Concerns over Premier Membership
04-14-2005, 02:08 PM
#21
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No,
The server itself was 4500, and the site is growing to a point that we are going to have to segment the database soon which is going to be at least another $4500.
That doesn't include monthly bandwidth costs, or other networking hardware that goes into the site. Let alone a F5 load balance somewhere around $10,000. He doesn't understand so he's going to scream and yell like a 2 year old that runs linux on old POS boxes thinking it'll scale and be reliable.
The server itself was 4500, and the site is growing to a point that we are going to have to segment the database soon which is going to be at least another $4500.
That doesn't include monthly bandwidth costs, or other networking hardware that goes into the site. Let alone a F5 load balance somewhere around $10,000. He doesn't understand so he's going to scream and yell like a 2 year old that runs linux on old POS boxes thinking it'll scale and be reliable.
Originally Posted by Bubble
Kyle,
just wonder about the cost. $4500 is monthly fee you have to pay for dedicate server service or the cost to build one?
just wonder about the cost. $4500 is monthly fee you have to pay for dedicate server service or the cost to build one?
04-14-2005, 02:19 PM
#22
Originally Posted by silvrhand
No,
The server itself was 4500, and the site is growing to a point that we are going to have to segment the database soon which is going to be at least another $4500.
That doesn't include monthly bandwidth costs, or other networking hardware that goes into the site. Let alone a F5 load balance somewhere around $10,000. He doesn't understand so he's going to scream and yell like a 2 year old that runs linux on old POS boxes thinking it'll scale and be reliable.
The server itself was 4500, and the site is growing to a point that we are going to have to segment the database soon which is going to be at least another $4500.
That doesn't include monthly bandwidth costs, or other networking hardware that goes into the site. Let alone a F5 load balance somewhere around $10,000. He doesn't understand so he's going to scream and yell like a 2 year old that runs linux on old POS boxes thinking it'll scale and be reliable.
04-14-2005, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubble
Kyle,
just wonder about the cost. $4500 is monthly fee you have to pay for dedicate server service or the cost to build one?
just wonder about the cost. $4500 is monthly fee you have to pay for dedicate server service or the cost to build one?
04-14-2005, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by silvrhand
No,
The server itself was 4500, and the site is growing to a point that we are going to have to segment the database soon which is going to be at least another $4500.
That doesn't include monthly bandwidth costs, or other networking hardware that goes into the site. Let alone a F5 load balance somewhere around $10,000. He doesn't understand so he's going to scream and yell like a 2 year old that runs linux on old POS boxes thinking it'll scale and be reliable.
The server itself was 4500, and the site is growing to a point that we are going to have to segment the database soon which is going to be at least another $4500.
That doesn't include monthly bandwidth costs, or other networking hardware that goes into the site. Let alone a F5 load balance somewhere around $10,000. He doesn't understand so he's going to scream and yell like a 2 year old that runs linux on old POS boxes thinking it'll scale and be reliable.
But hey good luck with all your future endeavors.
04-14-2005, 02:25 PM
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I was talking about Wicked4u2c, not the guy that asked about the server.
Originally Posted by GodZilla
He didnt seem him scream or yell it was a simple question.
04-14-2005, 02:28 PM
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It's something Kyle can offer now for the higher bandwidth/cpu benefits to help offset the cost. It's not the end of offerings for Premium members, but it's a start.
BTW: Asking for donations is just that asking, you hardly get anyone that donates to the site. You would probably be suprised to find out it's about 1-2% return rate on asking for donations.
BTW: Asking for donations is just that asking, you hardly get anyone that donates to the site. You would probably be suprised to find out it's about 1-2% return rate on asking for donations.
Originally Posted by Wicked4u2c
LOL! Honestly I can careless, but lets cut the bull$hit and you wouldn't be forking out THOUSAND's OF DOLLARS if you weren't going to benefit from it. You make it seem like your spending spending spending but not receiving anything from it. My point was other forums don't do this, and that's cool I know you have the bills to pay but puting out there "Member Benefits" doesn't seem like a REAL DEAL at least for the price your paying and what your getting in return. Ive seen sites with DONATIONS to keep the site running and thats cool, but "member benefits", first thing I thought was COOL! Maybe monthly giveaways, maybe even free stickers of my350z.com or etc... IM just giving you ideas, not "change avatar, BOLD your name" when you start adding stuff like that it seems you guys couldn't have thought of something better to give for "benefits" you had to just TAKE AWAY what we had before. $hit im surprised we are still allowed to use smilieys and that hasn't been taken out yet... But hey good luck with all your future endeavors.
But hey good luck with all your future endeavors.
04-14-2005, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GodZilla
He said upkeep not server cost. But FYI the server we just purchaced was $4500 and we are already looking at getting possibly getting a second along with some other needed hardware. Some of the software also costs money.
However, its not all about the hardware or software.
So have I and prior to a year ago it was way to hard to implement a subsription base. Fact is there are several others that I know that are starting to do it and several more that are working on it now.
Well thanks for hanging around so long. It keeps getting worse? Is that so? A few months ago the site kept crashing. Me and a few others spent countless hours behind the scenes fixing that along with upgrading the site. But sound like in your opinion our time is worth nothing and could have been spent better somewhere else.
Honestly, when I see posts like that it makes me not even want to spend my time putting all the effort into it that I do. But I know there are many others on the site that do appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. So I keep plugging away.
Just by posting people "CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR SITE"
Sure but Linkin Park has a larger audience base and they are dealing in bulk. Bulk is way cheaper. The bulk they deal with is way larger than anything we could ever get. Were talking tens of thousands as compared to a few hundred. To them though becoming a member is more or less and advertising exspense than anything else what do you think helps drive those sold out concerts.
Sorry if I'm ranting its just that I wish some people could clearly understand how much effort goes into a site like this,
Yes its site is what is is partly due to members (which we appreciate a lot) but if no-one was on the backend doing things the site wouldnt go no where either.
However, its not all about the hardware or software.
So have I and prior to a year ago it was way to hard to implement a subsription base. Fact is there are several others that I know that are starting to do it and several more that are working on it now.
Well thanks for hanging around so long. It keeps getting worse? Is that so? A few months ago the site kept crashing. Me and a few others spent countless hours behind the scenes fixing that along with upgrading the site. But sound like in your opinion our time is worth nothing and could have been spent better somewhere else.
Honestly, when I see posts like that it makes me not even want to spend my time putting all the effort into it that I do. But I know there are many others on the site that do appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. So I keep plugging away.
Just by posting people "CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR SITE"
Sure but Linkin Park has a larger audience base and they are dealing in bulk. Bulk is way cheaper. The bulk they deal with is way larger than anything we could ever get. Were talking tens of thousands as compared to a few hundred. To them though becoming a member is more or less and advertising exspense than anything else what do you think helps drive those sold out concerts.
Sorry if I'm ranting its just that I wish some people could clearly understand how much effort goes into a site like this,
Yes its site is what is is partly due to members (which we appreciate a lot) but if no-one was on the backend doing things the site wouldnt go no where either.
04-14-2005, 02:33 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Wicked4u2c
LOL! Honestly I can careless, but lets cut the bull$hit and you wouldn't be forking out THOUSAND's OF DOLLARS if you weren't going to benefit from it. You make it seem like your spending spending spending but not receiving anything from it. My point was other forums don't do this, and that's cool I know you have the bills to pay but puting out there "Member Benefits" doesn't seem like a REAL DEAL at least for the price your paying and what your getting in return. Ive seen sites with DONATIONS to keep the site running and thats cool, but "member benefits", first thing I thought was COOL! Maybe monthly giveaways, maybe even free stickers of my350z.com or etc... IM just giving you ideas, not "change avatar, BOLD your name" when you start adding stuff like that it seems you guys couldn't have thought of something better to give for "benefits" you had to just TAKE AWAY what we had before. $hit im surprised we are still allowed to use smilieys and that hasn't been taken out yet... But hey good luck with all your future endeavors.
But hey good luck with all your future endeavors.
04-15-2005, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffw
I saw that this is the current list of benefits for Premier Membership subscribers ($29.95):
Most of these seem reasonable (even if things like the avatar pic is a bummer). However, the three that I made bold worry me.
First of all, I can't see how the vendor/sponsors will be happy about the group buy rule which will cut down on customers. Also, the vendor fees to my350z are already embedded in the cost of their goods. So it's like customers are being taxed twice to participate in a group buy.
The attachments rule could hurt Premier Members if the attachment size limitation becomes unreasonably strict. If non-payers have trouble figuring out how to compress an image small enough to attach, they won't bother. That means less new info for those paying for the subscription.
And the third one concerns me because people come to the website for info about 350zs. What if someone creates their own "how-to" thread that covers the same topic as an exclusive website how-to article? Will the thread be deleted because it reduces the value of the article?
--
Jeff
Most of these seem reasonable (even if things like the avatar pic is a bummer). However, the three that I made bold worry me.
First of all, I can't see how the vendor/sponsors will be happy about the group buy rule which will cut down on customers. Also, the vendor fees to my350z are already embedded in the cost of their goods. So it's like customers are being taxed twice to participate in a group buy.
The attachments rule could hurt Premier Members if the attachment size limitation becomes unreasonably strict. If non-payers have trouble figuring out how to compress an image small enough to attach, they won't bother. That means less new info for those paying for the subscription.
And the third one concerns me because people come to the website for info about 350zs. What if someone creates their own "how-to" thread that covers the same topic as an exclusive website how-to article? Will the thread be deleted because it reduces the value of the article?
--
Jeff
This is very sad. I find it extremely sick that this site has such little respect for others in the z community. Every idea that we have come up with for our site, has now been taken and used on this site to make money.. In fact some of the better ideas are now being charged a "premium". We offer this stuff as a free service to our members, and the people here want to make a quick buck from others hard work..
And do not try to deny stealing our ideas, I have seen you poking around our site, asking questions in the chatroom.. and even a few of the people running this place i have spoken with over aim.
I do not doubt this post will be deleted.. or even responded to. This is typical of this site..
It is really sad, because i was once a "premier" member here. And i guess my contributions help make this site what it is today.. I still get emails and PMs from people on this site with technical related questions regarding posts i have made in the past.
The idea that most people are good, is pretty much an idea that no longer stands with me. I guess it applies here as well.
04-15-2005, 07:50 AM
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Its your site to do what you want with, and more power to you. I have noticed though, that since the group buy issue and the premiere membership, post counts are going up at the other Z forums. For example, after a day, I usually have 11 new pages here and 3-4 at motoring. Well motoring is up to 8 per day. Truthfully, the same posts are made at every forum, by the same people, the only value of this one is the classifieds.
04-15-2005, 08:29 AM
#31
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various rants by Wicked...
First, cut the crap with caps. By what in effect is yelling at others on this forum, you lessen your points by making it seem you are more of a hothead than someone genuinely concerned about the website.
For your info, I got half of $59,900 from doing basic math (which I think you understand since you generated the first $59,900 figure). If upkeep (not purchase of hardware) costs $2500 and there are 12 months in a year, annual upkeep = $30,000... approximately half of $59,900 (which you stated as 2000 1-year members x $29.95 each).
And yes, I'm sure the webmasters want more money... it takes money to keep a website with 45K+ members running. I haven't visited all the other car forums you mentioned, but I bet most of them don't have near this many members or the number of threads 350Z maintains. Also, the 350Z community appears to be growing faster. The only forum with as many members as my350z.com is ClubSI.com and they've been around a good bit longer. Is this the right way to get that money?... that's what is arguable. I stated my reason for contributing which I think is very valid... I've spent more money on stuff for my Z that I wound up never using or throwing away.
Umm... no.... you have not been here since the start. You joined in Dec 2002 (says so under your avatar). This site was started in early 2002... so, you have been here a long time, but not since the start.
And, yes, I think everyone knows the site (operationally) got bad for quite a while. If you lived through that period several months ago, there is no way you can possibly think it has not improved in more recent months. At this point, I think it (operationally) is better than it has ever been. Now content-wise, I think it continues to go downhill, but that's mostly because of boneheaded posts... not that I'm making any judgments about your posts, of course!
Holy Crap! 
How is that even a valid comparison?! I like Linkin Park... I just checked out their website. Here's what you get...
- LPU 4 enhanced CD of exclusive audio tracks and videos
- New exclusive LP Underground t-shirt
- LPU Wristband, Pin, Sticker, Guitar Pick, Welcome Letter and Membership Card
- Linkin Park Photo and Annual Newsletter Poster
- Access to members-only website featuring exclusive content and LPU merchandise online
- 15% Discount on most items at LinkinParkMerch.com
- And MORE!
Great benefits, I agree! But... ummm.... that isn't exactly a web forum for discimination of knowledge about Linkin' Park. That... is... a fan club. I presume somewhere in the members section there may be a forum, but you cannot post at all unless you are a member. At least here you can post whether you become a premier member or not.
If you "honestly could care less" (as opposed to careless, which is the trait of an individual), then why do you keep ranting.
Let's see... those who have started the Premier Membership thing have already said there would be giveaways for Premier Members... so maybe you should go back and do some reading. They have mentioned they intend to do more, but you know what? It's hard to announce what your going to do until you know how much you have in the way of resources. And since this is a completely new venture for this website, I'm sure they have no way of guessing how many Premier Members they will wind up with. I'm sure once they do, we'll see more incentives for being a Premier Member. But, as with any new thing, it must develop. Honestly, the things they "have taken away" are pretty inconsequential to the reason for having a forum... to get information. Avatar? Bold name? I give a rat's butt when I'm trying to find out how to adjust the BOV on my Vortech or when I'm researching the best springs to put on my car.
Next time, try to make a valid point like Toykilla did above.
I have to agree, that the other site, www.3 5 0 z - t e c h.com does offer most of these "Premier Member" benefits for free and that's great. I'm an active member of both sites.
One thing to remember, tho, is that site is still relatively small (membership and thread wise). As they get bigger, they'll have to address the same website cost concerns. Maybe they'll choose to handle it another way, but I guarantee you it won't be free... someone will have to pay for it.
mcduck... tired of people who are constantly expecting a "free lunch"... now steps down off his soapbox
Dude unless there renting the server it doesn't cos $2,500 a month. And where did you get half of 59,900? That FIFTY NINE THOUSAND not FIFTY NINE HUNDRED. 59,000 THATS THE COST OF 2 BASE MODEL 350'z PAID OFF! That's an M3 Paid in cash. I been to TONS Of sites TO4R no forum at all and you must "apply to join", CLUBSI <45K members, HONDA-TECH more like zcar.com than my350z.com, NAOSIC < 35K members, BMW FORUMS 37K members, AUDI <6500 members, EVO8 <16K membersand none have this BS Membership fee's. I understand its not mandatory, but hey if you have people that are willing to give you that money I guess more power to you. Like I said before to me its more of "WE WANT MORE MONEY" because the "BENEFITS" aren't really "BENEFITS".
For your info, I got half of $59,900 from doing basic math (which I think you understand since you generated the first $59,900 figure). If upkeep (not purchase of hardware) costs $2500 and there are 12 months in a year, annual upkeep = $30,000... approximately half of $59,900 (which you stated as 2000 1-year members x $29.95 each).
And yes, I'm sure the webmasters want more money... it takes money to keep a website with 45K+ members running. I haven't visited all the other car forums you mentioned, but I bet most of them don't have near this many members or the number of threads 350Z maintains. Also, the 350Z community appears to be growing faster. The only forum with as many members as my350z.com is ClubSI.com and they've been around a good bit longer. Is this the right way to get that money?... that's what is arguable. I stated my reason for contributing which I think is very valid... I've spent more money on stuff for my Z that I wound up never using or throwing away.
Ive been here since the start, and I always see things changing here and it keeps getting WORSE, next thing you know in about 1 year you will limit regular people post's to like 5 per month and than make PREMIUM member unlimited to get EVERYONE to pay. But again, just my thoughts it would of been different if you would of posted "CONTRIBUTE TO YOUR SITE" than to make it seem like your really getting "BENEFITS"
And, yes, I think everyone knows the site (operationally) got bad for quite a while. If you lived through that period several months ago, there is no way you can possibly think it has not improved in more recent months. At this point, I think it (operationally) is better than it has ever been. Now content-wise, I think it continues to go downhill, but that's mostly because of boneheaded posts... not that I'm making any judgments about your posts, of course!
I can go to Linkin Park and become a MEMBER for less than that amount and get FREE POSTERS, FREE CD'S, FREE SHIRTS, ETC... for $20.00 That's getting benefits but having my NAME BOLD PRINTED I think they couldn't come up with better things than that... Heck every site im registered I can change my AVATAR without paying... But whatever
How is that even a valid comparison?! I like Linkin Park... I just checked out their website. Here's what you get...- LPU 4 enhanced CD of exclusive audio tracks and videos
- New exclusive LP Underground t-shirt
- LPU Wristband, Pin, Sticker, Guitar Pick, Welcome Letter and Membership Card
- Linkin Park Photo and Annual Newsletter Poster
- Access to members-only website featuring exclusive content and LPU merchandise online
- 15% Discount on most items at LinkinParkMerch.com
- And MORE!
Great benefits, I agree! But... ummm.... that isn't exactly a web forum for discimination of knowledge about Linkin' Park. That... is... a fan club. I presume somewhere in the members section there may be a forum, but you cannot post at all unless you are a member. At least here you can post whether you become a premier member or not.
LOL! Honestly I can careless, but lets cut the bull$hit and you wouldn't be forking out THOUSAND's OF DOLLARS if you weren't going to benefit from it. You make it seem like your spending spending spending but not receiving anything from it. My point was other forums don't do this, and that's cool I know you have the bills to pay but puting out there "Member Benefits" doesn't seem like a REAL DEAL at least for the price your paying and what your getting in return. Ive seen sites with DONATIONS to keep the site running and thats cool, but "member benefits", first thing I thought was COOL! Maybe monthly giveaways, maybe even free stickers of my350z.com or etc... IM just giving you ideas, not "change avatar, BOLD your name" when you start adding stuff like that it seems you guys couldn't have thought of something better to give for "benefits" you had to just TAKE AWAY what we had before. $hit im surprised we are still allowed to use smilieys and that hasn't been taken out yet... But hey good luck with all your future endeavors.
Let's see... those who have started the Premier Membership thing have already said there would be giveaways for Premier Members... so maybe you should go back and do some reading. They have mentioned they intend to do more, but you know what? It's hard to announce what your going to do until you know how much you have in the way of resources. And since this is a completely new venture for this website, I'm sure they have no way of guessing how many Premier Members they will wind up with. I'm sure once they do, we'll see more incentives for being a Premier Member. But, as with any new thing, it must develop. Honestly, the things they "have taken away" are pretty inconsequential to the reason for having a forum... to get information. Avatar? Bold name? I give a rat's butt when I'm trying to find out how to adjust the BOV on my Vortech or when I'm researching the best springs to put on my car.
Next time, try to make a valid point like Toykilla did above.
I have to agree, that the other site, www.3 5 0 z - t e c h.com does offer most of these "Premier Member" benefits for free and that's great. I'm an active member of both sites.
One thing to remember, tho, is that site is still relatively small (membership and thread wise). As they get bigger, they'll have to address the same website cost concerns. Maybe they'll choose to handle it another way, but I guarantee you it won't be free... someone will have to pay for it.
mcduck... tired of people who are constantly expecting a "free lunch"... now steps down off his soapbox
04-15-2005, 09:24 AM
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[QUOTE=mcduck]various rants by Wicked...
First, cut the crap with caps. By what in effect is yelling at others on this forum, you lessen your points by making it seem you are more of a hothead than someone genuinely concerned about the website.
HAHA, Please don't take my points away. Your funny dude, this made my day. IM SORRY THIS BOTHERED YOU, but if you took english you will know that sentences ending with an exclamation mark("!") mean you are yelling.
For your info, I got half of $59,900 from doing basic math (which I think you understand since you generated the first $59,900 figure). If upkeep (not purchase of hardware) costs $2500 and there are 12 months in a year, annual upkeep = $30,000... approximately half of $59,900 (which you stated as 2000 1-year members x $29.95 each).
Because the "annual upkeep" isn't $30,000. Again, I highly doubt anybody with so many message forums out there are paying an "anual upkeep" of $30,000 specially when lots of forums have minimal sponsors.
And yes, I'm sure the webmasters want more money... it takes money to keep a website with 45K+ members running. I haven't visited all the other car forums you mentioned, but I bet most of them don't have near this many members or the number of threads 350Z maintains Also, the 350Z community appears to be growing faster. The only forum with as many members as my350z.com is ClubSI.com and they've been around a good bit longer. Is this the right way to get that money?... that's what is arguable. I stated my reason for contributing which I think is very valid... I've spent more money on stuff for my Z that I wound up never using or throwing away.
Uh, sorry but there are many forums that have at least DOUBLE oops I used a capslock
check out www.honda-tech.com they have almost 3 times the members that "my350z" and their website is more complete than this one.
Umm... no.... you have not been here since the start. You joined in Dec 2002 (says so under your avatar). This site was started in early 2002... so, you have been here a long time, but not since the start.
Uh, wow you seem to know ME better than I know myself. I was visiting these message forums way before I registered being here since the early start. I registered when I actually bought my Z which was in December.
And, yes, I think everyone knows the site (operationally) got bad for quite a while. If you lived through that period several months ago, there is no way you can possibly think it has not improved in more recent months. At this point, I think it (operationally) is better than it has ever been. Now content-wise, I think it continues to go downhill, but that's mostly because of boneheaded posts... not that I'm making any judgments about your posts, of course!
Actually it was more reliable before than it is right now (im sure it will be better, at least I think). Oh, im not making assuming your talking about me, I contributed to this forum hundreds of times and people can vouch for me, I have helped people out hundreds of times and vise versa. FREE the way it should be, no need to be a "bonehead" and pay for something that should be free In a community that we all can benifit from.
Holy Crap! How is that even a valid comparison?! I like Linkin Park... I just checked out their website. Here's what you get...
- LPU 4 enhanced CD of exclusive audio tracks and videos
- New exclusive LP Underground t-shirt
- LPU Wristband, Pin, Sticker, Guitar Pick, Welcome Letter and Membership Card
- Linkin Park Photo and Annual Newsletter Poster
- Access to members-only website featuring exclusive content and LPU merchandise online
- 15% Discount on most items at LinkinParkMerch.com
- And MORE!
Great benefits, I agree! But... ummm.... that isn't exactly a web forum for discimination of knowledge about Linkin' Park. That... is... a fan club. I presume somewhere in the members section there may be a forum, but you cannot post at all unless you are a member. At least here you can post whether you become a premier member or not.
Your right, its no comparison linking park actually offers "benefits". Your not getting the whole point. My whole argument is it seems like the "benefits" is more of a way to get more money out of the community. look at 350-tech, they have a "donation" and like toykilla said, they have everything and its FREE. It was more of the wording "benefits" that got me upset. If you read my post above when I clicked "premier" members I was thinking cool there might be cool benefits. And yes, their might be 1 or even 2 items that are ok, but the rest just seems to be a bunch of BS that was added to make it seem like a big list of benefits. Like I said before, im surprised we can still use smilies.
If you "honestly could care less" (as opposed to careless, which is the trait of an individual), then why do you keep ranting.
Let's see... those who have started the Premier Membership thing have already said there would be giveaways for Premier Members... so maybe you should go back and do some reading. They have mentioned they intend to do more, but you know what? It's hard to announce what your going to do until you know how much you have in the way of resources. And since this is a completely new venture for this website, I'm sure they have no way of guessing how many Premier Members they will wind up with. I'm sure once they do, we'll see more incentives for being a Premier Member. But, as with any new thing, it must develop. Honestly, the things they "have taken away" are pretty inconsequential to the reason for having a forum... to get information. Avatar? Bold name? I give a rat's butt when I'm trying to find out how to adjust the BOV on my Vortech or when I'm researching the best springs to put on my car.
You nailed it dude! That's what I am trying to say but your blinded. They took away insignificant stuff that nobody really cares about, they just did it to make the list BIG. Let me see, out of the list and im sure most will agree these are the only things that really worth it, well not for that price but are considered "benefits"
* Optional inclusion in monthly Raffles/Giveaways (Your Choice)
* Special Discounts from website Sponsors
That's pretty much it, and if that were the case they should of asked the community what they would like to see before posting a list.
Next time, try to make a valid point like Toykilla did above.
I have to agree, that the other site, www.3 5 0 z - t e c h.com does offer most of these "Premier Member" benefits for free and that's great. I'm an active member of both sites.
One thing to remember, tho, is that site is still relatively small (membership and thread wise). As they get bigger, they'll have to address the same website cost concerns. Maybe they'll choose to handle it another way, but I guarantee you it won't be free... someone will have to pay for it.
Been on message forums for not only car parts but camera forums etc.. with members larger than this site and some even without sponsors. Dont make it seem like "my350z" is the biggest site and needs thousand of thousand of dollars to maintain. yes, it cost money but many sites out there are people that are doing it to help others out. Again, i understand they need money but please put "benefits" when reality they are the ones that are benefiting from all your guys money. Anyhow im done here wasting to much time, dont even bother replying cause I wont even bother looking in here so your just wasting your time good day!
First, cut the crap with caps. By what in effect is yelling at others on this forum, you lessen your points by making it seem you are more of a hothead than someone genuinely concerned about the website.
HAHA, Please don't take my points away. Your funny dude, this made my day. IM SORRY THIS BOTHERED YOU, but if you took english you will know that sentences ending with an exclamation mark("!") mean you are yelling.
For your info, I got half of $59,900 from doing basic math (which I think you understand since you generated the first $59,900 figure). If upkeep (not purchase of hardware) costs $2500 and there are 12 months in a year, annual upkeep = $30,000... approximately half of $59,900 (which you stated as 2000 1-year members x $29.95 each).
Because the "annual upkeep" isn't $30,000. Again, I highly doubt anybody with so many message forums out there are paying an "anual upkeep" of $30,000 specially when lots of forums have minimal sponsors.
And yes, I'm sure the webmasters want more money... it takes money to keep a website with 45K+ members running. I haven't visited all the other car forums you mentioned, but I bet most of them don't have near this many members or the number of threads 350Z maintains Also, the 350Z community appears to be growing faster. The only forum with as many members as my350z.com is ClubSI.com and they've been around a good bit longer. Is this the right way to get that money?... that's what is arguable. I stated my reason for contributing which I think is very valid... I've spent more money on stuff for my Z that I wound up never using or throwing away.
Uh, sorry but there are many forums that have at least DOUBLE oops I used a capslock
check out www.honda-tech.com they have almost 3 times the members that "my350z" and their website is more complete than this one. Umm... no.... you have not been here since the start. You joined in Dec 2002 (says so under your avatar). This site was started in early 2002... so, you have been here a long time, but not since the start.
Uh, wow you seem to know ME better than I know myself. I was visiting these message forums way before I registered being here since the early start. I registered when I actually bought my Z which was in December.
And, yes, I think everyone knows the site (operationally) got bad for quite a while. If you lived through that period several months ago, there is no way you can possibly think it has not improved in more recent months. At this point, I think it (operationally) is better than it has ever been. Now content-wise, I think it continues to go downhill, but that's mostly because of boneheaded posts... not that I'm making any judgments about your posts, of course!
Actually it was more reliable before than it is right now (im sure it will be better, at least I think). Oh, im not making assuming your talking about me, I contributed to this forum hundreds of times and people can vouch for me, I have helped people out hundreds of times and vise versa. FREE the way it should be, no need to be a "bonehead" and pay for something that should be free In a community that we all can benifit from.
Holy Crap!
How is that even a valid comparison?! I like Linkin Park... I just checked out their website. Here's what you get...- LPU 4 enhanced CD of exclusive audio tracks and videos
- New exclusive LP Underground t-shirt
- LPU Wristband, Pin, Sticker, Guitar Pick, Welcome Letter and Membership Card
- Linkin Park Photo and Annual Newsletter Poster
- Access to members-only website featuring exclusive content and LPU merchandise online
- 15% Discount on most items at LinkinParkMerch.com
- And MORE!
Great benefits, I agree! But... ummm.... that isn't exactly a web forum for discimination of knowledge about Linkin' Park. That... is... a fan club. I presume somewhere in the members section there may be a forum, but you cannot post at all unless you are a member. At least here you can post whether you become a premier member or not.
Your right, its no comparison linking park actually offers "benefits". Your not getting the whole point. My whole argument is it seems like the "benefits" is more of a way to get more money out of the community. look at 350-tech, they have a "donation" and like toykilla said, they have everything and its FREE. It was more of the wording "benefits" that got me upset. If you read my post above when I clicked "premier" members I was thinking cool there might be cool benefits. And yes, their might be 1 or even 2 items that are ok, but the rest just seems to be a bunch of BS that was added to make it seem like a big list of benefits. Like I said before, im surprised we can still use smilies.
If you "honestly could care less" (as opposed to careless, which is the trait of an individual), then why do you keep ranting.
Let's see... those who have started the Premier Membership thing have already said there would be giveaways for Premier Members... so maybe you should go back and do some reading. They have mentioned they intend to do more, but you know what? It's hard to announce what your going to do until you know how much you have in the way of resources. And since this is a completely new venture for this website, I'm sure they have no way of guessing how many Premier Members they will wind up with. I'm sure once they do, we'll see more incentives for being a Premier Member. But, as with any new thing, it must develop. Honestly, the things they "have taken away" are pretty inconsequential to the reason for having a forum... to get information. Avatar? Bold name? I give a rat's butt when I'm trying to find out how to adjust the BOV on my Vortech or when I'm researching the best springs to put on my car.
You nailed it dude! That's what I am trying to say but your blinded. They took away insignificant stuff that nobody really cares about, they just did it to make the list BIG. Let me see, out of the list and im sure most will agree these are the only things that really worth it, well not for that price but are considered "benefits"
* Optional inclusion in monthly Raffles/Giveaways (Your Choice)
* Special Discounts from website Sponsors
That's pretty much it, and if that were the case they should of asked the community what they would like to see before posting a list.
Next time, try to make a valid point like Toykilla did above.
I have to agree, that the other site, www.3 5 0 z - t e c h.com does offer most of these "Premier Member" benefits for free and that's great. I'm an active member of both sites.
One thing to remember, tho, is that site is still relatively small (membership and thread wise). As they get bigger, they'll have to address the same website cost concerns. Maybe they'll choose to handle it another way, but I guarantee you it won't be free... someone will have to pay for it.
Been on message forums for not only car parts but camera forums etc.. with members larger than this site and some even without sponsors. Dont make it seem like "my350z" is the biggest site and needs thousand of thousand of dollars to maintain. yes, it cost money but many sites out there are people that are doing it to help others out. Again, i understand they need money but please put "benefits" when reality they are the ones that are benefiting from all your guys money. Anyhow im done here wasting to much time, dont even bother replying cause I wont even bother looking in here so your just wasting your time good day!
04-15-2005, 09:45 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Wicked4u2c
Anyhow im done here wasting to much time, dont even bother replying cause I wont even bother looking in here so your just wasting your time good day!
Bottom line to all of this: Upon inception there was no way to accurately perdict the growth of this site. All you have to go on in a venture of this type is historical data from other car forums. This site is way above average with it's member count (Premier or not
). The site grew at such a rapid pace that it quickly out grew it's existing infrastructure and yes, began to experience major performance and reliability issues.The fact that a business decision was made, whether you agree with it or not was just that. This is a business. They are not forcing anyone to give them money, they are just trying to keep the site going and make a little money too. Free enterprise, what a great concept!
Anyway, I know I gain more from this site then I contribute. I love the ideas that people have & I've never wanted to mod a car more than I want to this one. Should you choose to become a Premier member then that's great.
If you choose to take from this site what ever you can and not give anything in return then thats okay too. Just don't complain about a change that really has very minimal impact on you as a "FREE" user.
Last edited by bixby; 04-15-2005 at 09:49 AM.
04-15-2005, 09:46 AM
#34
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Kyle, why did you tell me over AIM that g35driver and my350z were not going to be related in any way? I believe i asked you why you changed the look of g35driver to match my350z.. and your response was "No, i just like the colors" The next week it was announced that g35driver and my350z were now sister sites..
I dont understand why you would feel the need to lie to me? Maybe because i was telling you alot of ideas i had for my website?
I dont understand why you would feel the need to lie to me? Maybe because i was telling you alot of ideas i had for my website?
04-15-2005, 10:36 AM
#35
Uh, sorry but there are many forums that have at least DOUBLE oops I used a capslock check out www.honda-tech.com they have almost 3 times the members that "my350z" and their website is more complete than this one.
No offense but you should be able to see why it has all the bells and whistles.. They use it to market their forum software.
http://www.rely.net/
Originally Posted by toyokilla
This is very sad. I find it extremely sick that this site has such little respect for others in the z community. Every idea that we have come up with for our site, has now been taken and used on this site to make money.. In fact some of the better ideas are now being charged a "premium". We offer this stuff as a free service to our members, and the people here want to make a quick buck from others hard work..
And do not try to deny stealing our ideas, I have seen you poking around our site, asking questions in the chatroom.. and even a few of the people running this place i have spoken with over aim.
I do not doubt this post will be deleted.. or even responded to. This is typical of this site..
It is really sad, because i was once a "premier" member here. And i guess my contributions help make this site what it is today.. I still get emails and PMs from people on this site with technical related questions regarding posts i have made in the past.
The idea that most people are good, is pretty much an idea that no longer stands with me. I guess it applies here as well.
And do not try to deny stealing our ideas, I have seen you poking around our site, asking questions in the chatroom.. and even a few of the people running this place i have spoken with over aim.
I do not doubt this post will be deleted.. or even responded to. This is typical of this site..
It is really sad, because i was once a "premier" member here. And i guess my contributions help make this site what it is today.. I still get emails and PMs from people on this site with technical related questions regarding posts i have made in the past.
The idea that most people are good, is pretty much an idea that no longer stands with me. I guess it applies here as well.
Although I do respect you for running your own Z board I think your such an idiot.
Explain to me how we are stealing any of your idea's.
Yes I've been to your site, yes I have been to your chatroom and yes I have spoken to you via aim.
If anything I've suggested on how you could improve your site.
Most of the things I've done here I have done several years ago on my own personal Z Site ZDriver a few years ago.
Lets shed some more light
You have 91,430 posts on your site there are 1,234,538 posts on this one.
You have 5,313 registered members here there are 45,087
Just by looking at that data alone it shows you do not get a huge amount of traffic and I'm sure it costs you little if nothing to maintain other than your time hell I have almost as much traffic as you on ZDriver and I dont even have banners or ask for sponsors there.
Have you ever talked to other z website owners/admin and offered to help them out or do you just try to put them down to gain reason for others to come to your site?
I have helped out many other Z Sites offering my help, suggestions and even promoting them. No Offense but all I've ever seen you do is bash this one.
Lastly, when were you ever a premier member here? Because premier membership only started here a few days ago.
If your talking about Charter Membership that something totaly different and was all Jay(previous owner) 3 years ago..
04-15-2005, 10:38 AM
#36
I suppose I'll offer my two cents. First off, I see nothing wrong with the concept of Premier membership as it's optional. However, I would have problems if some of the benefits that should otherwise be provided to all members is excluded.
For example, group buys should be available to all members. A nominal fee for normal members that want to start a group buy shouldn't be a problem. Premier members should have that fee waived. But, in any case, all group buys should be accessable to all members and, the forum should be moved from the Premier only access forums as soon as possible.
I view Premier membership much like McDuck. I think the fee is okay as a thank you for past service and is reasonable as long as the site continues to offer good information. I also think that the membership should offer "bonus" forums, material or content but should not detract from the normal forum in anyway. Jeff's concern about deleted posts in order to make the material "Premier" in nature was a good point. I understand there wont be deletions but keep in mind that care must be taken to offer supplemental material while not detracting from the original forum. I think you might find yourselves running into problems here.
And, this was a good point from McDuck/Toykilla:
Guys, I think you need to get the sigs working for vendors/inventors etc. and that you need to resolve the group buy policies as soon as possilbe. And, Tony (wicked4u2c) is making a reasonable point that there are bigger sites out there that are managing to do well enough on just sponsorship. Members will not like the idea of Premier membership as a money making opportunity instead of a way to say thank you or as a supplement to the normal forum. Tony's obvious passion about the subject will be shared by others on the forum so bear that in mind in figuring out just how Premier membership is supposed to work.
For example, group buys should be available to all members. A nominal fee for normal members that want to start a group buy shouldn't be a problem. Premier members should have that fee waived. But, in any case, all group buys should be accessable to all members and, the forum should be moved from the Premier only access forums as soon as possible.
I view Premier membership much like McDuck. I think the fee is okay as a thank you for past service and is reasonable as long as the site continues to offer good information. I also think that the membership should offer "bonus" forums, material or content but should not detract from the normal forum in anyway. Jeff's concern about deleted posts in order to make the material "Premier" in nature was a good point. I understand there wont be deletions but keep in mind that care must be taken to offer supplemental material while not detracting from the original forum. I think you might find yourselves running into problems here.
And, this was a good point from McDuck/Toykilla:
I have to agree, that the other site, www.3 5 0 z - t e c h.com does offer most of these "Premier Member" benefits for free and that's great. I'm an active member of both sites.
04-15-2005, 10:45 AM
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My site was started over 2 years after this one.. of course it will be smaller. it is curious that every feature we implemented into ztech is now a feature here, and until i started my site this place never added any features whatsoever..
i really dont want to go down this road.. ive been down it before with victor and it is a waste of everyones efforts..
I just want you to know that i am aware of what you have done and have lost respect for you.
i really dont want to go down this road.. ive been down it before with victor and it is a waste of everyones efforts..
I just want you to know that i am aware of what you have done and have lost respect for you.
04-15-2005, 11:02 AM
#38
Registered User
According to his post, Wicked is no longer "listening", but I'm having a slow work day and enjoy a good debate so I'll reply for the benefit of others... 
It didn't bother me... it just makes your posts seem more of a joke than a voice of concern. First, it is a well known convention that all caps on forums or emails is equivalent to yelling. If you haven't learned this in the 2+ years you have been on this forum (and maybe longer on others) perhaps you shouldn't post until you learn proper web etiquette. Second, you definitely need the English lesson more than I. An exclamation point ("!") implies excitement, not YELLING. 
It is very possible and often more acceptable to be excited without yelling... for example, one could say "oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!" in anticipation (a form of excitement) of a pending event, but not have to yell "OH BOY, OH BOY, OH BOY!" at the top of their lungs to make their point.
A - that was not the point to which I was responding. You misread the statement concerning upkeep expenses I had made, so I clarified it for you. B - I'm 100% sure you have no idea what the expenses of this site are. Neither do I, but at least mine is an educated guess as I perform network analysis for my employer and am very familiar with server costs, server maintenance contract costs, bandwidth costs, etc, etc. And for the record, I was considering actual hardware depreciation as part of my estimate. As was mentioned before, how they utilize any remaining funds after site costs will be a factor in how many people continue to pay an annual Premier Member fee.
Again, an invalid comparison... as I pointed out by in my prior message. If you looked where I quoted you, I made comments about each forum you listed. Yes, honda-tech.com has more members, but it is not comparable to my350z.com. It's more like zcar.com. Let me try another approach to make this easier for you to understand... If you had a particularly technical question about a Civic SI, which would you visit first... honda-tech.com or ClubSI.com? Likely it would be ClubSI.com because it is more likely that specialized level of knowledge would be located there not on a generic Honda forum.
So for many months you contributed nothing to this site. I know it's just my opinion, but that just makes you a leecher, not a member. Technically, you also were not a member since being a member means registering. Whether or not you were actually here those months becomes irrelevant since you contributed nothing and you cannot prove you actually were even here "viewing". It's kind of like me saying I was at the NCAA Championship game to watch Carolina beat Illinois. I can say it all day long, but unless I have a means to prove it to you who knows if it is true... and ultimately, who cares if my presence didn't have an impact on the game.
And the addition of Premier Members changes the ability of you to help others or vice versa how? 
This may be the first thing you have said that makes sense. Going back to my prior post, I think time will tell if you will see the "cool benefits" you expect. Again, it's hard to plan until you see what you have to plan with. Wouldn't a Videos section be great! (note that wasn't a question... it was an enthusiastic statement... no yelling required so I simply used an exclamation point) Unfortunately, videos are large... they require lots of storage space and lots of bandwidth. If I don't know how much money I will have to purchase storage and bandwidth, it's hard for me to announce a new Videos section for the Premier Members area... what if we don't get enough Premier Members to pay for it? What if the money is needed for a contingency server first? I understand where you're coming from with this point, but I think its one of those things you have take on faith will be followed through on... there will be cool Premier Member benefits added. Oh... and Linkin Park site is still not the same no matter how many times you bring it up... a fan website is not the same as a public web forum.
O lordy... thank you sooooo much for opening my eyes!!! 
Again, you are making assumptions... you really don't know why they pulled that stuff. I'm sure more went into it than..."Ooo... we need a long list of benefits to sell Premier Memberships." Regardless, that is their decision to make... if you don't like what you are able to do still... completely for free, I might add... I'm sure you can go post elsewhere. That's the beauty of a democracy and capitalism.
They have asked in the past what folks would like to see. In fact, one of the problems for a long time was that these questions were asked and the power that be appeared to do nothing with that feedback. Now they are trying to do something with it (somewhat late, but they are) and they still get cut down. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, I guess.
And I'm happy there are so many wealthy philanthropists in the world, but the bottom line is, if you do not have some sort of backdoor hookup on building a website, this stuff costs money. Those sites that are free are not free... someone is paying for them. In those cases, the site owners are absorbing the cost. Maybe they are very enthusiastic about the topic and can afford to pay for the site... maybe the site is tax write off for them... here, the my350z.com people have chosen a solution to try. Is it the best... probably not, but at least they are doing something to try to make it better.
Again, I'm in for 1 year because I've reaped the free benefits for over 2 1/2 years already. I view it more as $1 a month payment on what has already occurred rather than what is to come. I'm sure in 30 months I've gotten waaaaay more than $1/month value in technical knowledge, advise, new friendships, and laughs. I'm willing to take a chance and see if it can become even better. If not, then I'll go back to being a regular member in 12 months.
IM SORRY THIS BOTHERED YOU, but if you took english you will know that sentences ending with an exclamation mark("!") mean you are yelling.
It is very possible and often more acceptable to be excited without yelling... for example, one could say "oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!" in anticipation (a form of excitement) of a pending event, but not have to yell "OH BOY, OH BOY, OH BOY!" at the top of their lungs to make their point.
Because the "annual upkeep" isn't $30,000.
Uh, sorry but there are many forums that have at least DOUBLE oops I used a capslock check out www.honda-tech.com they have almost 3 times the members that "my350z" and their website is more complete than this one.
Uh, wow you seem to know ME better than I know myself. I was visiting these message forums way before I registered being here since the early start. I registered when I actually bought my Z which was in December.
Actually it was more reliable before than it is right now (im sure it will be better, at least I think). Oh, im not making assuming your talking about me, I contributed to this forum hundreds of times and people can vouch for me, I have helped people out hundreds of times and vise versa. FREE the way it should be, no need to be a "bonehead" and pay for something that should be free In a community that we all can benifit from.
It was more of the wording "benefits" that got me upset. If you read my post above when I clicked "premier" members I was thinking cool there might be cool benefits.
You nailed it dude! That's what I am trying to say but your blinded. They took away insignificant stuff that nobody really cares about, they just did it to make the list BIG. Let me see, out of the list and im sure most will agree these are the only things that really worth it, well not for that price but are considered "benefits"
Again, you are making assumptions... you really don't know why they pulled that stuff. I'm sure more went into it than..."Ooo... we need a long list of benefits to sell Premier Memberships." Regardless, that is their decision to make... if you don't like what you are able to do still... completely for free, I might add... I'm sure you can go post elsewhere. That's the beauty of a democracy and capitalism.
That's pretty much it, and if that were the case they should of asked the community what they would like to see before posting a list.
yes, it cost money but many sites out there are people that are doing it to help others out.
Again, I'm in for 1 year because I've reaped the free benefits for over 2 1/2 years already. I view it more as $1 a month payment on what has already occurred rather than what is to come. I'm sure in 30 months I've gotten waaaaay more than $1/month value in technical knowledge, advise, new friendships, and laughs. I'm willing to take a chance and see if it can become even better. If not, then I'll go back to being a regular member in 12 months.
Last edited by mcduck; 04-15-2005 at 11:07 AM.
04-15-2005, 11:04 AM
#39
Originally Posted by toykilla
Kyle, why did you tell me over AIM that g35driver and my350z were not going to be related in any way? I believe i asked you why you changed the look of g35driver to match my350z.. and your response was "No, i just like the colors" The next week it was announced that g35driver and my350z were now sister sites..
I dont understand why you would feel the need to lie to me? Maybe because i was telling you alot of ideas i had for my website?
I dont understand why you would feel the need to lie to me? Maybe because i was telling you alot of ideas i had for my website?
My site was started over 2 years after this one.. of course it will be smaller. it is curious that every feature we implemented into ztech is now a feature here, and until i started my site this place never added any features whatsoever..
Toyo if you want to talk more about this I'm fine with that but lets do it in private we dont need the drama here.
Last edited by GodZilla; 04-15-2005 at 11:17 AM.
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