Grounding kit: What for?
#21
Originally Posted by paikman
I didn't post to argue with the negative results you had, our results have spoken for themselves. I am not a manufacturer claiming to gain hp by this nor am I a vendor pushing product out, just sharing our experience has been very positive with the sun brand ....Probably sold about 300+ units and every has been positive feedback in person and on the dyno when dynod. Sun uses full copper instead of the cheap speaker wire kits you guys are talking about.
"Sun Automobile can help you gain horsepower and audio clarity with Sun Automotive grounding kits and hypervoltage systems. A grounding kit will help your car or truck gain more torque, better gas mileage, better response and better starting ability."
This is what the reviewer at Nissanperformancemag said about grounding kits, and she was being nice (about half way down):
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/march04/ask_sarah/
With all due respect to your customers' feedback, I have made my decision based on 37 years of electrical engineering experience and hands-on experimentation, which means more in my book than any 17 yr old's butt dyno. But if you're old enough to have a car and spend money, you can make up your own mind what to spend it on. And if you feel this mod looks good and works good, then more power to you.
#22
It's total bull****... Don't buy into it..
Originally Posted by 04350zTouring
Can someone please educate me on the use of a Grounding kit?
what is it for? Can it be installed by myself? or need a professional?
Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Dennis
04350zTouring
what is it for? Can it be installed by myself? or need a professional?
Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Dennis
04350zTouring
#23
now wait a minute, wait a minute...
I am no car expert, nor am I a electrician. However I DO know that the majority of power from an electrical current comes from the GROUND. It would make logical sense to me that lower gauge ground wire would increase and stabalize voltages across the current pathways.
UNLESS, the guage wire already installed handles the voltage adquately and lower guage wire is just overkill, is this the case? A little like wanting to widen a 13' wide hallway. If that makes any sense.
I am no car expert, nor am I a electrician. However I DO know that the majority of power from an electrical current comes from the GROUND. It would make logical sense to me that lower gauge ground wire would increase and stabalize voltages across the current pathways.
UNLESS, the guage wire already installed handles the voltage adquately and lower guage wire is just overkill, is this the case? A little like wanting to widen a 13' wide hallway. If that makes any sense.
#24
Originally Posted by Tackett
now wait a minute, wait a minute...
I am no car expert, nor am I a electrician. However I DO know that the majority of power from an electrical current comes from the GROUND. It would make logical sense to me that lower gauge ground wire would increase and stabalize voltages across the current pathways.
UNLESS, the guage wire already installed handles the voltage adquately and lower guage wire is just overkill, is this the case? A little like wanting to widen a 13' wide hallway. If that makes any sense.
I am no car expert, nor am I a electrician. However I DO know that the majority of power from an electrical current comes from the GROUND. It would make logical sense to me that lower gauge ground wire would increase and stabalize voltages across the current pathways.
UNLESS, the guage wire already installed handles the voltage adquately and lower guage wire is just overkill, is this the case? A little like wanting to widen a 13' wide hallway. If that makes any sense.
There are many ways to prove this to yourself. You can disconnect the large red (battery) cable from your alternator and drive around the block. Now your electrical circuit voltage will drop from nominal charging voltage, typically greater that 13.8, to battery voltage which is no more than 12.6. Will you notice a horsepower reduction? NO. And the 1.2 volt difference is a far far larger number than you would ever see by increasing the ground cable size.
One also has to ask: Why not upsize the positive side of the system? Wouldn't one also see benefits from this? Isn't the positive side cabling prone to degradation from the same environmental conditions? Answer: Too little profit because there is far too much work to be done by the mfgr of the wiring. Cable length, termination lug size/type, color, jacket material, etc..., are all different for EACH serviced load, AND different from car to car. So, the ultimate goal is not more horsepower (profit?). Oh yea, don't forget to reconnect the alternator wire if you actually did this. I would hope that this made enough sense that you didn't have to go out and try it. Finally, I have run without an alternator (unintentionally), on at least one occasion, until the battery didn't have capacity left to even keep the lights on, and it wasn't until the very end that I saw a misfire - and yes, it was a computerized, fuel injection engine. Sorry about the length of this, I got carried away.
Last edited by undrgnd; 09-25-2005 at 03:15 AM.
#27
Confused ??!!!
I was told in my electronics class power flows from negative to positive.
I originally, thought it was the opposite. I had to retrain myself. So, I was thinking that the better my input path the better the electrons would flow. This is the ground or negative connection.
Guess I have to go look at those books again. It would be even better if my positive was just as large but, some energy gets used along the way so it's not as big a deal. I'll have to look this all up again. Dagnabit !!
I originally, thought it was the opposite. I had to retrain myself. So, I was thinking that the better my input path the better the electrons would flow. This is the ground or negative connection.
Guess I have to go look at those books again. It would be even better if my positive was just as large but, some energy gets used along the way so it's not as big a deal. I'll have to look this all up again. Dagnabit !!
#28
Originally Posted by mecinoid
I was told in my electronics class power flows from negative to positive.
I originally, thought it was the opposite. I had to retrain myself. So, I was thinking that the better my input path the better the electrons would flow. This is the ground or negative connection.
Guess I have to go look at those books again. It would be even better if my positive was just as large but, some energy gets used along the way so it's not as big a deal. I'll have to look this all up again. Dagnabit !!
I originally, thought it was the opposite. I had to retrain myself. So, I was thinking that the better my input path the better the electrons would flow. This is the ground or negative connection.
Guess I have to go look at those books again. It would be even better if my positive was just as large but, some energy gets used along the way so it's not as big a deal. I'll have to look this all up again. Dagnabit !!
#30
Originally Posted by undrgnd
will increase impedance (resistance) in that circuit and restrict the flow of current, thus reducing the voltage available at the load.
Also, I would understand grounding system better if you told me your are connecting those grounds to that "high end" stereo - electronic equipment. If you do not, then you are simply back to your chasis ground.
Student of PT Barnum.
Last edited by Z's; 09-26-2005 at 03:48 PM.
#31
improved grounding
One of the benefits of a grounding kit is reduced Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI). Ask any electrical engneer who does EMI testing on equipment (required by the FCC) and you will find the first thing they look to change when a rack of equipment is having trouble passing the tests is to improve the grounding.
This helps to explain why so many who have grounding kits say their idle is improved or an engine miss is gone or their radio sounds clearer.
Don't look for big horsepower gains, because you won't find them with improved grounding. Anyone who says the automotive engineers designed in the optimal grounding needed has not worked for a big corporation that designs new products. Everything is driven by the bottom line. Put in the cheapest parts you can get away with and still come close to your design goals is how it works. Unless your designing a Lambo......
This helps to explain why so many who have grounding kits say their idle is improved or an engine miss is gone or their radio sounds clearer.
Don't look for big horsepower gains, because you won't find them with improved grounding. Anyone who says the automotive engineers designed in the optimal grounding needed has not worked for a big corporation that designs new products. Everything is driven by the bottom line. Put in the cheapest parts you can get away with and still come close to your design goals is how it works. Unless your designing a Lambo......
#32
Originally Posted by z327
Ask any electrical engneer who does EMI testing on equipment (required by the FCC) and you will find the first thing they look to change when a rack of equipment is having trouble passing the tests is to improve the grounding.
#33
A few words extracted from the service manual...
Ground connections are very important to the proper operation of electrical and electronic circuits. Ground connections are often exposed to moisture, dirt and other corrosive elements. ....unwanted resistance can change the way a circuit works.
Electronically controlled circuits are very sensitive to proper grounding. A loose or corroded ground can drastically affect an electronically controlled circuit. A poor or corroded ground can easily affect the circuit.
Ground connections are very important to the proper operation of electrical and electronic circuits. Ground connections are often exposed to moisture, dirt and other corrosive elements. ....unwanted resistance can change the way a circuit works.
Electronically controlled circuits are very sensitive to proper grounding. A loose or corroded ground can drastically affect an electronically controlled circuit. A poor or corroded ground can easily affect the circuit.
#34
Originally Posted by DaveO
A few words extracted from the service manual...
Ground connections are very important to the proper operation of electrical and electronic circuits. Ground connections are often exposed to moisture, dirt and other corrosive elements. ....unwanted resistance can change the way a circuit works.
Electronically controlled circuits are very sensitive to proper grounding. A loose or corroded ground can drastically affect an electronically controlled circuit. A poor or corroded ground can easily affect the circuit.
Ground connections are very important to the proper operation of electrical and electronic circuits. Ground connections are often exposed to moisture, dirt and other corrosive elements. ....unwanted resistance can change the way a circuit works.
Electronically controlled circuits are very sensitive to proper grounding. A loose or corroded ground can drastically affect an electronically controlled circuit. A poor or corroded ground can easily affect the circuit.
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