Na 380+ rwhp?
09-30-2012, 08:08 PM
#81
http://www.grand-am.com/Portals/0/Im...egulations.pdf
funny no aftermarket camshafts are approved for use in the z car, the only thing that IS allowed in grand am racing are factory offerings aka NISMO so try again.
or how about this
http://www.grand-am.com/FanInfo/GRAN...gCategory.aspx
ohhhhh heyyyy loook at that the only z cars permitted to make 450hp in a z car is a wait for it........................wait for it.............4.5L v8 like already stated. funny thing is thats just the jgtc cars aka GT class. the lower classes are in the first link.
now lets post the rest of the regulations you put
3-3 Cylinder Heads - Only stock OE or GRAND-AM approved
cylinder heads are permitted. Only steel or titanium valves
are permitted. Only magnetic steel valve springs are
permitted.
67
3-4 Crankshaft – Only magnetic steel crankshafts are permitted.
Unless otherwise approved, the stock angles of the crank
throws must be retained.
3-5 Camshaft, Valve Lifter, and Rocker Arms – Rocker arms,
lifters and steel pushrods may be replaced with aftermarket
components with GRAND-AM approval
can you tell me where it shows aftermarket camshafts are allowed? ooooo thats right it dosnt only rocker arms, lifters, and pushrods and require approval in advance. what you posted is general guidelines, each engine and class has its own requirement not posted in the actual rule book but that class's regulation book.
SECTION 6 - ENGINE LUBRICATION/DRY SUMP
6-1 Oil Reservoir Tank -
6-1.1 Oil reservoir tank must be mounted within the main
chassis framework.
6-1.2 All oil lines must be armor-braided with AN
threaded coupling.
oh look only dry sump is permitted like i said, wanna keep going? your just making yourself look bad and im laughing my *** off at you and i imagine others are too.
funny no aftermarket camshafts are approved for use in the z car, the only thing that IS allowed in grand am racing are factory offerings aka NISMO so try again.
or how about this
http://www.grand-am.com/FanInfo/GRAN...gCategory.aspx
ohhhhh heyyyy loook at that the only z cars permitted to make 450hp in a z car is a wait for it........................wait for it.............4.5L v8 like already stated. funny thing is thats just the jgtc cars aka GT class. the lower classes are in the first link.
now lets post the rest of the regulations you put
3-3 Cylinder Heads - Only stock OE or GRAND-AM approved
cylinder heads are permitted. Only steel or titanium valves
are permitted. Only magnetic steel valve springs are
permitted.
67
3-4 Crankshaft – Only magnetic steel crankshafts are permitted.
Unless otherwise approved, the stock angles of the crank
throws must be retained.
3-5 Camshaft, Valve Lifter, and Rocker Arms – Rocker arms,
lifters and steel pushrods may be replaced with aftermarket
components with GRAND-AM approval
can you tell me where it shows aftermarket camshafts are allowed? ooooo thats right it dosnt only rocker arms, lifters, and pushrods and require approval in advance. what you posted is general guidelines, each engine and class has its own requirement not posted in the actual rule book but that class's regulation book.
SECTION 6 - ENGINE LUBRICATION/DRY SUMP
6-1 Oil Reservoir Tank -
6-1.1 Oil reservoir tank must be mounted within the main
chassis framework.
6-1.2 All oil lines must be armor-braided with AN
threaded coupling.
oh look only dry sump is permitted like i said, wanna keep going? your just making yourself look bad and im laughing my *** off at you and i imagine others are too.
ho ly fuc k man you are annoying
look at what you missed and also this pdf is not the updated version because they do run a quite big cam yeah ok thank you have a good night because you are lowering yourself deeply without knowing the true.
they use a custom piston that need to replace every race ,,, this is one part that isnt listed in that pdf ...
man seriouly you know only what you think you know which is wrong and you arent open to understand what that TBD mean and other addition to the rules to complete with the other race car.
its even writen in their rules that some parts can be approved or permited
Nissan 370Z (3.7) GS
Final Drive: 4.08:1
Fuel capacity: 17
Weight: 2900
Tire size: 245/40/18 front 275/35/18 rear
Approved Modifications
1. Caliper upgrade as per rules.
2. Fuel cell.
Permitted replacement components
Nissan Motorsports Clutch/flywheel kit Part # 3201-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Header 14002-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Adjustable upper control arm 54524/ 54525-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Rear camber link 551A0-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Rear toe link 55110-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Permitted VQ35HR Cylinder Head & Connecting Rod
Permitted Piston Part # TBD
Permitted Grand-Am Approved aftermarket ABS Controller.
Last edited by XChacalX; 09-30-2012 at 08:11 PM.
09-30-2012, 08:09 PM
#82
alot of talk no dyno's not really proving anything without showing calibrations, but 3 hp more is bs, hub dynos ALWAYS read a good amount more because they cannot take the wheel and tire weight into account..... obviously because they are not on the car, the only way the dynapack only reads 3 hp less is if your running drag skinny's on the back. your trying to convince people who actually already have done ****, you cant really win when speaking to experience. you have shown the only experience you have is rehashing what other people tell you.
so ....
like I said way before you start arguing with me ..
I did stated that I did dyno test (His dynapack VS a dynojet)
same day within 2-3 hours max
the result was only 3 whp more on his dynapack
so now you need a mustang dyno sheet to be happy ?
or you are going to argue with me and ask for a 3rd guy to valide what Ive been saying since the beginning.
like I said way before you start arguing with me ..
I did stated that I did dyno test (His dynapack VS a dynojet)
same day within 2-3 hours max
the result was only 3 whp more on his dynapack
so now you need a mustang dyno sheet to be happy ?
or you are going to argue with me and ask for a 3rd guy to valide what Ive been saying since the beginning.
09-30-2012, 08:14 PM
#83
lol so june 1st 2012 isnt updated huh, yah know because its halfway through the race season? because thats the date listed for that pdf, pulled right off there own site as the most up to date revision. no they have NO cams approved but yah you know so much more then the people who actually run the damn racing league i think i dont need to go any further. you dont know what your talking about, someone called you out on it, and you continue to try and argue despite the facts being presented to you
ho ly fuc k man you are annoying
look at what you missed and also this pdf is not the updated version because they do run a quite big cam yeah ok thank you have a good night because you are lowering yourself deeply without knowing the true.
they use a custom piston that need to replace every race ,,, this is one part that isnt listed in that pdf ...
man seriouly you know only what you think you know which is wrong and you arent open to understand what that TBD mean and other addition to the rules to complete with the other race car.
Nissan 370Z (3.7) GS
Final Drive: 4.08:1
Fuel capacity: 17
Weight: 2900
Tire size: 245/40/18 front 275/35/18 rear
Approved Modifications
1. Caliper upgrade as per rules.
2. Fuel cell.
Permitted replacement components
Nissan Motorsports Clutch/flywheel kit Part # 3201-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Header 14002-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Adjustable upper control arm 54524/ 54525-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Rear camber link 551A0-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Rear toe link 55110-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Permitted VQ35HR Cylinder Head & Connecting Rod
Permitted Piston Part # TBD
Permitted Grand-Am Approved aftermarket ABS Controller.
look at what you missed and also this pdf is not the updated version because they do run a quite big cam yeah ok thank you have a good night because you are lowering yourself deeply without knowing the true.
they use a custom piston that need to replace every race ,,, this is one part that isnt listed in that pdf ...
man seriouly you know only what you think you know which is wrong and you arent open to understand what that TBD mean and other addition to the rules to complete with the other race car.
Nissan 370Z (3.7) GS
Final Drive: 4.08:1
Fuel capacity: 17
Weight: 2900
Tire size: 245/40/18 front 275/35/18 rear
Approved Modifications
1. Caliper upgrade as per rules.
2. Fuel cell.
Permitted replacement components
Nissan Motorsports Clutch/flywheel kit Part # 3201-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Header 14002-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Adjustable upper control arm 54524/ 54525-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Rear camber link 551A0-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Nissan Motorsports Rear toe link 55110-SSAM1 Contact NISMO
Permitted VQ35HR Cylinder Head & Connecting Rod
Permitted Piston Part # TBD
Permitted Grand-Am Approved aftermarket ABS Controller.
09-30-2012, 08:15 PM
#84
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hit the nail on the head rod, im tired of idiots anything worthwhile anymore is pretty much done through email or pm's i update my thread but thats about it and not really discussing anything there.
of course i still say no to NA you just cant compete with the engine speeds needed =/ gotta remember engine speed puts just as much stress as a bigger boom from FI the engines are no more reliable and make significantly less power.
for your last post rod, you dint add the secret sauce to the engine thats why its so low duhhhh.
of course i still say no to NA you just cant compete with the engine speeds needed =/ gotta remember engine speed puts just as much stress as a bigger boom from FI the engines are no more reliable and make significantly less power.
for your last post rod, you dint add the secret sauce to the engine thats why its so low duhhhh.
09-30-2012, 08:17 PM
#85
ok ok let see if you can answer this ...
you mister than know everything
how come in that rules book that they arent supose to run with a different ecu
but they now use the bosch spec ecu ...
dont tell me they are also only permited to use the OEM HR camshaft
that would be a joke , right
because other car have a RULES to MUST USE this or that
the 370z with the VQ37HR that use the HR head can use different Cam...
anyway I wrote enough facts that even then you fail to understand that you know only what you think you know
you mister than know everything
how come in that rules book that they arent supose to run with a different ecu
but they now use the bosch spec ecu ...
dont tell me they are also only permited to use the OEM HR camshaft
that would be a joke , right
because other car have a RULES to MUST USE this or that
the 370z with the VQ37HR that use the HR head can use different Cam...
anyway I wrote enough facts that even then you fail to understand that you know only what you think you know
09-30-2012, 08:28 PM
#88
actually read the rule books it says that the bosch ecus are the only approved ecus...............
you have yet to present a single fact simply what someone has told you and has told you wrong, i have presented actual facts with the rules books, you attempted to take a single part out of context and yah actually the oem cranks are what is used, why would they need different? the cranks will hold up to far more abuse then anything grand am can throw at them.
but i guess in your world nascar also runs independent rear suspension, funny cars use electronic fuel injection, and f1 runs tin turbo v12's because yah know who needs rules they are just there so the drivers have toilet paper
the rules are very specific for a reason and no deviation is allowed, because otherwise if your not people come around and do **** like smokey yunick used to do and try to pull the "the rule book dint say i COULDNT do it"
and as far as the original intent of the thread its already been said, not gona happen without 20k, a cold as **** day, a hub dyno, and a whole lot of luck
you have yet to present a single fact simply what someone has told you and has told you wrong, i have presented actual facts with the rules books, you attempted to take a single part out of context and yah actually the oem cranks are what is used, why would they need different? the cranks will hold up to far more abuse then anything grand am can throw at them.
but i guess in your world nascar also runs independent rear suspension, funny cars use electronic fuel injection, and f1 runs tin turbo v12's because yah know who needs rules they are just there so the drivers have toilet paper
the rules are very specific for a reason and no deviation is allowed, because otherwise if your not people come around and do **** like smokey yunick used to do and try to pull the "the rule book dint say i COULDNT do it"
and as far as the original intent of the thread its already been said, not gona happen without 20k, a cold as **** day, a hub dyno, and a whole lot of luck
ok ok let see if you can answer this ...
you mister than know everything
how come in that rules book that they arent supose to run with a different ecu
but they now use the bosch spec ecu ...
dont tell me they are also only permited to use the OEM HR camshaft
that would be a joke , right
because other car have a RULES to MUST USE this or that
the 370z with the VQ37HR that use the HR head can use different Cam...
anyway I wrote enough facts that even then you fail to understand that you know only what you think you know
you mister than know everything
how come in that rules book that they arent supose to run with a different ecu
but they now use the bosch spec ecu ...
dont tell me they are also only permited to use the OEM HR camshaft
that would be a joke , right
because other car have a RULES to MUST USE this or that
the 370z with the VQ37HR that use the HR head can use different Cam...
anyway I wrote enough facts that even then you fail to understand that you know only what you think you know
Last edited by jerryd87; 09-30-2012 at 08:30 PM.
09-30-2012, 08:31 PM
#89
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Lots to learn here but anyone else think the OP is chacal?
Original question was does anyone here have 380(w)hp NA and that promptly grew into a thirsty monster that seems to be wrecklessly swinging from branch to branch between platforms and applications. That and the "op" hasn't been here for almost 3 pages. (edit: whoops- conveniently enough he came in to broke back mountain the situation.)
Jerry doesn't have anything to prove around this peer group and his contributions to the community are beyond reproach. There is such an absence of objectivity in the argument that has spawned that even a fish could derail the most accurately delivered statement from either one of you.
You're both passionate about the subject- clearly. If you both think the other is a moron- stop stooping to the others level and allowing them to beat you with experience.
Original question was does anyone here have 380(w)hp NA and that promptly grew into a thirsty monster that seems to be wrecklessly swinging from branch to branch between platforms and applications. That and the "op" hasn't been here for almost 3 pages. (edit: whoops- conveniently enough he came in to broke back mountain the situation.)
Jerry doesn't have anything to prove around this peer group and his contributions to the community are beyond reproach. There is such an absence of objectivity in the argument that has spawned that even a fish could derail the most accurately delivered statement from either one of you.
You're both passionate about the subject- clearly. If you both think the other is a moron- stop stooping to the others level and allowing them to beat you with experience.
Last edited by Eno; 09-30-2012 at 08:34 PM.
09-30-2012, 08:41 PM
#91
Ding...ding...ding...
Call out your fellow canadian...
Call out your fellow canadian...
Lots to learn here but anyone else think the OP is chacal?
Original question was does anyone here have 380(w)hp NA and that promptly grew into a thirsty monster that seems to be wrecklessly swinging from branch to branch between platforms and applications. That and the "op" hasn't been here for almost 3 pages. (edit: whoops- conveniently enough he came in to broke back mountain the situation.)
Jerry doesn't have anything to prove around this peer group and his contributions to the community are beyond reproach. There is such an absence of objectivity in the argument that has spawned that even a fish could derail the most accurately delivered statement from either one of you.
You're both passionate about the subject- clearly. If you both think the other is a moron- stop stooping to the others level and allowing them to beat you with experience.
Original question was does anyone here have 380(w)hp NA and that promptly grew into a thirsty monster that seems to be wrecklessly swinging from branch to branch between platforms and applications. That and the "op" hasn't been here for almost 3 pages. (edit: whoops- conveniently enough he came in to broke back mountain the situation.)
Jerry doesn't have anything to prove around this peer group and his contributions to the community are beyond reproach. There is such an absence of objectivity in the argument that has spawned that even a fish could derail the most accurately delivered statement from either one of you.
You're both passionate about the subject- clearly. If you both think the other is a moron- stop stooping to the others level and allowing them to beat you with experience.
09-30-2012, 08:46 PM
#93
so ....
like I said way before you start arguing with me ..
I did stated that I did dyno test (His dynapack VS a dynojet)
same day within 2-3 hours max
the result was only 3 whp more on his dynapack
so now you need a mustang dyno sheet to be happy ?
or you are going to argue with me and ask for a 3rd guy to valide what Ive been saying since the beginning.
like I said way before you start arguing with me ..
I did stated that I did dyno test (His dynapack VS a dynojet)
same day within 2-3 hours max
the result was only 3 whp more on his dynapack
so now you need a mustang dyno sheet to be happy ?
or you are going to argue with me and ask for a 3rd guy to valide what Ive been saying since the beginning.
- it was done on a hub dyno in very cold ambient temps
- there has been no proof shown that the SG car achieved similar numbers on another dyno and/or in more normal temp conditions
- nobody else in the VQ community has posted anything close to 370whp dyno results on this forum with a similar NA build
That 372whp dyno would have much more credibility if any dyno numbers in the neighborhood of 370whp could be duplicated by SG or anybody else in more normal conditions.
Do you really think that car will make close to 372whp on a 70 or 80°F day???
09-30-2012, 08:52 PM
#94
nobody else in the VQ community has posted anything close to 370whp dyno results on this forum with a similar NA build
That 372whp dyno would have much more credibility if any dyno numbers in the neighborhood of 370whp could be duplicated by SG or anybody else in more normal conditions.
Do you really think that car will make close to 372whp on a 70 or 80°F day???
That 372whp dyno would have much more credibility if any dyno numbers in the neighborhood of 370whp could be duplicated by SG or anybody else in more normal conditions.
Do you really think that car will make close to 372whp on a 70 or 80°F day???
and to return back your question ...
Show me someone that has a similar NA build
I will be happy to read that !
09-30-2012, 08:57 PM
#95
and if I remember correctly around October he did a test by popping the upper plenum and got 360... then like 2 months later before he closed in December ,, its when he did his ITB test
just as a reference....
take it as you wish I dont really care
Last edited by XChacalX; 09-30-2012 at 09:00 PM.
09-30-2012, 09:05 PM
#96
far less, the fact that snow was sticking to the ground indicates it was 32 degrees or less that means at sea level there would be about .080 lb per cubic foot of air density, on a 80 degree that at sea level that would drop to about .073 so roughly 9% less air in the engine. from here we calculate the very generous 372 by 91% since the air will be 9% less dense so the engine is ingesting 9% less air and thus 9% less fuel to compensate and achieve proper AF ratios and we come up with 338.52................ a number that while still mayby a tad bit high but a good rough estimate figure for what it would produce in normal conditions.
theres a reason i run pure meth vs water/meth colder intake temps make a significant difference. you can check the math if you want
theres a reason i run pure meth vs water/meth colder intake temps make a significant difference. you can check the math if you want
Last edited by jerryd87; 09-30-2012 at 09:07 PM.
09-30-2012, 09:12 PM
#97
far less, the fact that snow was sticking to the ground indicates it was 32 degrees or less that means at sea level there would be about .080 lb per cubic foot of air density, on a 80 degree that at sea level that would drop to about .073 so roughly 9% less air in the engine. from here we calculate the very generous 372 by 91% since the air will be 9% less dense so the engine is ingesting 9% less air and thus 9% less fuel to compensate and achieve proper AF ratios and we come up with 338.52................ a number that while still mayby a tad bit high but a good rough estimate figure for what it would produce in normal conditions.
theres a reason i run pure meth vs water/meth colder intake temps make a significant difference. you can check the math if you want
theres a reason i run pure meth vs water/meth colder intake temps make a significant difference. you can check the math if you want
it was registered at 50F brampton is at around 204m altitude as for the rest ,,, I do not know
soo 332whp at 80F
that mean his ITB made less power than his OEM modified upper plenum ?
that is ridiculous man
as if he did 332whp when he did on that same dyno 340 during summer time which is over 85F+
edit; Im gonna have to ask him but I heard a few years back that there was a weather station/module that can be added to the dyno and no matter what is the real outside temp ... it does the calculation to give a standard result ...
Last edited by XChacalX; 09-30-2012 at 09:15 PM.
09-30-2012, 09:29 PM
#99
far less, the fact that snow was sticking to the ground indicates it was 32 degrees or less that means at sea level there would be about .080 lb per cubic foot of air density, on a 80 degree that at sea level that would drop to about .073 so roughly 9% less air in the engine. from here we calculate the very generous 372 by 91% since the air will be 9% less dense so the engine is ingesting 9% less air and thus 9% less fuel to compensate and achieve proper AF ratios and we come up with 338.52................ a number that while still mayby a tad bit high but a good rough estimate figure for what it would produce in normal conditions.
theres a reason i run pure meth vs water/meth colder intake temps make a significant difference. you can check the math if you want
theres a reason i run pure meth vs water/meth colder intake temps make a significant difference. you can check the math if you want
pretty much relied to SAE reading
no matter what the weather , temp ,pressure atl ,,, on the same dyno it will be the same no matter when it was done
its why I never gained much of anything during winter time and when I went back during the summer.
IF i wrong then well thats what I also got.
09-30-2012, 09:35 PM
#100
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so after a quick research I came up with this
pretty much relied to SAE reading
no matter what the weather , temp ,pressure atl ,,, on the same dyno it will be the same no matter when it was done
its why I never gained much of anything during winter time and when I went back during the summer.
IF i wrong then well thats what I also got.
pretty much relied to SAE reading
no matter what the weather , temp ,pressure atl ,,, on the same dyno it will be the same no matter when it was done
its why I never gained much of anything during winter time and when I went back during the summer.
IF i wrong then well thats what I also got.
The dyno may be the same but the car putting down power isn't. Due to those factors a car may be stronger or weaker.