Rotora, Stoptech? or any others?
03-26-2004, 10:03 AM
#21
....for your health
Originally posted by J Ritt
failsafe,
How did I know this was going to come up?
We have our first ST-22 rear calipers inbound now. We are looking to test them on some of our World Challenge and Grand Am Cup cars in mid April. After that, we will go into full production. As far as I can tell, we are still looking at May for retail release. The rears will match up to our front 332mm kit, and will be balanced properly. They will be priced at $1995 or less. The total price of the 4 wheel kit will be under $4000 retail. I will have them on my car for testing as soon as they get here...I'll have to post some pics. 
failsafe,
How did I know this was going to come up?
We have our first ST-22 rear calipers inbound now. We are looking to test them on some of our World Challenge and Grand Am Cup cars in mid April. After that, we will go into full production. As far as I can tell, we are still looking at May for retail release. The rears will match up to our front 332mm kit, and will be balanced properly. They will be priced at $1995 or less. The total price of the 4 wheel kit will be under $4000 retail. I will have them on my car for testing as soon as they get here...I'll have to post some pics.
Can't wait. Thanks for the update.
03-26-2004, 10:45 PM
#23
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I would highly recommend Stoptech....
Performance and quality wise, I don't think you will find a better kit. Maybe some of the high end JDM companies (Endless, Project Mu), but they cost much more.
I also thought that Stoptech's customer service was great, the iForged of the world could learn something from them. In a age when I am more and more disappointed in the lack of customer service provided by companies (Nissan, iForged, etc.), Stoptech came through for me with flying colors....
The price for the Rotora's seems good, but I have yet to see any testing of their kits, I KNOW Stoptech is a good kit, Rotora might be, but show me some data, for a couple hundred bucks I would go with what I KNOW is good.
Performance and quality wise, I don't think you will find a better kit. Maybe some of the high end JDM companies (Endless, Project Mu), but they cost much more.
I also thought that Stoptech's customer service was great, the iForged of the world could learn something from them. In a age when I am more and more disappointed in the lack of customer service provided by companies (Nissan, iForged, etc.), Stoptech came through for me with flying colors....
The price for the Rotora's seems good, but I have yet to see any testing of their kits, I KNOW Stoptech is a good kit, Rotora might be, but show me some data, for a couple hundred bucks I would go with what I KNOW is good.
03-27-2004, 05:59 AM
#24
My present inclination would be to go the same way I did earlier, and that is with StopTech.
Let me not hesitate to say that I have not driven on a set of ProjectMu or Wilwoods with this car, so no negative attribution to any other brand. My earlier brake set up on the car was the factory supplied Brembo kit on 18" wheels. (G35 coupe).
The stock Brembos are excellent brakes. For virtually all conceivable street applications, one does not require more, and some further performance enhancement at reasonable cost is available through upgrades to components such as braided stainless brake lines, some better grade fluid like Motul600RBF, and maybe some pads with more aggressive bite (with due consideration for rotor wear).
I ran the car at Laguna Seca on the Brembos, a 2.3 mile 11 turn set up. They were fine, but towards the end of the day it was clear that they were at the limit, and as I was not driving particularly hard but working more at testing the set up and certain components, and that they would have become an issue. One more session would have been one too many even under those more gentle conditions. That track is not tremendously demanding on brakes either.
It was clear to me that with more demanding track runs in the future of the car, the brakes, as nice as they were, just were not going to be satisfactory.
One of the things that really made a difference in my research and selection process was the excellent archive of articles on braking that StopTech made available. I read them all. Some of them more than twice (I am sort of a slow learner, and when it is stuff that might save your butt...I want to have better than just a rough conceptual idea of what is going on). They are justifiably proud of such a contribution to the readily accessible knowledge pool on braking performance. I could afford any brake kit I wanted, but I went with theirs in part precisely because of this archive and it has so far been a very good experience.
The 14.1" kit went on all around. (If you are not going to track, skip the rears, just a waste of money unless you want the looks factor. And by the way, StopTech will even tell you so in their own articles. You have to respect that). Had to wait an extra month because I wanted a custom painted caliper. Probably would not do that again, but when you have an assembly process....you have to respect that you are interrupting the efficiency to do that and you have to wait until a time when they service your ego. So no complaints.
Took the car to Buttonwillow. (www.g-owners.com) has the story.
That is 3 miles and 23 turns, designed and owned by the SCCA. It is highly technical and demanding. A really good teaching track. And while flat except for 1)one magic mountain hill with a sharp turn at the crest, 2)a corkscrew up and down, and 3)about a six foot dip piece with a 90 degree turn at the end, elevation change is not a factor. BUT...braking is crucial in each of those, and all around the track. There are some double apex turns and other features that require some very deliberately planned straight and trail brake technique applications, and if you don't get exactly the response you are looking for right when you demand it, you are going to be in some serious difficulty. The StopTechs were flawless, no fade, no spongy pedal. They wore fine through the whole day, and the demands were significant. (You can putt putt around that course, like you do on your cool off lap when you try to go as fast as you can without touching the brakes, at perhaps an average speed of almost 60mph. But when you get your average speed up to 75-80mph for a lap you have to be working those brakes hard in parts of the course, because some turns are 35mph max, and straights are 135mph. On the straight I am not thinking about the supercharger other than the whine in my ear from it...but I guarantee you that as you hurtle towards that turn at the end the brakes are prioritized. Of course, I always have been a chicken with an adrenaline problem).
The other kits may be fine. But I sure think that StopTech does what I wanted it to. After you have done your research, please share back with us your decision and the distinguishing factors that made you go with the choice you make. Good luck.
Let me not hesitate to say that I have not driven on a set of ProjectMu or Wilwoods with this car, so no negative attribution to any other brand. My earlier brake set up on the car was the factory supplied Brembo kit on 18" wheels. (G35 coupe).
The stock Brembos are excellent brakes. For virtually all conceivable street applications, one does not require more, and some further performance enhancement at reasonable cost is available through upgrades to components such as braided stainless brake lines, some better grade fluid like Motul600RBF, and maybe some pads with more aggressive bite (with due consideration for rotor wear).
I ran the car at Laguna Seca on the Brembos, a 2.3 mile 11 turn set up. They were fine, but towards the end of the day it was clear that they were at the limit, and as I was not driving particularly hard but working more at testing the set up and certain components, and that they would have become an issue. One more session would have been one too many even under those more gentle conditions. That track is not tremendously demanding on brakes either.
It was clear to me that with more demanding track runs in the future of the car, the brakes, as nice as they were, just were not going to be satisfactory.
One of the things that really made a difference in my research and selection process was the excellent archive of articles on braking that StopTech made available. I read them all. Some of them more than twice (I am sort of a slow learner, and when it is stuff that might save your butt...I want to have better than just a rough conceptual idea of what is going on). They are justifiably proud of such a contribution to the readily accessible knowledge pool on braking performance. I could afford any brake kit I wanted, but I went with theirs in part precisely because of this archive and it has so far been a very good experience.
The 14.1" kit went on all around. (If you are not going to track, skip the rears, just a waste of money unless you want the looks factor. And by the way, StopTech will even tell you so in their own articles. You have to respect that). Had to wait an extra month because I wanted a custom painted caliper. Probably would not do that again, but when you have an assembly process....you have to respect that you are interrupting the efficiency to do that and you have to wait until a time when they service your ego. So no complaints.
Took the car to Buttonwillow. (www.g-owners.com) has the story.
That is 3 miles and 23 turns, designed and owned by the SCCA. It is highly technical and demanding. A really good teaching track. And while flat except for 1)one magic mountain hill with a sharp turn at the crest, 2)a corkscrew up and down, and 3)about a six foot dip piece with a 90 degree turn at the end, elevation change is not a factor. BUT...braking is crucial in each of those, and all around the track. There are some double apex turns and other features that require some very deliberately planned straight and trail brake technique applications, and if you don't get exactly the response you are looking for right when you demand it, you are going to be in some serious difficulty. The StopTechs were flawless, no fade, no spongy pedal. They wore fine through the whole day, and the demands were significant. (You can putt putt around that course, like you do on your cool off lap when you try to go as fast as you can without touching the brakes, at perhaps an average speed of almost 60mph. But when you get your average speed up to 75-80mph for a lap you have to be working those brakes hard in parts of the course, because some turns are 35mph max, and straights are 135mph. On the straight I am not thinking about the supercharger other than the whine in my ear from it...but I guarantee you that as you hurtle towards that turn at the end the brakes are prioritized. Of course, I always have been a chicken with an adrenaline problem).
The other kits may be fine. But I sure think that StopTech does what I wanted it to. After you have done your research, please share back with us your decision and the distinguishing factors that made you go with the choice you make. Good luck.
03-27-2004, 06:18 AM
#25
Here are some pics of the StopTechs custom blue calipers on my street wheels, forged Enkei A&L Racing Saruwatari 19" with five split spokes. They really highlight the rotor and caliper nicely.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287489263
Here are some pics of the StopTechs on the track wheels, Nismo 18".
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287507497
And finally, here are some pics of the remains of a Subie that did not brake properly at the end of the long straight going into turn one at Buttonwillow. Exactly what happened is always difficult to say, but what was observed is that the driver carried too much speed into the turn, got the left two wheels off the edge, tried to fight it and get back on track, overcorrected and with awd as soon as he did get the front wheel on track he got traction and shot perpendicularly across the track, about 100 feet of soft grass......into a concrete wall and earth berm. So not only do you need good brakes, you need to know how to use them.
Enjoy the pics.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287507349&idx=4
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287489263
Here are some pics of the StopTechs on the track wheels, Nismo 18".
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287507497
And finally, here are some pics of the remains of a Subie that did not brake properly at the end of the long straight going into turn one at Buttonwillow. Exactly what happened is always difficult to say, but what was observed is that the driver carried too much speed into the turn, got the left two wheels off the edge, tried to fight it and get back on track, overcorrected and with awd as soon as he did get the front wheel on track he got traction and shot perpendicularly across the track, about 100 feet of soft grass......into a concrete wall and earth berm. So not only do you need good brakes, you need to know how to use them.
Enjoy the pics.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287507349&idx=4
03-28-2004, 02:59 AM
#26
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I went with Stoptech for a couple of reasons.
1) Great reputation and many happy customers. It's also nice to see a representative out here on the boards helping with questions and concerns.
2) They have a rear rotor to replace the OEM rotor to match a front brake setup. I originally wanted a 4 brake upgrade, but after reading more and more I was convinced that I really didn't need to waste my money on the rear calipers.
I went with a Stoptech 13" front kit with drilled rotors, then purchased the rear rotors to match the fronts and upgraded the brake lines and pads on the rears as well. This was a lot cheaper than upgrading all 4 calipers. About $1600 less. The performance is outstanding!! Pedal response is nice and tight without that spongy feel I had with the stock setup + 19" wheels. I was nervous about brake performance and durability with the stock setup, but now I don't even think about it. It would be interesting to know the stopping distance with this setup now. I feel like the car will come to a dead stop from 60-0 almost instantly. I can not speak for the others but I can say that the Stoptech setup exceeded my expectations.
1) Great reputation and many happy customers. It's also nice to see a representative out here on the boards helping with questions and concerns.
2) They have a rear rotor to replace the OEM rotor to match a front brake setup. I originally wanted a 4 brake upgrade, but after reading more and more I was convinced that I really didn't need to waste my money on the rear calipers.
I went with a Stoptech 13" front kit with drilled rotors, then purchased the rear rotors to match the fronts and upgraded the brake lines and pads on the rears as well. This was a lot cheaper than upgrading all 4 calipers. About $1600 less. The performance is outstanding!! Pedal response is nice and tight without that spongy feel I had with the stock setup + 19" wheels. I was nervous about brake performance and durability with the stock setup, but now I don't even think about it. It would be interesting to know the stopping distance with this setup now. I feel like the car will come to a dead stop from 60-0 almost instantly. I can not speak for the others but I can say that the Stoptech setup exceeded my expectations.
03-28-2004, 08:26 PM
#28
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Best 60-0
Track Model: 114.32 feet
4 piston: 113.67 feet
6 piston: 112.52 feet
Ave. 60-0
Track Model: 117.28 feet
4 piston: 115.83 feet
6 piston: 115.08 feet
Best 80-0
Track Model: 204.89 feet
4 piston: 203.92 feet
6 piston: 204.42 feet
Ave. 80-0
Track Model: 208.72 feet
4 piston: 206.74 feet
6 piston: 206.56 feet
Best 100-0
Track Model: 325.35 feet
4 piston: 325.63 feet
6 piston: 323.51 feet
Ave. 100-0
Track Model: 328.30 feet
4 piston: 326.87 feet
6 piston: 326.16 feet
As you can see there wasn't much difference, in some case the 6 piston was even slightly longer stopping distance. This was taken directly from StopTech, so it is not bias against StopTech..
Hope that helps
Track Model: 114.32 feet
4 piston: 113.67 feet
6 piston: 112.52 feet
Ave. 60-0
Track Model: 117.28 feet
4 piston: 115.83 feet
6 piston: 115.08 feet
Best 80-0
Track Model: 204.89 feet
4 piston: 203.92 feet
6 piston: 204.42 feet
Ave. 80-0
Track Model: 208.72 feet
4 piston: 206.74 feet
6 piston: 206.56 feet
Best 100-0
Track Model: 325.35 feet
4 piston: 325.63 feet
6 piston: 323.51 feet
Ave. 100-0
Track Model: 328.30 feet
4 piston: 326.87 feet
6 piston: 326.16 feet
As you can see there wasn't much difference, in some case the 6 piston was even slightly longer stopping distance. This was taken directly from StopTech, so it is not bias against StopTech..
Hope that helps
Last edited by Ricky; 03-28-2004 at 08:30 PM.
03-29-2004, 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Batmobile
Thanks for the info
. I'm going with the Rotora 6 piston up front 4 in the back, 14" cross drilled rotors. I got a great deal I can't pass up! Now, red or blue calipers?
Bat™
Thanks for the info
. I'm going with the Rotora 6 piston up front 4 in the back, 14" cross drilled rotors. I got a great deal I can't pass up! Now, red or blue calipers?Bat™
Hey? How good of a deal? Are there anymore deals on this set-up? I am looking to purchase a set for my Z. Would appreciate it.
03-29-2004, 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Batmobile
Thanks for the info. I'm going with the Rotora 6 piston up front 4 in the back, 14" cross drilled rotors. I got a great deal I can't pass up! Now, red or blue calipers?
Bat™
Thanks for the info
. I'm going with the Rotora 6 piston up front 4 in the back, 14" cross drilled rotors. I got a great deal I can't pass up! Now, red or blue calipers?Bat™
Come in the standard black color. But also available in red or blue. Below is a few pix and few threads for anyone that want to read up on it.
My opinion it will def. give any kits on the market a run for their money.
Link to our GB
https://my350z.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=56712
Link to Red calipers
https://my350z.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=62443
Link to Wilwood pix used by Winner of the D1 Event Feb 28th
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=63434
Link to Our customers posts
Lotus
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=66736
Lanzzor
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=67323
Anyone have any questions about our BBK, feel free to give me a ring or PM me. I'll try my best to answer any questions that you may have.
Thank you
Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090
Last edited by Jeff@Evolution; 03-29-2004 at 08:01 PM.
03-29-2004, 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by Rick Salisbury
Hey? How good of a deal? Are there anymore deals on this set-up? I am looking to purchase a set for my Z. Would appreciate it.
Hey? How good of a deal? Are there anymore deals on this set-up? I am looking to purchase a set for my Z. Would appreciate it.
Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090
03-29-2004, 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Blue Batmobile
so the backs are available now?
Bat™
so the backs are available now?
Bat™
Give me a ring tomorrow and I'll get you in on them.
And I do also want to talk to you about a few other products. Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090
03-30-2004, 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Jeff@Evolution
Give me a call tomorrow at the shop. Let me see if I can get you a package price for the Wilwood kit front and back if you are interseted.
Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090
Give me a call tomorrow at the shop. Let me see if I can get you a package price for the Wilwood kit front and back if you are interseted.
Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090
Tried calling you today. No answer and now the line is busy. I am really interested in the Wilwood set-up. Give me a good deal and I will purchase.
Thanks, Rick
03-30-2004, 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by Rick Salisbury
Jeff,
Tried calling you today. No answer and now the line is busy. I am really interested in the Wilwood set-up. Give me a good deal and I will purchase.
Thanks, Rick
Jeff,
Tried calling you today. No answer and now the line is busy. I am really interested in the Wilwood set-up. Give me a good deal and I will purchase.
Thanks, Rick
I finally made contact with you and purchased the BBK. Thanks for you help. Give me a confirmation of the order and when you have the tracking number, give me that also.
Rick Salibury
03-30-2004, 10:51 AM
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Thanks for the info. I'm going with the Rotora 6 piston up front 4 in the back, 14" cross drilled rotors. I got a great deal I can't pass up! Now, red or blue calipers?
I'm sorry to see this result...it's nothing personal, but a cheap price isn't everything.
The other day, I had someone mention to me on a sponsorship deal that Rotora was offering some kind of insane discount...much lower than what I had offered. The reality is...why do you think that is? If the company is so desperate to give stuff away, doesn't that tell you something? One of guys made a good analogy the other day...he said, "If all you were worried about with your car was price, why wouldn't you just buy a Kia instead of X?"
I wish you good luck with whatever you choose. As I mentioned before, there is a lot more to the purchase experience with a product like this than a cheap price...service, quality, and sound engineering all have a great value when you're talking about a big dollar safety item for your vehicle. You should really make sure you are getting your money's worth, even if that price seems like a good deal on the surface.
03-30-2004, 11:10 AM
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BTW Bat,
Why do you think that a 6 piston setup is better than a 4? The reality is that the only tangible benefit you will receive is slightly longer pad life due to more surface area.
Also, there's a good chance that your pedal travel will be longer than it would with a four (depending on piston bore size)...pedal travel will depend on the amount of fluid displaced to move the pistons in the caliper.
In other words, 6 is not necessarily better than 4, and 8 is not necessarily better than 6. Depending on design, you would be able to get more clamping force out of a 4 than an 8!
Why do you think that a 6 piston setup is better than a 4? The reality is that the only tangible benefit you will receive is slightly longer pad life due to more surface area.
Also, there's a good chance that your pedal travel will be longer than it would with a four (depending on piston bore size)...pedal travel will depend on the amount of fluid displaced to move the pistons in the caliper.
In other words, 6 is not necessarily better than 4, and 8 is not necessarily better than 6. Depending on design, you would be able to get more clamping force out of a 4 than an 8!
03-30-2004, 09:24 PM
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When companys give sponserships away theyusually do give them away at a cheap price to get their names out there more and to show that more people have their product. For a person like me who just got my Z and am hooking it up when i go to Hot import nights in san mateo next week i will be looing for what other Z's are using on their vehicles when they have bigger rims on it, I have some enkei 20" enzo wheels and i am going to buy a set of the new piaa super rozza 2pc wheels (show and street) I want to get sponsered for some brakes also and price is a concern when i still got tv's, system, fiberglass work, kit, etc. to do to my ride but i have read some good stuff on stop tech i saw an article in sport compact car this months issue when the put stoptech on their project dodge srt-4 the only negative thing i saw was that they called you guys brake dorks, other than that i'd love a whack at a sponsership whats the requirements? send me a PM on a price for front and rear set also.
Originally posted by J Ritt
Bat,
I'm sorry to see this result...it's nothing personal, but a cheap price isn't everything. The other day, I had someone mention to me on a sponsorship deal that Rotora was offering some kind of insane discount...much lower than what I had offered. The reality is...why do you think that is? If the company is so desperate to give stuff away, doesn't that tell you something?
One of guys made a good analogy the other day...he said, "If all you were worried about with your car was price, why wouldn't you just buy a Kia instead of X?"
I wish you good luck with whatever you choose. As I mentioned before, there is a lot more to the purchase experience with a product like this than a cheap price...service, quality, and sound engineering all have a great value when you're talking about a big dollar safety item for your vehicle. You should really make sure you are getting your money's worth, even if that price seems like a good deal on the surface.
Bat,
I'm sorry to see this result...it's nothing personal, but a cheap price isn't everything.
The other day, I had someone mention to me on a sponsorship deal that Rotora was offering some kind of insane discount...much lower than what I had offered. The reality is...why do you think that is? If the company is so desperate to give stuff away, doesn't that tell you something? One of guys made a good analogy the other day...he said, "If all you were worried about with your car was price, why wouldn't you just buy a Kia instead of X?"
I wish you good luck with whatever you choose. As I mentioned before, there is a lot more to the purchase experience with a product like this than a cheap price...service, quality, and sound engineering all have a great value when you're talking about a big dollar safety item for your vehicle. You should really make sure you are getting your money's worth, even if that price seems like a good deal on the surface.