Cyase

I forgot where I saw this

Drifting is a technique used through a turn to change a vehicles attitude for a proper exit. Practicing this technique is good for a vehicle that has under or over-steer problems in cornering. (This is used in Rallying but also useful in Road Racing!) There are so many types of drift techniques, so here I just introduced some of them.




Race Drift
This is performed at race speeds, when entering a high speed corner a driver lifts his foot off the throttle to induce a mild over steer and then balances the drift through steering and throttle motions. (note: the car that is being used for this style of drift should be a neutral balanced car therefore the over steer will induce itself, if the car plows through any turn this technique will not work).

Braking Drift
This is performed by trail braking into a corner, then loss of grip is obtained and then balance through steering and throttle motions. (note: this is mainly for medium to low speed corners).

Faint Drift
This is performed by rocking the car towards the outside of a turn and then using the rebound of grip to throw the car into the normal cornering direction. (note this is heavy rally racing technique used to change vehicle attitudes during cornering, mainly tight mountain corners).

Clutch Kick
This is performed by depressing the clutch pedal on approach or during a mild drift to give a sudden jolt through the driveline to upset rear traction.

Shift Lock
This is performed by letting the revs drop on downshift into a corner and then releasing the clutch to put stress on the driveline to slow the rear tires inducing over steer. (this is like pulling the E-brake through a turn - note this should be performed in the wet to minimize damage to the driveline etc.)

Emergency Brake Drift
This technique is very basic, pull the E-Brake or (side brake) to induce rear traction loss and balance drift through steering and throttle play. (note: this can also be used to correct errors or fine tune drift angles).

Dirt Drop Drift
This is performed by dropping the rear tires off the road into the dirt to maintain or gain drift angle without losing power or speed and to set up for the next turn. (note this technique is very useful for low horsepower cars).

Jump Drift
In this technique the rear tire on the inside of a turn or apex is bounced over a curb to lose traction resulting in over steer.

Long Slide Drift
This is done by pulling the E-brake through a strait to start a high angel drift and to hold this to set up for the turn ahead. (note: this can only be done at high speed).

Swaying Drift
This is a slow side-to-side faint like drift where the rear end sways back and forth down a strait.

FF Drift (Front Wheel Drive Drift)
The E-brake as well as steering and braking techniques must be used to balance the car through a corner. (note: the E-brake is the main technique used to balance the drift).

Power Over
This performed when entering a corner and using full throttle to produce heavy oversteer (tail slide) through the turn. (note: needs horsepower to make this happen).

LS350Z

I find it funny when people think drifting is actually a good race technique on a solid surface (road surface). Let's start talking about friction, slip angles, and traction and we'll quickly show why drifting on streets/road surfaces is slow yet benifitial in a rally race on poor surface (dirt, mud, snow).

Caswell

I know, it kills me too. The only time I've ever intentionally induced oversteer was back in karting. We'd kick the back end out going into a fast turn to scrub off speed without braking. By keeping your foot in the gas and off the brake it helped to keep the 100cc two-stroke we were running in its very narrow powerband.

Some people these days actually think that getting sideways is the fastest way through any turn. Drifting contests make for a good show, but until Schumacher starts getting his Ferrari sideways in turns I'll stick to old fashioned brake -> turn-in -> apex -> exit when I want to get around a road course as fast as possible.

Mrsideways

I hate to tell you but drifting to a mild degree isn't slower. It all comes down to your driving style and as long as down force isn't involved you can run pretty similar times. 3 months back I set FTD at a single lap track day on really dead rear hoosiers and a soft front sway bar. It didn't take till the first corner to realize how bad the car was set like that but it was soooo fun I left it all day and I did everything in my Power to keep it pointed in the right direction while still pushing hard. The car was an absolute oversteering joy ride. Yet in my silly stock class S2000 I managed to beat some very good drivers in cars like supercharged Z06's with suspension and New hoosiers on a track day with actual straight aways. In some testing we've done we've found the car to be on average about .5 seconds faster on a 60 second autox course setup to be very loose rather then neutral. Look at some national champion cars. Brian Prieb (mis spelled) is a prime example. His Celica GT in G-stock looks like an oversteering nightmare that car wants to spin every time you turn the wheel, Yet he was the G stock national champ by over a second. His rear shocks are sooo stiff they belong on an F350. Yes exagerated drifting is slower but sideways to a certain degree is actually faster but depending on your driving style.

This IMHO this is why the 350z , Z4, and boxster simply aren't beating the S2000's in autox. In stock form it's very very hard to dial out the understeer. The S2000 with less tire, less torque and less power and virtually similar weight continue to win. And this is what scares me. The Rx-8 from all reports oversteers like the S2000 has more torque similar weight and wider wheels. I won't mind buying one because it has more space and it's cheaper. HEHE. When I look for a car to buy I look for cars the magazines are scared of from oversteer. The kinda cars lawyers try to keep off the road.

Caswell

I don't know about autoX, never done it, never will. My experience is on purpose-built road courses. I'll agree that a car that tends towards oversteer is faster than one that wants to plow through turns, but once you start to get sideways you're slowing down. Like I said before, in karting no one ever called it drifting, it was "scrubbing off speed" and we did it for the reasons I stated about the engine's powerband. Besides, in many years of going to the SCCA Runoffs and other SCCA club racing events I've never seen someone with a car getting even remotely sideways win a race, downforce or not.

Mrsideways

well like I said the event I did surprisingly well was a Road course type event. But I disagree with you, I recently saw the Speed world challenge race in person and I kid you not every single one of the top 10 drivers was coming out of turn 1 (at sebring) in a 4 wheel drift right out to the rumble strips. In fact that was the difference between the top drivers and the slow guys. The slow guys looked to be just driving the line. About Karting. Karting teaches you to drive a Formula car (unfortunatly all the guys I know that believe in karting are down right slow in a normal car) . Which isn't ment to be slid around all over the place. Which is part of the reason why most formula style racing is BORING to watch. F1 would be 10 times more entertaining if they gave them junk tires, NO down force, put the engines in the front, and gave them 10x more hp. My shifter Kart is down right boring to drive compared to my S2K unless it's raining. I scare people on the other side of the fence its fun. But mid engine cars are a different story all together. They have massive amounts of turn in (early 90's MR2) you actually do the "scrubbing" as you call it into the corner. It's not so much drifting as it's barely noticeable when you do it. But in autox thats just how you drive them. The weight in the rear wants to swing out and you go back to power to drive out of the corner, It's actually quite fast.

P.S. don't knock autox. A fast autoxer is always a fast road racer, but a fast road racers usually sucks at autox and thats why we make fun of them.

LS350Z

The problem with your analysis at your track day is 'really worn hoosiers'. Once again, slip angles, traction, and surface condition all play roles into when drifting can be benifitial. There are some times when drifts can be faster, but most of the time it is not. Before basing your sole arguement on drifting being equally fast, due some real testing and some real research and then we can talk .

Mrsideways

we have done testing. Now not all out drift because Yes i agree that large drifts are slower but some oversteer on corner entry is quicker. The testing we've found is that my car is quicker set up loose. Hands down.

Caswell

Okay, I think we're actually saying the same thing but have different idea over what constitutes drifting. I hear so much about the completely sideways, tire-smoking judged drifting contests from the riceboys at work that it's affecting my perception. You're right about four-wheel drifts and setting the car up loose, and I've mentioned we always tried to get our setups right on the edge of oversteer.

Your comments on karting are really interesting. Do you run on full-size courses? I always ran on smaller sprint tracks and I was rarely bored. Lastly, none of the SCCA club racers I know really care about what the folks running the Mickey Mouse Grand Prix think of them

Mrsideways

i've only run the kart at specific kart tracks like the 103rd street track in Jacksonville, and Ocala Grand prix track. Jacksonville is fun with the banked corners and the 1000 yard straight that allows the shifter to top out 6th. EST 100mph. But after visiting the track a few times I found it boring and pretty easy untill one day when it rained. And suddenly it was great again.

As for autoxers making fun of road racers. We have a few autox events around here that are really Solo 1 with solo 2 rules. So of course all the road race guys show up thinking they will rule at tracks like gainsville raceway. A funny comment that came from one of the C Stock drivers at the event was... "well I drove like $hit but at least I beat all those road racers", I'm sure they say the same about us. But this is the question a Beg to ask of all of you.

Given a car neither has ever driven before, on a track and surface neither has ever had the chance to drive on before WHO WOULD BE FASTER.
Michael Shumacher
Marcus Gronholm
or any Winston Cup driver.

Caswell

No way! I didn't notice your location - I grew up in Orlando. I used to run at 103rd a lot back in the mid nineties. The straight is pretty boring in Yamaha heavy, but flicking the kart sideways and blasting through the left hander at the end was great. I will admit that's an easy track. I went there for my first kart race ever and won my heat and the main.

I ran at Ocala Grand Prix a bit more, but that's the track that sent me to the hospital. I screwed up the left hander getting back onto the oval (don't laugh, I know that's probably the easiest turn on the track) and I tried to hold an outside line going through turn four of the oval. Needless to say, the marbles had a different idea and I went into the armco wall at about a 45* angle and near full speed (I think we ran through that turn in the sixties in Yamaha heavy) and got ejected. If you've never been thrown out like that, the only way to describe it is like the hand of God grabbed the epulats on my suit and just hucked me down the track.

I really miss Florida. I took a job with GM at the proving grounds after college (Georgia Tech), and while that's fun I can't shake the feeling that I'll never fit in in Michigan.

Mrsideways

Ocala Gran prix handed me a sweet sholder injury as well. I dropped 2 wheels off the track (on what was supposed to be my cool down lap) caught the bottom of the kart on the edge of the pavement, It grabbed the kart and tossed me about 3 or 4 feet in the air and straight off into the tires upside down in a rotax.

My brother is a floridian in michigan he's teaching in ann arbor.