Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Exceelent suggestion as well - you have been in the engine bay alot now with the cam install, etc...its totally possible something is ripped, not fully connected, etc.

Start with the simple stuff first......if you have a good isntaller, he'll easily be able to go through the checklist of potential areas of concern (fuel pressure, spark, base ignition timing, etc. etc.

flynnibus

I'm just comparing to the other A/F enabled baselines posted here. I don't have an ORB2 for my car, nor did I A/F on my stock dynos. All the stock dynos I've looked at here are mostly in the 13s.. dipping to the 12s as you near redline. A dyno pull is at WOT so thats my basis.

More fuel delivery.. yes.. but not necessarily richer. If the stock ECU can't adapt.. sure thats a great reason to have the TS flash (especially considering open loop at WOT).. doesn't mean he needs to be richer.. just more fuel delivery.

I agree tho.. the only way to solve this is with data and adapting the programming.. I'm anti-canned programing.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Show me a datalog that shows the car uses 02 sensor feedback during WOT.

I am not particularly interested in what ATI has to say on the matter...I would hardly call them an authority at this point.

I don't understand what you mean about "more fuel delivery"..are you referring to more volume or more pressure?

Also, most of the dynos you see with A/F references are measuring it at the tail pipe (wideband on the calamp that goes onto teh stock exhaust....IIRC, mcduck measures his on one side of the ehxaust manifold....totally different ballgame (again without getting into what kind of sensor...I don't think for purposes of this discussion that even needs to enter into the discussion!

Eric1h

LOL, thats what i meant

flynnibus

Who said that? I said just the opposite. I said the car operates in open loop mode at WOT. Open means with no feedback.

Delivery = end result. Be it pulse width, pressure, or supplemental injectors is how you get there (delivery = need.. injectors, pressure, pulse width etc = solutions). He's getting more air per cycle into the engine (via his cams) like you said.. so he needs more fuel to maintain the A/F that he needs. More fuel.. he needs more fuel delivered.. but to maintain A/F ratio.. not to change it.

How TS or the stock ECU accounts for cams I do not know. But since air and fuel are coming through the same opening left open longer by the cams.. it should be a homogeneus change (as long as the duty cycle on the injectors can handle the longer pulse). Its not like you are opening up for more air and not more fuel. How else could Nissan offer cams without a ECU change?

Where did mcduck say he was using a manifold tap? I bet he's using a tailpipe sensor. They didn't talk about tapping into his stock o2 bung.. and this shop wasn't tryiing to do tuning.. just a dyno pull.

zzzya

iTrader: (2)

Z1 are you thinking that mcduck has the more aggressive Tomei cams? Unless he changed at some point he is still running the less aggressive Nismo cams. If you are unsure of facts such as where the A/F is being measured then we need to just ask mcduck. So, where was the A/F ratio being measured during the Dyno run? Also, how long was the TS ECU in the car before the Dyno? Had you run the car for any length of time with the TS ECU before attempting the Dyno? I only ask because even though the flashed ECU is "setup" for your mods, there may still be some adjusting happening with the ECU that either occurred or may not have occurred yet. I have always wondered about this since TS can not stop the ECU from adjusting, they can only retard the amount of adjusting it makes.

Morris

iTrader: (1)

Not sure if mcduck is monitoring still or if he caught another flight.

I was in the garage when the ECU went back in mcduck's car. He picked it up Friday afternoon and we dynoed Saturday early afternoon. So, not to many miles on the ECU before the dyno.

He has the Nismo cams, and the A/F was taken at the tail pipe.

Jim Jones

After the 301 rwhp dyno on the Mustang Dynomometer, Richard added the Crawford Plenum, RT High-Flow Cats, Grounding Kit, and TS ECU Flash. With everything, he got 276.5 rwhp on a Dynojet.

mcduck

I would also hope that TS did this right, but the car has very similar idle characteristics to what it did with the cams, et al prior to the flash and prior to advancing the timing 2 degrees as recommended by NISMO.

We'll be doing just that... I consider the timing to be one of the basics. Just get the Nissan tech to hook up diagnostics to tell us where the timing is set and see if that matches the level I left there with during my last visit. Along with that, we will be looking at the things you mentioned.

Question for anyone... is it possible to swap ECUs? I know there is a theft deterent built in. If this were possible, I could swap in Morris's ECU (still factory stock) and see how the car looks with stock settings.

A/F setting...
Okay... now I have debate raging on whether A/F should be 12.5 or 13.0 or 13.5.... anyone know for sure. I thought this was a very reasonable area to scrutinize because another of my car's symptoms is stalling as it comes down from high RPMs really fast as I described in a prior post. Much gas & little air when it winds back down... engine bogs, then stalls... Maybe the A/F should begin around 13.5 (at lower RPM ranges), then work its way down to 12.5?????

Eric1h...
We made sure to let all the cars run at idles for several minutes before dynoing. I think mine ran for something like 10 minutes. It should have been sufficiently warmed up.

Umm... I have the NISMO cams...

Hmm... just as I was suggesting above.... definitely need to get on the horn to TechnoSquare... maybe they can tweak my mapping...

A/F was measured at the tailpipe (driver side) and measured a flat 12.5 for all samples on the dyno.
The TS ECU was in the car for a day. I put about 120 miles on the car prior to dynoing.

mcduck

Thanks for the input, Jim... Not sure what it says though because a Mustang typically dynos higher than a DynoJet. So does this mean Richard lost power when he added those things, stay approximately the same, or gain a little. It's hard to say. From what I have heard (and this is not through scientific study), A Mustang Dyno will pull numbers about 8-10% higher than DynoJet. If this is true, than it appears Richard stayed about even with the new additions (276.5 x 1.10 = 304.15). Though it is hard to be sure since the dynos were done on different machines.

mcduck

Unrelated, but I see you're following this thread... email me some information on the bumper to radiator piece you have added. I'd like to see a pic and possibly get that for my car.

Jim Jones

Richard's car is definitely stronger with the plenum, cats and ECU. Tadashi at TechnoSquare said it pulls harder than any one he has ever driven. (No flames, please, I am just reporting what the man said.

mcduck

Now see... this is where I believe what other said should be true. These additions likely do not add anything to peak horsepower, but they widen the curve at less than peak. We know that's pretty much what the plenum does... continues giving you HP up to redline where the stock plenum seriously drops off after peak.

I cannot say the same of my Z as Tadashi has stated above. Looking at my graphs, it is clear between my prior run and my more recent run, I am the same or slightly lower for non-peak power.

MORRIS! Can you email me my dyno runs from that diskette? If so, I'll post the two curves so everyone can see my whole range.

I'd be happy with the 252 number if we could see significant gains in non-peak power... but they are not there either!

flynnibus

Don't label all mustang dynos because of Mossy's dyno.

Other mustangs do not show anywhere near the variation that the Mossy dyno showed. That dyno is damn near infamous.

Mustangs tend to show LOWER numbers then dynojets. Mossy's is just a freak.

Don't believe everything you read on the web.. but you can find tons of discussions about this.. from the dyno makers themselves.. to shops.. to other forums (BMW, etc)

Here's just a sample

http://www.activeautowerke.com/dyno/...gVsDynojet.asp

http://www.slugbitchracing.com/mach1_dyno_data.shtml

http://www.hondaswap.com/~pills/mustangvsdynojet.html

Eric1h

You can order from my site www.extremespeedonline.com/shop/

They are $70 without the Z logo, and $80 w/logo Plus shipping - $5

ravaz

iTrader: (1)

Eric,

Your engine looks too clean

Bill

Eric1h

LOL, thats because its IN my car and NOT in the back of my truck JK

Actually, I hardly drive the car, so its easy to keep the engine clean! besides, I'm a neat freak when its comes to my cars!

mcduck

oh yeah! That will look great with my polished pieces. Will be ordering mine in the next few days!

Maybe that will lighten my mode from the dyno debacle!

Jim Jones

Greg Vogel rented the mobile Mustang Dyno for the day, when he hosted the Nissan show on Sept. 20. It does not belong to Mossy Nissan.

Here is my Mustang dyno before the plenum, hi-flow cats, grounding kit and ecu flash.

Jim Jones

And here is my Dynojet AFTER the plenum, cats, kit and ecu