removing cats completely isn't the best option. Is it? It can be loud as hell, I don't care
8. Brakes - I heard that the stock Brembos are too weak and small and that additional cooling is needed. Will the ones from 370z do? Which rotors/pads do you recommend? Braided SS lines also needed?
9. Bucket seats and sport steering wheel - I suppose this one is a matter of taste but maybe you have some recommendations?

Have I missed anything?

dboyzalter

iTrader: (3)

Wtf man use the search function and you will find everything you will ever want to know about the 350z... If you dont have a lot of money to spend and you want a specific track rig you could probably build a sick Miata for whatever your Z is worth.

Z parts are not that cheap, but in stock form it should be fine.

2900 lbs you will need to strip the car down...

Engine for 300whp NA expect to drop some major coin

Suspension ummm you can change it if you want, sway bars too, the ones in the car work fine though...

Drivetrain ????

Tires and wheels, if you get the right offset you wont need spacers.. Is it a base model or track or ?

Intake... Good luck improving on what Nissan did...

Same with exhaust and headers... All available if you want to buy it... For a nice chunk of change you can get an awesome lightweight ti system.

Brakes... Nothing wrong with stock brembos if you have them I would keep them and be happy about it.

Seats and steering wheel, car comes with some that are nice...

You have missed the hour's and hour's of research needed to make informed decisions on what you should get.

GodISmE

Well, hopefully someone here has more experience with modding these cars for race tracks, knows the answers and wants to help.
Btw. Money is not that big of a problem, I just want to spend it wisely and on the most significant mods first.

Sleepiedaze

iTrader: (3)

leave it stock. go to the track. 2 years stock with at least 10 track days under your belt and you will start to figure out what you need to change to be competitive and faster.

travlee

iTrader: (8)

go drive the car and have fun. all the questions you asked have been answered many times over the 13 years (8 in your exact case) that the car has been out

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

After racing wheel-to-wheel in the Z33 for eight years (seven using an HR), I think I've got a pretty idea about what the car needs. Keep in mind that most of my mods have been limited to what the sanctioning body (SCCA and NASA) allow, but even so, by following the rules they kept costs down. I'd also agree that if you haven't got a lot of experience with driving the Z at the track (Nordschleife or another), it would be a good idea to do at least a few runs in the car so you understand how the car was tuned from the factory.

That said, here's my take (I don't have time to do links; no one does):

1. Weight reduction - I don't know what the EU Z33s weigh, but anything under 3K pounds is a plus. You'll likely want to corner weight the car later for balance, but don't worry about doing anything other than deleting the heavier items that are non-essential. DON'T take out the heater core and fans, as those items are useful in the rain. And don't start hacking up the metal tray behind the driver when you start, unless you are installing a roll cage to compensate for the lack of stiffness.
2. Engine - Your plan to leave it NA is the correct one. I'd go with UpRev's Osiris for remapping and yes, add an oil cooler up front. Stay with the NGK/ND OEM spark plugs, anything else really doesn't help your performance.
3. Suspension - Get a good set of adjustable swaybars first. They are your best bang for the euro. Next, if you want a coilover system, pay the money up front and look for a quality DA or TA damper from Koni, Mouton or whatever you can afford. Which one is up to you and your budget. Bushings are third in line , do some research, but poly is the most affordable.
4. Drivetrain - While you may not like the dual mass flywheel, the HR likes a lot of inertia to develop max HP. Our tests of lighter, single mass flywheels revealed it didn't help with lap times. I use the OEM unit with a NISMO clutch disc for better bite and durability.
5. Wheels- Take a look at all the threads around the Enkei RPF-1. There's a reason why most of us race with them. Lighter and while I like BBS RgRs for the street, I can't afford to put 'em on my track car. I run spacers on my 9 X 18" fronts to clear the Brembos (35 offset), but the rear 10 X 18" rears clear just fine. Save your budget for tires once you get the car sorted out.
6. Intake - Don't bother with a CAI. The factory did a pretty good job here and there's not enough gains to bother with building custom ones unless you're at the final stages of development.
7. Exhaust and headers - Not much to gain here, either. If you have no problems with emissions testing, I would recommend going with test pipes and tuning with high-grade race fuel for some additional gains. Go with a single outlet exhaust to cut a significant amount of weight from the Z. It will be loud.
8. Brakes - You heard wrong about the OEM Brembos. They're far from weak or small. You'll need to run some brake ducts to aid in cooling, but the Akebono BBK from the 370Z will run into wheel fitment issues. I run Centric high-carbon rotors and Cobalt Friction XR2 race pads along with braided brake lines on the race Z. Brakes are a strength of the Z33.
9. Bucket seats - Subjective, but I recommend a FIA seat and mounts IF you are going to use a rollbar with properly mounted 5-6 point harness. My Momo Super Cup seat has stood the test of time and I can recommend it as a good low cost option.
As for the steering wheel, keep the OEM airbag one if you're going to use the three point seatbelt.

All of this is obviously from my limited perspective, but the Z is a pretty good package to start with. Just don't jack it up by trying to do too much, too soon. Sometimes adding one change at a time (say swaybars on different settings) will pay the biggest dividends as you feel the differences. Good luck!

GodISmE

Thanks very much dkmura! I will definitely follow your advice and do it step by step. I should've mentioned that I wasn't going to mod the car completely straight away. I plan to do it progressively but want to have everything planned out in advance so I get all the mods right from the beginning. I will be learning the stock car first on my local tracks before modding it and taking it to the Green Hell!

I just need to test those Bremobos myself, because I've heard and / or read different opinions about them - by this guy for example but also folks on my local forum: " If you intend any track use be very carefull with the brakes as they are really too small for the weight and power of the car"
If someone else has experience with this stuff, please share.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

The standard brakes that came with the early model USDM spec Z33s were marginal for track use. That brake package simply did not have enough heat sink capacity and would fade quickly, particularly in the hands of new Z owners not accustomed to track driving. This was not the case with the monoblock Brembo package, which came initially on the track model. Nissan also addressed the standard brakes by increasing their size for the later model Z33s, but the Brembo-equipped cars were always good; particularly when the brake fluid was changed to a higher spec, and race pads were used.

GodISmE

@dkmura, which type do you use: Centric high-carbon rotors 125 plain series?

Can you recommend a good set of sway bars?

armt350z

iTrader: (6)

Most of your weight will initially come off the rear of the car. Its where all the easy stuff to remove is. Everything to lighten up the front starts decreasing driver protection or comfort ( Crash protection, AC, Lexan windows)

Grab yourself some short ram filters if you must. although legitimately a drop in filter is enough. After that, the biggest gains are from the Cats and a good 3" exhaust. top it off with a tune and you will be in the 280-290 hp mark.

Suspension,
Get a stiff front sway bar. rear you can leave alone. I'll second what Dkmura said, although don't count out the KW clubsport kit. For the $2800 it can be found for, it gives you 90% of what the 6k kits cost.

Replace your bushings, especially the differential and go with solid diff bushings, SPL work, dont waste your time with any poly differential bushings. If you have the money, get a real differential. After suspension and tires, it will have the largest effect on your car. I use a nismo GT pro. It can be loud if you don't use motul 90 PA

Enkei or TSW's seem to be the go to. They work and are cheap.

OEM Brembos with ducting are fine for sub 350 WHP. Throw on some stainless lines, good pads and fluid and you are set. I ran Pagid rs4 in the front with Ferodo DS2500 rears and liked it a lot. I run Motul RBF 660 for fluid.

I use a Sparco Pro 2000. But only recommend if you have at least a roll bar with a proper 5/6 point harness.

I forgot to mention, get an upgraded radiator. and an oil cooler.

GodISmE

Thanks mate. I'm actually removing the AC, won't need it. I am also replacing the hood with a light fiber glass one.

I'll follow dkmura's advice and just replace the air filters with sport ones, e.g. K&N.

I already bought the oil cooler and a brake duct kit.

Suspension - I still need to decide which front sway bars to get and after reading a lot about suspension on this forum, I think I'll start with something like Koni Yellows and springs.

Need to find out how to install that roll bar for the bucket seat, I haven't explored this area yet.

@armt, which one, 1.5 way, 2 way? I've started to read about the LSD and options for VLSD replacement. Which one would be best for a track?

What wheel size is optimal for tracks?

armt350z

iTrader: (6)

The fiberglass hood is probably going to weigh more than the stock hood. the stocker is something like 10kg.

The Yellows will likely leave you wanting in the suspension department. At their core, they are still very much street dampers.

Hotchkis is a reputable sway bar kit and what I use, its kind of the go to with its adjustment range.

Pleie sport out of Germany can get you a DMSB roll bar at a reasonable price, look for a 4 to 6 week lead time.

I use a 1.5 way. I don't particularly care for how 2 ways lock up under decel, but thats personal preference and driving style.

you will have to choose if you want a staggered or square setup. I've run both on the nordschleife and specifically for that track I favor the staggered setup. There is no run off at any point so I like the car slightly understeering. Every other track I run a square setup with 285/30/18 which is a very neutral setup. There have been reported ABS failures however with a square setup.

Staggered: 18x9.5 front, 18x10.5 rear

Square 18x10.5 all around

GodISmE

Ok but $2800 for coilovers is still a bit high for me. Anything under $1000 good for a track? What about these? http://www.modbargains.com/bc-racing...issan-350z.htm

Will 18x9 (245) and 18x10 (275) be ok for Nordschleife? Which rims and tires would you recommend?

armt350z

iTrader: (6)

Stay away from BC racing and stick to the koni's if that is your price point. or better yet, if your stock suspension is still in good order then roll with that for the first season.

If you are on a budget, grab a set of 17x8.5 and 17x9.5 with a 255/40/17 front and 275/40/17 rear NT01's or R888's. I've got an extra set of rims in that size if your interested.

What is your total budget if you don't mind me asking? We can suggest good priorities if we know your constraints.

Also what are your goals?

rahulkentonn

Actually I joined this forum to learn what mods I can make on my new 2006 350Z.

GodISmE

My goal is a car that I can track around 10 times a year with the Nordschleife being my main event. Don't care about power and speed that much, more about good and predictable handling. It will also be my daily for now but only if it won't compromise its main purpose: track car! I can get another car for daily driving if I need to.

I have some experience with driving on tracks but not that much. I only did about 10 track day events. More experience in simracing like iRacing, a few years.

My budget is not limited but I hate spending money on something that I don't really need or I can't fully utilise. I don't like overpriced or trendy stuff either. I only want stuff that will do the job well and will do just that. I probably over analise everything because of it but I can't help it So for example, if you say that BC racing are no good for a track, I'd like to know exactly why and what justifies me spending a lot more on a kit like KW clubsport.

I know that I should take my time and drive a stock car for now, learn it and then decide what to change... I actually plan to do do it this way but for reasons explained in my other thread about the shopping list (us stores), I'm willing to take a risk and buy some of this stuff in advance.

armt350z

iTrader: (6)

first off sorry if this gets a bit lengthy.

BC racing and the rest of its china and Taiwan made shocks are garbage. The first problem is lack of quality control, it could actually be the largest problem since it bleeds over into ever subcomponent.

Next is the raw materials used. Generally you see quality aluminum and steel alloys used on top end manufacturers that are machined to the tightest specs and highly controlled for any defects. Again, In the subpar groups, base materials are used that may or may not have defects that are put on cars.

They also cannot consistently manufacture components. This is commonly seen in the shim stacks that are used for valving. It part of the reason why when a shock says it has 32 clicks of adjustment, shock dynos will only show about 4 of those clicks actually do anything for rebound or compression. There are very few companies that can manufacture those shims with the precision needed. Ohlins, Koni, Bilstein and KW are a few of those that can.

Next is the design, almost all china shocks are generic copies of other makes. they usually don't incorporate designs to prevent cavitation or the gas and dampening fluid. They are prone to failure due to faulty seals or piston rods and they are usually not rebuildable. Also out of the 4 shocks from the china brands, rarely will the 4 shocks match each other performance wise.

BC, K sport, D2 , CXracing, top speed, godspeed and those other cheap coilovers are all the same stuff, just different anodization. All crap.

All of that being said, your probably going to ignore all of what I said and buy some chinese/taiwan crap. In this case, what you consider over priced is simply high quality. There is a reason the cars that run good suspension components win races. Have a blast.

GodISmE

Well no, now that I know the reasons behind the price I think it's well justified. It's either good coilovers or nothing, I get it Whether I really need them and/or will be able to fully utilise them, I don't know. I read dkmura's thread about coilovers and I actually doubt that I will ever be able to set it up right. But I'm getting close to making a decision thanks to you guys. Thanks a lot for explaining all this stuff

So is it even worth getting those Koni shocks + springs? What actual improvement in handling do they make over the OEM suspension?

armt350z

iTrader: (6)

So what you just described is a very common occurrence, its the exact reason why I steer most people towards a coilover like a KW V1 as opposed to the V3.

The Koni and a good spring setup should be a fairly nice increase from stock. Probably equal or slightly better to the Nismo Z suspension. I don't have enough experience with that specific shock to tell you which spring rate to choose though. The cool thing is, if you later decide you want stiffer shocks and springs, they are rebuildable and custom revalvable.

If I remember correctly the yellows are single adjustable on the rebound side so pretty much set it up with the starter setting from the factory and add a click of rebound to the car until it turns in smooth. Once you no longer feel a change in the way the car turns in, remove a click of rebound to the last setting you felt or have data showing a positive change.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

I've been using the Centric HC units for over a year now and they're holding up well. Tried cryo-treated 125 units previously and I like the HC units better.

My race Z uses the Nissan Motorsports (US spec) swaybars and are six way adjustable front and rear.