I did not mean speaker wire literally. I used 4 AWG multistrand welding cable, and a professional crimper. This is what Sun says on their website:

"Sun Automobile can help you gain horsepower and audio clarity with Sun Automotive grounding kits and hypervoltage systems. A grounding kit will help your car or truck gain more torque, better gas mileage, better response and better starting ability."

This is what the reviewer at Nissanperformancemag said about grounding kits, and she was being nice (about half way down):

http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/march04/ask_sarah/

With all due respect to your customers' feedback, I have made my decision based on 37 years of electrical engineering experience and hands-on experimentation, which means more in my book than any 17 yr old's butt dyno. But if you're old enough to have a car and spend money, you can make up your own mind what to spend it on. And if you feel this mod looks good and works good, then more power to you.

 

It's total bull****... Don't buy into it..

 

now wait a minute, wait a minute...

I am no car expert, nor am I a electrician. However I DO know that the majority of power from an electrical current comes from the GROUND. It would make logical sense to me that lower gauge ground wire would increase and stabalize voltages across the current pathways.

UNLESS, the guage wire already installed handles the voltage adquately and lower guage wire is just overkill, is this the case? A little like wanting to widen a 13' wide hallway. If that makes any sense.

 

Circuits Theory 101: Sorry, the majority of power does NOT come from GROUND. ALL of the power comes from GROUND and the POSITIVE side equally. If either connection has a higher impedance in non-load carrying components (cables), the power delivered to the load will be proportionately reduced. A larger ground WILL increase the voltage at the load, however the existing ground has already been sized by the manufacturer for the intended load. Therefore, unless the ground degrades (corrosion, etc...), there is nothing to be gained by inreasing the voltage at an ignition circuit, or fuel pump, or ECU, from say 13.8VDC to 13.801VDC. Would any of these components perform any better, horsepower wise, at the slightly higher voltage? Most likely not, because again, the manufacturer should have designed components which perform adequately on nominal voltage plus or minus a margin of several volts.

There are many ways to prove this to yourself. You can disconnect the large red (battery) cable from your alternator and drive around the block. Now your electrical circuit voltage will drop from nominal charging voltage, typically greater that 13.8, to battery voltage which is no more than 12.6. Will you notice a horsepower reduction? NO. And the 1.2 volt difference is a far far larger number than you would ever see by increasing the ground cable size.

One also has to ask: Why not upsize the positive side of the system? Wouldn't one also see benefits from this? Isn't the positive side cabling prone to degradation from the same environmental conditions? Answer: Too little profit because there is far too much work to be done by the mfgr of the wiring. Cable length, termination lug size/type, color, jacket material, etc..., are all different for EACH serviced load, AND different from car to car. So, the ultimate goal is not more horsepower (profit?). Oh yea, don't forget to reconnect the alternator wire if you actually did this. I would hope that this made enough sense that you didn't have to go out and try it. Finally, I have run without an alternator (unintentionally), on at least one occasion, until the battery didn't have capacity left to even keep the lights on, and it wasn't until the very end that I saw a misfire - and yes, it was a computerized, fuel injection engine. Sorry about the length of this, I got carried away.

 

Thats cool man.

I stand corrected.

Some good info in that post.

 

wow, I guess if you live around Harford you get pretty damn smart.

 

I was told in my electronics class power flows from negative to positive.
I originally, thought it was the opposite. I had to retrain myself. So, I was thinking that the better my input path the better the electrons would flow. This is the ground or negative connection.

Guess I have to go look at those books again. It would be even better if my positive was just as large but, some energy gets used along the way so it's not as big a deal. I'll have to look this all up again. Dagnabit !!

 

It all depends on where you learned it and when! Most theory is indeed taught as electrons flowing from negative to positive. In semiconductors, it is taught as hole theory, which flow from positive to negative. However, NO energy gets used along the way. Every electron that leaves the negative battery terminal (or alternator) will return to the positive terminal, and that is why current is the same no matter where in the circuit you measure it. And it IS just as essential to have the positive wires properly sized. The reason positive wires are usually smaller is because each load normally gets a separate wire so that it can be switched on and off, whereas all loads return to ground, or engine chassis. Degradation in either lead, positive or negative, will increase impedance (resistance) in that circuit and restrict the flow of current, thus reducing the voltage available at the load.

 

Yeah, just like water flow in pipes. I thought some energy got used up however. Man, that what happens when you start working in 1's and 0's. Lol !!!

 

Gotta ask, what is impedance in a DC circuit. Have always been taught that impedance depends on frequency, in DC circuit frequency is zero?

Also, I would understand grounding system better if you told me your are connecting those grounds to that "high end" stereo - electronic equipment. If you do not, then you are simply back to your chasis ground.

Student of PT Barnum.

 

One of the benefits of a grounding kit is reduced Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI). Ask any electrical engneer who does EMI testing on equipment (required by the FCC) and you will find the first thing they look to change when a rack of equipment is having trouble passing the tests is to improve the grounding.

This helps to explain why so many who have grounding kits say their idle is improved or an engine miss is gone or their radio sounds clearer.

Don't look for big horsepower gains, because you won't find them with improved grounding. Anyone who says the automotive engineers designed in the optimal grounding needed has not worked for a big corporation that designs new products. Everything is driven by the bottom line. Put in the cheapest parts you can get away with and still come close to your design goals is how it works. Unless your designing a Lambo......

 

Actually a faraday shield will isolate EMI to the device that is generating it, and excessive ground can cause ground loops if you have EMI present, function as an antenna further propagating the EMI. To work the grounds must be attached to the case (or ground network) of the device in question, ergo, gotta put that hog of a wire into your stereo unit. As I understand the aftermarket grounds, they are just big wires that place parallel ground circuits in the vehicle.

 

A few words extracted from the service manual...

Ground connections are very important to the proper operation of electrical and electronic circuits. Ground connections are often exposed to moisture, dirt and other corrosive elements. ....unwanted resistance can change the way a circuit works.

Electronically controlled circuits are very sensitive to proper grounding. A loose or corroded ground can drastically affect an electronically controlled circuit. A poor or corroded ground can easily affect the circuit.

 

Dave O is right on. A loose and/or corroded ground can cause huge amounts of RFI. Wear and galvonic action can give you an intermittent ground or even destroy the ground, leaving that part of the circuit open. However, this is not limited to grounds. It includes the positive side of the circuit as well. British sports cars were notorious for bad grounds. Austin Healey drivetrains were isolated from chasis by rubber, motor mounts, tranny mouts, rear spring mounts, were all rubber and isolated the whole system. A separate ground strap to from engine to chasis was employed. Loose, forgotten, corroded, caused many a gray hair. Or so I have heard!