Alright Here is my story....

Lately I have been getting a pretty consistent squeal from the front brakes and Im very sure that I need new pads and rotors up front. A local brake shop told me they would do a free inspection of the system for me and then let me know what I need done. (obviously so I would get the work done there).

Needless to say I left their shop (yesterday) pretty unhappy. My appointment which I was told would take 45 minutes, really took about 3 hours. They did, however, confirm what I suspected. I need new front pads and rotors, and apparently also a fluid flush. I told the guy who I was dealing with that I was interested in upgrading my pads and rotors and also my fluid if I needed that done as well and here is what I was told.

The OEM replacement rotors that this guy offered were $102/rotor and he said those were his cheaper ones and that if I drove hard he would suggest a better OEM replacement rotor, obviously for more money. When I told him I wanted slotted he said those would run me about $260/rotor. I asked if I could buy my own and have them do the install and he said sure, but without warranty (which is understandable). I asked him about EBC rotors (which were the ones I was leaning towards after hearing good things about them on this forum and from friends) He told me that EBC's rotors are made from "chinese metal" and are a very soft, low quality rotor and he would NOT recommend them. A bit strange and definitely over priced for his rotors, made me wonder if he knew what he was talking about. This was the general manager FYI.

The next discussion was about pads. He told me that he offered a top of the line pad, but strangely enough ive never heard of them, vortex brand is what they were called. He did say that he would install pads that I brought if I wanted to, I've been leaning towards EBC redstuff but also considering project mu NS pads. Not too concerned with the pad discussion, but I had never even heard of vortex pads.

Finally, the conversation that concerned me most, was about the fluid. What he told me I had never ever heard before and really made me question whether or not this guy really knew what he was talking about. I told him I wanted to upgrade my fluid to a higher temp fluid. I do mostly street driving, somewhat agressive, and look forward to hopefully tracking my car sometime soon. He said he would ABSOLUTELY NOT recommend a higher temp fluid. He told me that the factory brake lines were designed for DOT 3 fluid and that a higher temp fluid or a DOT 4 could cause cracking or other problems. He said the lines were not designed for a different viscosity fluid. I asked him about possibly upgrading to braided lines and he said those were only cosmetic (weird because you cant really see them unless you're in the wheel well) and that they would still have problems with a higher temp fluid.

Basically, I needed some more input from you brake pros on the boards. I would like to upgrade to better rotors and pads and the EBC combo sounded like the best bet for my money. Are there different agressive street pads rotors that anyone would recommend for a good price/good quality? Also what is the deal with the fluid? Can or should I upgrade to better fluid... or do a flush at all? Which fluid if so? Any input would really help. Just not sure if that guy knew what was up or was just trying to scare me into buying his parts (which i wont). Thanks!!

 

No help yet?

 

As a large independent multi store repair facility we can buy identical sized rotors for $25 each or $50 each or $70 each. The ultra large thick SUV/truck units cost $10 more in each category

80 % of the world's supply of brake rotors come from China, Brembo are cast in Poland.

Drilling or slotting is a waste of money except for looks assumming modern pads. Decorative coatings Zinc and other colors may help in reducing rust against the hub where things cannot be seen, otherwise.

Don't confuse looks with performance.

Since weight is the critical factor [to absorb heat] always pick the rotor that weighs the most..even a few ounces is significant because it shows a higher density of the grey cast iron since all the dimensions must be the same

There are 12+ quality grades of grey cast iron. Ratio of Carbon to Silicon

Soft is good if you want to reduce certain noises, pads and rotors MUST BE MATCHED TO EACH OTHER to equalize wear or set wear rates. I like rotors that last 40,000 miles and pads that last 20,000.

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans...cast.iron.html
http://www.mmat.ubc.ca/courses/mmat3...(Complete).pdf
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/mr/v8n4/27625.pdf
http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans...iguel.2001.ppt

http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/112956.pdf

 

Thanks for the info! Unfortunately it will be hard for me to weight rotors before I buy them. I could just look for OEM rotors. Any one have info on the fluid or pads for me? Sorry for the long story. I may just say f-it and go with my original plan of the ebc setup.

 

The term " oem type replacement rotor" means only that they will approximately fit............nothing more.


There are lots of ways to cheat in making rotors besides the weight [metal density]: the thickness of each individual outer metal segment vs the air space thickness and the number of support air vanes.

 

Check out this thread about the StopTech Stage II OEM Kit: https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-suspension/196921-stoptech-stage-2-stock-caliper-upgrade-kit.html
This is the kit I'm purchasing on the 15th. It comes with; front & rear stock sized StopTech slotted or drilled brake rotors, front and rear Axxis Ultimate brake pads, front & rear StopTech stainless steel brake lines, & 3-500mL bottles of Motul RBF600 DOT 4 synthetic brake fluid.
Also if you're worried about warranty I would contact your Nissan Service Dept. I'm sure they will do the install and still keep your factory warranty on the work not the parts. Also I'm ordering mine through a local vendor for $647 ($610 + $37 S&H) shipped to my door. If you are interested PM me and I'll see what he can do for you.

 

Definetly, go the Robert route. Stoptech Stage 2. Your brake dude sounds like he is full of s**t!!!

 

I guess this is where I chime in and say that first of all the guy you were talking to doesnt really know what he is talking about. I work at a Carquest store myself and sell brakes daily and know where he is coming from.

Here is the deal on the rotors that he is trying to sell you. The cheaper ones that he is talking about are made out of a pretty soft cheap metal that is pretty light weight. These cheap rotors are more likley to warp and not last as long just because of the metal composite. The more expensive ones are just plain a better quality of metal which will be more dense thus heavier and can take heat better. They will last longer hold up better under harsh conditions and be less likely to warp.

Now for the fluid part of the conversation. He is right to a point if you put in a higher temp fluid you MUST flush out all the old fluid out of the car (All 4 calipers, lines, and master cylinder.) If you dont you are just causing more harm then good because you have 2 different boiling point fluids in the same system. He doesnt really know what he is talking about because you can upgrade your fluid with all stock lines and calipers and have no problems. I wouldn't suggest a straight DOT 5 fluid though because that is silicone based. What I would used the Moutal RBF600 that is what I run and love it. It has higher boiling point that can withstand heavy braking conditions without breaking down.

I would suggest stainless lines because they aid in reducing brake fade. The point of a stainless line is that it wont expand as your braking force increases. Stock rubber ones do because the rubber expands thus taking away from your braking potential by expanding instead of holding pressure.


I have a track edition Z and I am currently running the EBC setup that you are talking about with stainless steel lines and Moutal RBF600. I have the red stuff pads with there slotted and milled rotors (Good cold bite but amazing bite from a more spirited speed too). All I can say is that I love it. I track my car all the time and this system has definantly performed. It may not be as good as a big brake upgrade but it sure makes a heck of a difference. Any questions please feel free to contact me!

Garrett

 

Another important thing to remember is dealer MSRP is roughly double dealer cost [the only part of new car dealership that makes a decent profit is the parts department] other than the attached used car lot.

The service department and techs are just there to sell parts.......labor component is just breakeven at best.

Unless you TEST rotors [cast iron composition] you are buying the "OLD PIG IN A POKE" .....PRICE IS NOT A GOOD CRITERIA AT THE TOP OF THE RANGE!

 

Right, I do understand that. When I said I would look for OEM I meant actual NISSAN rotors... thank your for pointing that out though.

The stoptech stage 2 kit sounds great but unfortunately I dont have $650 to drop right now, I just moved into a new house and am now broke for the moment. My rear brakes seem like they will be fine for a while so I think I am just going to replace the fronts.

I've got about 50k on my z. After hearing good things about the EBC set up, I may go with that... especially since we can conclude that the brake guy i spoke to didnt know what was going on. Do I NEED to change my fluid now though? Or was he just trying to sell me? I would love to do lines and motul fluid, but if I can wait on it that would save me some money this month.

I have a couple more questions, how many bottles of the motul fluid do I need in order to flush my lines completely? And is there any company that makes OEM replacement rotors that ARE equal or better quality than actual OEM for less than the price of the EBC rotors (about $180 for both fronts)? Thanks again for all the pointers everyone!

 

With the fluid it is hard to say if you need it flushed or not yet. A lot of it depends upon driving habits. I would say that you dont need it done yet and that you should WAIT to flush the system until you get stainless lines because when you get the lines you will have to bleed (flush) the brakes anyways. Were as just doing pads and rotors does not require bleeding of the brakes.

I believe they say that three bottles of fluid is needed in general to flush the entire system on most all cars!

 

Thanks very much! I think I will wait on the lines and fluid then.