View Poll Results: Do bolt on mods produce long term power
Yes, bolt on mods like exhaust, intake, headers produce power initially and long term.
49
50.00%
No, bolt on mods only produce initial gains but are compensated for by the ECU and corrected.
16
16.33%
TBD, we need long term testing and dynos w/o reset of the ECU.
33
33.67%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll
bolt on mods- HP or no HP
05-09-2003, 10:38 PM
#1
....for your health
Thread Starter
bolt on mods- HP or no HP
OK there seems to be much debate in the community.
-Is it possible to see long term gains (beyond 30 days) in power for bolt on items?
-or-
-Does the ECU compensate for bolt on mods?
I really want to do some bolt on mods now but I'm wondering if there is any reason to at this point in time. I know this has been discussed before but I want to look at the bigger picture- Long term dyno testing of bolt ons mods and their gains or non-gains.
We know everyone is getting initial gains on the dyno but has anyone done definitive long term testing. Has anyone dynoed 30, 60, 90 days after without resetting their ECU?
BTW- Hats off to Cheston for sacrificing his ECU to Technosquare. Is it starting to look like we are going to be looking at stage kits to gain power?
-Is it possible to see long term gains (beyond 30 days) in power for bolt on items?
-or-
-Does the ECU compensate for bolt on mods?
I really want to do some bolt on mods now but I'm wondering if there is any reason to at this point in time. I know this has been discussed before but I want to look at the bigger picture- Long term dyno testing of bolt ons mods and their gains or non-gains.
We know everyone is getting initial gains on the dyno but has anyone done definitive long term testing. Has anyone dynoed 30, 60, 90 days after without resetting their ECU?
BTW- Hats off to Cheston for sacrificing his ECU to Technosquare. Is it starting to look like we are going to be looking at stage kits to gain power?
Last edited by failsafe; 05-09-2003 at 10:42 PM.
05-11-2003, 07:19 AM
#3
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard about option 2, that the ecu learns it and "adjusts itself".. not sure if it's true though.. my intake seems different from when I first got it, not sure if I'm getting used to it, or is something really different.
05-11-2003, 01:51 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NOR - CAL
Posts: 4,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the right combo of bolt on mods increase HP/TQ and improves your ET.
Otherwise my dream for my car is a sham and I cannot continue to live. I will swallow all of my Prozac right now if anyone says otherwise
Otherwise my dream for my car is a sham and I cannot continue to live. I will swallow all of my Prozac right now if anyone says otherwise
05-11-2003, 02:10 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by failsaf3
Everyone is voting but no one has any thoughts as to why or why not?
Everyone is voting but no one has any thoughts as to why or why not?
05-11-2003, 03:23 PM
#6
....for your health
Thread Starter
Originally posted by MaxHax
[B]I think the right combo of bolt on mods increase HP/TQ and improves your ET.
[B]I think the right combo of bolt on mods increase HP/TQ and improves your ET.
Option #4- I don't give a sh*t, I'm running NOS.
Trending Topics
05-11-2003, 09:40 PM
#8
Registered User
I strongly believe that it is near impossible for the ECU to knowingly "compensate" for gains. If you are indeed getting more air into the engine, the ECU should pump in more gas to maintain the AF ratio, which should increase power. Also, if you make it easier to get more air out of the engine, that should increase efficiency and therefore power as well.
I have also only heard of one modification that seems to be in question, and that is an intake. I have not seen anyone yet argue that their exhaust made power initially, but does not anymore. I therefore believe that what is happening is just that the Intake mods are so minor, that it is very difficult to know if their gains are real, or just due to the statistical error inherent in Dynoing a car.
To me, the Z's intake seems very well optimised already, so I'm not too surprised that aftermarket intakes aren't having as large an impact as they do on other cars. Also, from what I've seen of dyno's, they can easily have a 5% margin of error, which on the Z accounts for over 10 HP. Depending on the number of runs taken, that margin may or may not be accounted for.
I guess I'll believe in our all powerful and all knowing ECU when Doug's Headers and Intake Manifold are shown to not make gains as well. Also, if some exhausts are added to the list of "cancelled modss" then I'll be swayed. At this point, however, I don't see any evidence, scientific theory, or motivation from Nissan, that would make this ECU able to compensate for "inprovements." Rather, I believe that the "improvements" are actually not really changing much, or at least are not changing things where they need to be changed, so something else is still the bottleneck.
-D'oh!
I have also only heard of one modification that seems to be in question, and that is an intake. I have not seen anyone yet argue that their exhaust made power initially, but does not anymore. I therefore believe that what is happening is just that the Intake mods are so minor, that it is very difficult to know if their gains are real, or just due to the statistical error inherent in Dynoing a car.
To me, the Z's intake seems very well optimised already, so I'm not too surprised that aftermarket intakes aren't having as large an impact as they do on other cars. Also, from what I've seen of dyno's, they can easily have a 5% margin of error, which on the Z accounts for over 10 HP. Depending on the number of runs taken, that margin may or may not be accounted for.
I guess I'll believe in our all powerful and all knowing ECU when Doug's Headers and Intake Manifold are shown to not make gains as well. Also, if some exhausts are added to the list of "cancelled modss" then I'll be swayed. At this point, however, I don't see any evidence, scientific theory, or motivation from Nissan, that would make this ECU able to compensate for "inprovements." Rather, I believe that the "improvements" are actually not really changing much, or at least are not changing things where they need to be changed, so something else is still the bottleneck.
-D'oh!
05-12-2003, 01:10 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with D'oh -
I don't recall seeing any exhaust dynos performed a couple months after install that shows the gains being negated. I'd be interested if there are any, cause I want that Borla.
I don't recall seeing any exhaust dynos performed a couple months after install that shows the gains being negated. I'd be interested if there are any, cause I want that Borla.
05-12-2003, 01:18 PM
#11
Air and Fuel ratios being maintained by the computer is not the only thing that makes/breaks hp gains.. you are forgetting about Timing...
please see my post on the ECU thread on the how our car is cutting back the power... i'm not saying that the car can physically remove the more air you're getting. but it's killing the ignition timing severely to compensate to get it back to the stock levels
please see my post on the ECU thread on the how our car is cutting back the power... i'm not saying that the car can physically remove the more air you're getting. but it's killing the ignition timing severely to compensate to get it back to the stock levels
Originally posted by D'oh
I strongly believe that it is near impossible for the ECU to knowingly "compensate" for gains. If you are indeed getting more air into the engine, the ECU should pump in more gas to maintain the AF ratio, which should increase power. Also, if you make it easier to get more air out of the engine, that should increase efficiency and therefore power as well.
-D'oh!
I strongly believe that it is near impossible for the ECU to knowingly "compensate" for gains. If you are indeed getting more air into the engine, the ECU should pump in more gas to maintain the AF ratio, which should increase power. Also, if you make it easier to get more air out of the engine, that should increase efficiency and therefore power as well.
-D'oh!
05-12-2003, 01:18 PM
#12
Registered User
Chebosto was kind enough to shed some light on this debate here....
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=28593
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=28593
05-12-2003, 01:24 PM
#13
....for your health
Thread Starter
Cheston- Thanks for the updates on the ECU. After reading your thread I'm still wondering. Will each individual ECU need to be sent to Technosquare to be "re-flashed"?
05-12-2003, 01:36 PM
#14
Oh..
sorry
to clarify. to mod your ECU just send that in to get reprogrammed and then it will be returned back to you...
if you can be the lucky bastard to find a spare ecu, that will work too...
sorry
to clarify. to mod your ECU just send that in to get reprogrammed and then it will be returned back to you...
if you can be the lucky bastard to find a spare ecu, that will work too...
Originally posted by failsaf3
Cheston- Thanks for the updates on the ECU. After reading your thread I'm still wondering. Will each individual ECU need to be sent to Technosquare to be "re-flashed"?
Cheston- Thanks for the updates on the ECU. After reading your thread I'm still wondering. Will each individual ECU need to be sent to Technosquare to be "re-flashed"?
05-12-2003, 06:28 PM
#16
They are located here in SoCal..
when the program is declared 'finished' i will post ordering information.. they're swapped with people calling in and would appreciate if it everyone can be patient and know that this task of being the first Z in the USA to get its ecu programmed correctly will take some time... which is good because we want to get it right the first time around and not put out junk and have to comeback and offer fixes...
typically. the ECU is removed via you, (i'll provide removal instructions soon) and the best bet is to fed ex it to them, they'll change the program, most likely test to see if its ok on a test car (probably mine) and the send it out via fed ex again.. turn around time is ~3 days/4 days depending on their schedule..
when the program is declared 'finished' i will post ordering information.. they're swapped with people calling in and would appreciate if it everyone can be patient and know that this task of being the first Z in the USA to get its ecu programmed correctly will take some time... which is good because we want to get it right the first time around and not put out junk and have to comeback and offer fixes...
typically. the ECU is removed via you, (i'll provide removal instructions soon) and the best bet is to fed ex it to them, they'll change the program, most likely test to see if its ok on a test car (probably mine) and the send it out via fed ex again.. turn around time is ~3 days/4 days depending on their schedule..
Originally posted by failsaf3
Where is Technosuare located (where to ship ECU?)
Where is Technosuare located (where to ship ECU?)
05-12-2003, 07:12 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey I just hope that your straight pipes will be a reasonable price. You know, appropriate for two bent pieces of metal tubing. I hope they are not overpriced just because we have a Z like others think parts should be. I doubt they will though because you sound like a guy who is truly interested in helping the masses. I def. appreciate all you are doing and am truly looking forward to this computer mod so that I can get going on all the fun stuff under the hood!
05-12-2003, 07:45 PM
#18
....for your health
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Mr. Potato Head
Hey I just hope that your straight pipes will be a reasonable price. You know, appropriate for two bent pieces of metal tubing. I hope they are not overpriced just because we have a Z like others think parts should be. I doubt they will though because you sound like a guy who is truly interested in helping the masses. I def. appreciate all you are doing and am truly looking forward to this computer mod so that I can get going on all the fun stuff under the hood!
Hey I just hope that your straight pipes will be a reasonable price. You know, appropriate for two bent pieces of metal tubing. I hope they are not overpriced just because we have a Z like others think parts should be. I doubt they will though because you sound like a guy who is truly interested in helping the masses. I def. appreciate all you are doing and am truly looking forward to this computer mod so that I can get going on all the fun stuff under the hood!
05-12-2003, 10:06 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NOR - CAL
Posts: 4,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any dual mode capabilities like one for N20/Track and one for street? N20 needs more fuel...
As for bolt ons.
A SC with intercooler is a bolt on isn't it? What about a down pipe? No gains? Come on now!
Lots of bolt ons add HP regarless of how damn smart this ECU IS!
As for bolt ons.
A SC with intercooler is a bolt on isn't it? What about a down pipe? No gains? Come on now!
Lots of bolt ons add HP regarless of how damn smart this ECU IS!
05-12-2003, 10:31 PM
#20
....for your health
Thread Starter
No when I referred to bolt on I did not mean any type of FI or N2O- I meant things like intake, exhaust, headers and even pullies BTW did you get those bad boys installed yet???
BTW did you get those bad boys installed yet???