F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

Just tried fitting the can tonight, slightly disappointed it didn't fit right in. Just checking some things with Saikou Michi at the moment, will update as soon as i get info.

The inlet and outlet angles are perfect, should allow for some very nice/short pipe routing. Everything but what i believe to be the height of the bracket is right.

SurraTT

iTrader: (7)

Drill out PCV valve, connect hose going to a catch can vented to atmosphere, cap off where the old pcv hose goes to i/m.

The other valve cover goes to the intake pipe, take that hose off intake pipe, either hook up to same catch can (dual) or another can, then cap off the intake port.


This is how my car is setup. I could be wrong but this setup is a good way to do it.

bmccann101

iTrader: (16)

Why hello again everyone.. glad everyone is well tonight..
Id simply like to submit that I am.helplessly lost, completely bewildered, and have fully given.up.on following any of this..haha..
Holy ****... u guys r outta control..

Fantastic thread tho.. this is the thread type and knowledge base I LOVE to see n read n absorb ..


But holy *****..I get these reply emails on my phone and am so lost that its incredible haha..

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

hook up a vacuum guage to your intake pipe pre throttle body you will see theres vacuum there too afterall the throttle body is open at idle so its not actually behind the throttle body. granted right at the throttle plate is going to be a much higher velocity since its going to create a venturi effect but pre and post throttle body are both going to see vacuum. optimal placement for it to work how they say it will would be the throttle plate since that will create a venturi effect. unfortinately it is not setup that way so it wont work. the point i was making with the bosch oil filter is everywhere i have went to buy them bosch hasnt had a oil filter for our car and the listing they have had have been a oil filter with double the body size and a smaller thread interesting you found one that fit since the 2012 book i just looked in the other day had the wrong filter, so did the 2011 can 2010 books that the stores still had, in fact when they looked it up in there computer it said it did not fit and bosch made none. thats the point i was trying to make is manufacturers screw up, there are several points in the fsm that do not apply to our vehicle and im guaranteeing you the flow chart for the pcv system is one of them.

on a side note what bosch oil filter did you find that fits?

edit: oh yah i dont have the tube anymore from the stock intake since the turbo kit replaced that but mine most definitly was saturated with oil around the port for the driver side valve cover and i had to clean the oil off both sides of the throttle plate(since my pcv system was venting to atmosphere without a can haha i was too lazy to hook it up knowing it was just coming right back out.)

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

That would certainly be a complete removal of the enclosed system.

However, i would think that all you've done is replaced a very 'flowing' efficient method of removing the corrosive crank gasses and replaced it with something less efficient than the original draft venting system used in the 50's.

Also, the only point of the catch can is to stop/catch the oil in gas form and stop it going back into the engine's breathing system. If you've removed that connection, then the can is only there to catch incidental release.

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure there is a small one, the Bernoulli principle takes care of that.

It's not really open, it has an idle bypass, but there is some movement. Remember the engine is only sucking a small amount at this point and the movement of air in the intake tubing is very low.

You're describing two different things here, it's either using the Bernoulli principle, or it's not. The manual describes flow from the intake tube, to the drivers side cover. But you just described it to go the other way. You also confirmed it's not setup that way, therefore the flow must be the other way, the way in which everyone else describes PCV flow.

That sucks, really is it a problem on the island trying to get it? I'm sorry i don't have the box or a picture of such handy, i use the book in my local autozone. The Bosch website lists the 3300 version for my '04, and as my memory recalls, that sounds about right. My local autozone doesn't keep many of them.

Yeah, no kidding, experienced plenty of stuff like that, usually worse with model refresh years.



Turbo's are quite different in setup, they cause reverse flow in the first pipe, the one from the drivers side to the intake tubing. Best to have a catch can there as well if turbo'd.



On an N/A engine, it's one way, under any partial throttle condition, there is leakage the other way, full throttle condition, but it's still limited. This is also detailed in the FSM.
For reference purposes, for others, i'll just drop that pic down below.

Of note, is the amount of available vacuum at full and partial throttle conditions, again to do with the Bernoulli principle, as the connection from the intake tube to the drivers side is a few inches away from the butterfly. The return loop into the plenum, after travelling through the engine, is only a few inches on the other side of the butterfly.

03threefiftyz

iTrader: (25)

I spent $25 bucks at Lowes and made one...

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, seen the home made ones. Always dubious of the not for oil use on them and the lack of baffling. But all reports i've seen, show them lasting a while. Still they're better than nothing Just watch for the pressure/vacuum causing leaks in some of them.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

think im not getting what im trying to say across so ill draw a picture, for it to work the way the fsm describes. in order for the system to work it would have to have a port AFTER the throttle body but very close to the throttle plate to capture the high speed air before it slows down again.
since the intake dosnt have something like this there is no way for it to push air into the crank case. the intake tube that the driver side valve cover is attached to is smooth it has no restriction to build pressure or velocity all the airflow through there is going to be the same speed and vacuum as post throttle body.


in this pic the only place with high speed or high pressure air is right at the throttle plate, since air has pretty much no weight once you get about a inch(or mayby even less) away from the throttle plate your not going to have any venturi effect anymore. the port on the oem tube is just too far away its going to see the same vacuum and air speed as inside the intake.

as for the oil filter no its a issue ive have both on island and back home in ohio, first time i experienced it was first oil change, went and bought the stuff using the book at advance and sure enough didnt fit, thats how i first found out there computer said bosch dint have one and i was suprised you had one on your car. ive had the same problem at autozone, oreilys and napa. in fact i had this problem the other day getting oil filters for break in, books listed the wrong oil filter(way to big and wrong threads.) im suprised though because oreilys owns auto zone haha.

the oil around the port was in my oem intake tube before the car was turbo. the oem intake pipe never saw FI(sasha includes a polished aluminum tube with his kit.)

for the fsm like i said its wrong, ive found several things in the fsm that are incorrect(the biggest being turbocharger warning yet none of our cars came with turbos =/)

the throttle blade isnt going to generate enough of a stopage to build any pressure pre throttle body due to bypass and throttle plate being open(it is open some at idle.) and for it to work there its going to need it in the throttle body within a inch or two of the front of the throttle plate, but like i said no way its going to generate enough stopage.

my car even being FI has pressure pushing out of the driver side valve cover cover at low load where it is not seeing any boost(and still acts like a NA vehicle.)

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

Correct and agreed, the FSM doesn't describe it as pushing, remember air has to come from somewhere, it's a closed system, you can't suck air in a sealed setup.

This would work, i agree, but you're thinking FI The N/A system uses that port to supply air to the crank system, not to *push* air into the crank system.

The plenum on the other end of the PCV system is supplying all the vacuum, it pulls air through the crank that was originally sourced at the intake tubing inlet.

You know, that really sucks, i can't say i've ever had that much trouble! See if they can supply that part number i gave previously, i know that fits, it's a little dinky filter, same as the purolator my car came with.

Erk, that's not so good, can be caused by a lot of 100% open throttle though, still suggests excessive blow-by IMO.


Pressure from the turbo has to overcome the vacuum from the engine before it shows as being in boost. The turbo is always spinning, gasses are passing through, just not spinning it enough to generate enough air to overcome the natural vacuum of the running engine.

Did you disconnect the plenum to PCV valve connection/unseal it? that would stop the natural direction of there being little/no pressure at the drivers side port.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

the point of the pic was to show what would work that port in that pic would have to go to the driver side valve cover, but our cars dont have anything like that its just a hole in a equal sized tube. with the pressure from the driver side port i had both the pcv valve and the driver side port unhooked from the intake and generated pressure. all engines will have a little blow by as well as turbulence from the parts moving which has to exit, anything attempting to enter the driver side port has to overcome that the point i was making is a little tube in the intake tube isnt going to do that, it has to have a greater force to push in there. i get what your saying and it sorta makes sense if the engine where a solid tube with no other factors affecting pressure and vacuum. but since there is pressure being built inside the engine its not enough to escape from the pcv valve alone its going to come out the driver port as well as shown on my engine before i even boosted it. engine did have 100k miles on it but had 150-153 across all cylinders on compression test so wasnt that bad.

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

Yup, i understood the pic and your description, and as i said, i agree, your solution would cause a pressure point and the current setup won't.

If you had the PCV side of the setup disconnected, you'll feel 'pressure' from both sides, caused by blow-by and windage, that's normal and expected, i agree there too.


I also agree about the drivers side air flow having to over come that pressure in order for air from the intake tube to flow from tube to drivers side cover.

The engine kind of is the 'solid tube' but what you're not factoring in, is how the system is 'supposed to work' - it does not rely on the engine doing anything as far as pushing air out of itself.



If you like, you can actually 'start' the PCV system, at the passenger side connection to the plenum, it can make more sense if you start there.

The plenum is under constant vacuum whilst the engine is running, so any pipe connected to it generates quite a vacuum. So the PCV valve pipe, that comes from the plenum to the PCV valve, is sucking, strongly.

From that point, it's sucking more than the engine is generating via blow-by, so it has to get it's air from somewhere, it's a sealed vacuum connection, it can't suck nothing.

Hence the connection from the other side (drivers side) of the engine that latches to the filtered air from the intake tube. That intake tube connection is only there to allow air to be sucked in, not pushed in.


As for your compression,they were even, so good stuff But they're on the low side, lower limit is 142PSI.

Sleeper_Z

iTrader: (7)

Wow something relatively simple has so many people confused including myself in some areas. Have seen soooooo many configurations and explanations with arguments on both sides till I just gave up. Can some of you who clearly understand confirm my setup.

Prior to FI I had the can routed inline from the PCV to front manifold port with no breather on the can, now (FI) I have the front intake port capped and routed the can w/breather from the PCV to the intake port along with the drivers side.

Just to add I have not drilled out my PCV valve.

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

I'm not certain on the FI setups, as i've never looked/thought into it hard enough as i don't have FI.

However, i've seen turbo setup suggestions of, same as normal, but add a can to the intake tube side as well.

Any venting to atmosphere generally doesn't help anything so far as clearing out the crank.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

have a pic? having a hard time picturing your setup with fi in my head.

when you get in depth into the engineering of vehicles there is nothing really simple, everything matters and taking everything into account is what separates the successful build from the disasters. its always the stuff that seems simple that ends up being the problem.

theres really no purpose to have air going into the crankcase it does nothing but hurt performance from extra turbulence inside the crankcase. im not sure why any system could possibly want air going in.

Sleeper_Z

iTrader: (7)

^Very true, but meant simple in the way of being able to config/route the system.

No pics at the moment as I have yet to finalize a verified way of routing my system.

Simply put:

PCV > Breather Can >Intake tube - Driver side directly to Intake tube. This is the way I planned to route it. Also capping the front intake port where the original hose went into the pcv valve.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

you have a vent right? if thats the case instead of running the can to the intake tube run it to the back port on the driver side valve cover, your gona get blow by in boost so that port will blow oil into your intake. if you want it to go into your intake so you dont have smell then ditch the vent(the whole point is to have a exit somewhere, intake or vent dont need both.) and run the driver side valve cover to where the intake tube is and the intake tube to where the breather is. only thing is im not sure how your going to vent during boost since its going to enter the can and the can wont be able to dump into the intake.

a third option is to get one of the exhuast setups that dumps the breather port into the exhuast. i would say go that route or breather, trying to send the air back into the intake on fi is really sub par at best.

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

Performance hit from turbulance inside the crankcase? i think you're over thinking that one

The *whole* reason you want air going into the crank is to clear out the corrosive gasses generated in there, which are really bad mmkay.

F2CMaDMaXX

iTrader: (2)

That's why you have a can on both sides. with the intake from each can fitted to the engine side.

FI will give you blowby from both ports, but ideally you want the air going back into the system again to take advantage of the vacuum from one side.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

ive seen major performance gains from eliminating windage and turbulance inside the crankcase, as much as 75 hp in extreme cases, thats why things like windage trays exist. what corrosive gases? outside of blowby which dosnt need air going to it, it will exit fine on its own through the intake manifold or breather whichever setup you have. the only thing in there that is able to generate and gas is oil, and its only going to generate that if it foaming or aeration as some say, which is going to fry th engine from air being in the oil not any corrosive gases.

what gases exactly are you talking about? because the only thing in the engine that will corrode the engine is coolant which shouldnt be in anywhere but the coolant passages which dont see any part of the pcv system. think we are starting to get into old wives tales now(well mechanic version.) because if there where corrosive gases every race engine and numerous street vehicles would have problems, which even with google i cannot find any issues with engine corroding from "corrosive gases" inside the crank case.