Stroker Kit
04-06-2004, 08:09 AM
#62
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is it safe to assume that the required additional mods to support a NA buildup would be:
fuel injectors, ECU flash / new engine management, cam, re-worked heads, clutch
and the optional:
headers, exhaust, plenum, intake
any thoughts about what a 11.0 CR build up with both required and optional mods, would produce on the HP and torque basis. total cost would probably be higher than just adding a low boost turbo or sc to the stock engine, but wondering how the powerband would be different
fuel injectors, ECU flash / new engine management, cam, re-worked heads, clutch
and the optional:
headers, exhaust, plenum, intake
any thoughts about what a 11.0 CR build up with both required and optional mods, would produce on the HP and torque basis. total cost would probably be higher than just adding a low boost turbo or sc to the stock engine, but wondering how the powerband would be different
04-06-2004, 09:24 AM
#63
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I just got off the phone with AEBS.
They have 3 kits in stock, a 8.5:1, 10:1, and 11.5:1 compression.
It will be 10 weeks before they can get anymore due to crank production.
Total cost is 7800$ with sleeves installed.
They have 3 kits in stock, a 8.5:1, 10:1, and 11.5:1 compression.
It will be 10 weeks before they can get anymore due to crank production.
Total cost is 7800$ with sleeves installed.
04-06-2004, 09:29 AM
#64
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We just got wind of this on Maxima.org. I'll just copy what I said over there.
"That pic advertizes the 90mm stroke that I have been saying the new VQ40DE would have to be. This one appears to have the sleeves and bores cut paper thin and they added a custom made one piece deck cap/bore sleeve. Notice the solid iron deck. This is what will carry the VQ into the 1000+ hp 2JZ territory and will propel the 350Z intot he super tuner car catagory. Very nice find. "
"That picture is also full of misprints.
It lists the following:
Turbo 8.5:1 with 100mm bore and 90mm stroke = 4231.16cc
That does not add up. That equals 4241.15cc
NA (Both compressions) 101.5mm bore and 90mm stroke = 4269.35cc
That is also wrong. The correct product for that is 4369.39cc
So my question is which of these posted dimensions are correct and which ones are not?
I should call these people and ask them how they can machine a block to such a degree but they can't do simple auto math. "
"That pic advertizes the 90mm stroke that I have been saying the new VQ40DE would have to be. This one appears to have the sleeves and bores cut paper thin and they added a custom made one piece deck cap/bore sleeve. Notice the solid iron deck. This is what will carry the VQ into the 1000+ hp 2JZ territory and will propel the 350Z intot he super tuner car catagory. Very nice find. "
"That picture is also full of misprints.
It lists the following:
Turbo 8.5:1 with 100mm bore and 90mm stroke = 4231.16cc
That does not add up. That equals 4241.15cc
NA (Both compressions) 101.5mm bore and 90mm stroke = 4269.35cc
That is also wrong. The correct product for that is 4369.39cc
So my question is which of these posted dimensions are correct and which ones are not?
I should call these people and ask them how they can machine a block to such a degree but they can't do simple auto math. "
04-06-2004, 10:26 AM
#65
Originally posted by newtkindred
I wonder how light the rods and crank are. That would influence the response of the engine. What about adding a knife edge to the crank too.
I wonder how light the rods and crank are. That would influence the response of the engine. What about adding a knife edge to the crank too.
04-06-2004, 11:21 AM
#66
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Originally posted by frenzee
I aked them about this at the show and they said the rods and the crank were NOT forged, so I'm assuming they are NOT light -- bummer. Someone should make eihter forged or better yet Ti rods for this setup. It needs it. A forged crank wouldn't hurt either.
I aked them about this at the show and they said the rods and the crank were NOT forged, so I'm assuming they are NOT light -- bummer. Someone should make eihter forged or better yet Ti rods for this setup. It needs it. A forged crank wouldn't hurt either.
I would be surprised if the crank was not forged from the factory.....many japanese performance cars are.
04-06-2004, 12:34 PM
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Eh? When I asked them, they told me everything's forged. I doubt cast pistons (Pauter rods are forged for sure) can hold all the power they claim.
04-06-2004, 12:41 PM
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Okay, here are a few questions:
1) On the website, they say "In a collaborating effort, AEBS and ROSS Racing Pistons have shared R&D resources to engineer the best-forged pistons available on the market to date." Which tells me that the pistons the sell are forged, as they do not mention any other type. But assuming they aren't what's to stop someone from buying 8.5:1 pistons from somewhere else (SGP Racing) and using them on what G356gear says are forged rods?
2)Why would they EVER not forge the crankshaft in what is obviously a high-power/high-torque application?
3)Are these the first sleeves with "solid deck technology" to come on the market and if so, why aren't the guys looking for a built VQ35 jumping on this?
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not as well versed in mechanical goings-on as I would like to be. Too many questions are being asked repeatedly, can some engineering student/knowledgable vendor call these guys and then give the rest of us a thorough explaination? Thanks.
1) On the website, they say "In a collaborating effort, AEBS and ROSS Racing Pistons have shared R&D resources to engineer the best-forged pistons available on the market to date." Which tells me that the pistons the sell are forged, as they do not mention any other type. But assuming they aren't what's to stop someone from buying 8.5:1 pistons from somewhere else (SGP Racing) and using them on what G356gear says are forged rods?
2)Why would they EVER not forge the crankshaft in what is obviously a high-power/high-torque application?
3)Are these the first sleeves with "solid deck technology" to come on the market and if so, why aren't the guys looking for a built VQ35 jumping on this?
Please forgive my ignorance, I'm not as well versed in mechanical goings-on as I would like to be. Too many questions are being asked repeatedly, can some engineering student/knowledgable vendor call these guys and then give the rest of us a thorough explaination? Thanks.
04-06-2004, 02:51 PM
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The Nissan crank is fine! I am sure it is good for 800+ hp or more. Just about every crank that has come out of nissan has been forged. The VQ35 crank is bigger and stronger than the VQ30 crank.
I just want to know if the crank is a different size giving the motor a higher stroke or is it the bore of the engine that gets it too 4.3 liters. I would rather save 1500+ dollars on the crank if I can get the motor to say 4.0 liters with the solid iron sleeves. If anything the sleeves can wistand 55 psi not the connecting rods and not the pistons.
I just want to know if the crank is a different size giving the motor a higher stroke or is it the bore of the engine that gets it too 4.3 liters. I would rather save 1500+ dollars on the crank if I can get the motor to say 4.0 liters with the solid iron sleeves. If anything the sleeves can wistand 55 psi not the connecting rods and not the pistons.
04-06-2004, 03:58 PM
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guys - every crank to come on every car since the freakin' Pinto is forged...it's common place, and nothing all that special or exotic in and of itself. As with anything involving the automotive world, there are processes that make one forged crank better than another. How this one differs from stock I would be happy to enquire about.
"Are these the first sleeves with "solid deck technology" to come on the market"
For the VQ - probably, yes, though its been done for awhile now on other cars. We just finished a Subaru 2.5 liter that we custom built a deck plater for. We did not sleeve the block, as ours was not sleeved to begin with - instead it was coated, as is commong to some of the higher HP Porsche motors. I forget the name of the process, but I can ask the machinest tomorrow if you guys want to know.
Why aren't people jumping on it? many people have - AEBS is a VERy busy shop and has been for a while now. However, I don't think anyone has found the practical limits of the stock open deck design just yet, but which might be part of the equation.
As for propelling the VQ in to 2JZ land - sorry to say, but ain't gonna happen. The block is not even the true limiting factor here, as the block can be built to withstand nearly anything you can throw at it. Given the same displacement, the heads make the power. Have you ever seen the heads on the car? You are not going to get 1000 hp with any sort of ease. There is reason there are not many 1000 hp Z32 TT running around......
The crank AEBS uses is not the 4.0 liter crank from the Frontier (I spent a long time on the phone with Ben, the owner, today about this setup). It was a custom billet piece they had built.
The rods and pistons are obviously forged units
The motor can rev to the same level as the stock one does - not much higher though.
"Are these the first sleeves with "solid deck technology" to come on the market"
For the VQ - probably, yes, though its been done for awhile now on other cars. We just finished a Subaru 2.5 liter that we custom built a deck plater for. We did not sleeve the block, as ours was not sleeved to begin with - instead it was coated, as is commong to some of the higher HP Porsche motors. I forget the name of the process, but I can ask the machinest tomorrow if you guys want to know.
Why aren't people jumping on it? many people have - AEBS is a VERy busy shop and has been for a while now. However, I don't think anyone has found the practical limits of the stock open deck design just yet, but which might be part of the equation.
As for propelling the VQ in to 2JZ land - sorry to say, but ain't gonna happen. The block is not even the true limiting factor here, as the block can be built to withstand nearly anything you can throw at it. Given the same displacement, the heads make the power. Have you ever seen the heads on the car? You are not going to get 1000 hp with any sort of ease. There is reason there are not many 1000 hp Z32 TT running around......
The crank AEBS uses is not the 4.0 liter crank from the Frontier (I spent a long time on the phone with Ben, the owner, today about this setup). It was a custom billet piece they had built.
The rods and pistons are obviously forged units
The motor can rev to the same level as the stock one does - not much higher though.
04-07-2004, 06:33 AM
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The cost is $7800 for any of the three CR's offered, which includes the crank, pistons, rods, rings, and the cost of sleeving your block. It does not incluide installation of the short block components, though it can be done for an extra charge (though they are very busy at the moment since its race season)
Adam
Adam
04-07-2004, 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
As for propelling the VQ in to 2JZ land - sorry to say, but ain't gonna happen. The block is not even the true limiting factor here, as the block can be built to withstand nearly anything you can throw at it. Given the same displacement, the heads make the power. Have you ever seen the heads on the car? You are not going to get 1000 hp with any sort of ease. There is reason there are not many 1000 hp Z32 TT running around......
As for propelling the VQ in to 2JZ land - sorry to say, but ain't gonna happen. The block is not even the true limiting factor here, as the block can be built to withstand nearly anything you can throw at it. Given the same displacement, the heads make the power. Have you ever seen the heads on the car? You are not going to get 1000 hp with any sort of ease. There is reason there are not many 1000 hp Z32 TT running around......
Also, the earlier VG30 cranks found in the A31 Maxima were cast cranks, not forged.
04-07-2004, 09:30 AM
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What is wrong with the VQ's heads???? There are people in australia who have gotten 600 whp from a stock VQ30DET(8:5:1 compression). This will definitly get the VQ into 1000 hp territory with the solid iron deck!
Last edited by turbo-maxima; 04-07-2004 at 09:35 AM.
04-07-2004, 09:54 AM
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Have a skilled engine builder look at them and tell you what he thinks.
As for the dyno numbers, you can get them to say whatever you want quite honestly. Don't fall for the #'s people post all the time, as there tend to be HUGE differences between dynos, even the same type of dyno, from region to region.
Not to mention 600 hp is a far cry from 1000 hp, but I digress
As for the dyno numbers, you can get them to say whatever you want quite honestly. Don't fall for the #'s people post all the time, as there tend to be HUGE differences between dynos, even the same type of dyno, from region to region.
Not to mention 600 hp is a far cry from 1000 hp, but I digress
04-07-2004, 10:46 AM
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I NEED
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Have a skilled engine builder look at them and tell you what he thinks.
As for the dyno numbers, you can get them to say whatever you want quite honestly. Don't fall for the #'s people post all the time, as there tend to be HUGE differences between dynos, even the same type of dyno, from region to region.
Not to mention 600 hp is a far cry from 1000 hp, but I digress
Have a skilled engine builder look at them and tell you what he thinks.
As for the dyno numbers, you can get them to say whatever you want quite honestly. Don't fall for the #'s people post all the time, as there tend to be HUGE differences between dynos, even the same type of dyno, from region to region.
Not to mention 600 hp is a far cry from 1000 hp, but I digress