S/C vs ST take# 1,000,001
Oleg, i am kind of in the same boat as you. But it seems like your thinking the Single Turbo puts outs way to much power for the street. Both kits only put out around 30-60 for ft/lbs torque. Thats not too much, I would think that would kind of aid in driveability. You wouldn't have to be in such a low gear to have access to torque. I have yet to ride in a ST or SC'd car, I have been passenger in a PE TT 350Z w/468WHP and 492/TQ and, yes, to me, thats a little much. One thing I am taking into consideration is what, over time, is that supercharger going to do to a crank and its surrounding parts, its adding more parasitic drag to the equation, I thought that was something that was to be avoided if possible. I'm not looking for a dyno queen, or a track car either. What I'm looking for is extra power and torque, that doesn't need a two gear down shift to quickly pass someone on the highway, and is as close to inaudible at idle.
just a reminder for anyone who doesn't yet have an aftermarket flywheel, if you have one, you always will drive at 2000 rpms or higher so you'll always be in a low gear right there in the torque
as far as the added stress to the crank, you gotta choose your poison. Do you want to wear out the rods more with a turbo, or wear out the pullies more with a SC?
It isn't so much about the peak torque, it's about how it's curved and what rpm it peaks at
SilverJDMCoupe, sounds like a turbo suits your needs - even, dare I say it, possibly NA?
I can argue for one setup or another. It's all about pros and cons
as far as the added stress to the crank, you gotta choose your poison. Do you want to wear out the rods more with a turbo, or wear out the pullies more with a SC?
It isn't so much about the peak torque, it's about how it's curved and what rpm it peaks at
SilverJDMCoupe, sounds like a turbo suits your needs - even, dare I say it, possibly NA?
I can argue for one setup or another. It's all about pros and cons
Last edited by sentry65; Dec 20, 2005 at 02:51 PM.
Originally Posted by sentry65
just a reminder for anyone who doesn't yet have an aftermarket flywheel, if you have one, you always will drive at 2000 rpms or higher so you'll always be in a low gear right there in the torque
as far as the added stress to the crank, you gotta choose your poison. Do you want to wear out the rods more with a turbo, or wear out the pullies more with a SC?
It isn't so much about the peak torque, it's about how it's curved and what rpm it peaks at
SilverJDMCoupe, sounds like a turbo suits your needs - even, dare I say it, possibly NA?I can argue for one setup or another. It's all about pros and cons
as far as the added stress to the crank, you gotta choose your poison. Do you want to wear out the rods more with a turbo, or wear out the pullies more with a SC?
It isn't so much about the peak torque, it's about how it's curved and what rpm it peaks at
SilverJDMCoupe, sounds like a turbo suits your needs - even, dare I say it, possibly NA?I can argue for one setup or another. It's all about pros and cons
Why would you have to drive at 2000 RPMs with a lighter flywheel?
How do you wear out the rods with a turbo?How do you wear out crank pulleys with a supercharger?
No matter which set up you choose, the VQ motor will produce peak TQ around 4800 Rpms then fall off , its just a matter of how much peak TQ you make.A SC produces peak PSI at redline where as a turbo makes peak psi as soon as it spools up.This is why you see much higher TQ numbers out of a turbo than a SC. Generally the 400+ whp SC's you see will produce around 360-380tq where as the 400+ whp turbo setups generally produce over 400TQ...Both means of FI produce extra strain on the motor and will wear parts just the same, however there are some that will argue that the parasitic loss of a SC as well as requiring the motor to drive another accessory pulley will wear the main bearings faster..It is a theory that has never been proven to the best of my knowledge.However Keep in mind to make 400whp out of a SC you need to be making about 20-27%more
crank HP than that, to offset the parasitic loss of hp from spinning the blower itself. On a turbo Setup to achieve 400whp your looking at about a 15-17% increase at the crank due to normal drive train loss..So when all is factored in to make the same Wheel HP, the SC and turbo put equal strain on the motor and the internals..
light clutches make a shuttering noise if you're in too low of a gear and give it much of any throttle around 2000-2500 rpms. So to avoid the sound, you drive at a lower gear.
I'm going off of more engines have been lost at low boost with turbo kits than SC kits. Yeah I know there's more turbo kits and more people go turbo. It could be argued, but not proven yet, that the drastic change in torque is harder on the engine than the gradual increase.
The vortech/ATI kits make peak torque around 5200 rpms and then hold it there until about 6k where it starts to drop.
Usually turbos reach max boost at 4k or less. I think someone even said the TN reaches full boost at 3500 rpms. Then it'll hang out there until about 4500, then really start dropping after that to redline. Driving around day by day or even just cruising on the highway at practically full boost can't be great for the engine. But yeah everything wears out the engine. I was just thinking the rods aren't as likely to hold very long going from 0psi to 8psi in the course of 1000 rpms as they would with a SC since it's usually the torque that breaks stuff
I'm going off of more engines have been lost at low boost with turbo kits than SC kits. Yeah I know there's more turbo kits and more people go turbo. It could be argued, but not proven yet, that the drastic change in torque is harder on the engine than the gradual increase.
The vortech/ATI kits make peak torque around 5200 rpms and then hold it there until about 6k where it starts to drop.
Usually turbos reach max boost at 4k or less. I think someone even said the TN reaches full boost at 3500 rpms. Then it'll hang out there until about 4500, then really start dropping after that to redline. Driving around day by day or even just cruising on the highway at practically full boost can't be great for the engine. But yeah everything wears out the engine. I was just thinking the rods aren't as likely to hold very long going from 0psi to 8psi in the course of 1000 rpms as they would with a SC since it's usually the torque that breaks stuff
Here is an old dyno of my ATI Supercharger then my TT kit overlayed.As you can see the VQ makes peak TQ at 4800 rpms, like I said, in both applications then falls off. Boost is boost...The TT kit just makes alot more HP and TQ than the SC set up but the power band will linear and similar. And just to clarify, either set up will produce ZERO boost unless under load, otherwise the boost pressure is diverted when under part throttle condition such as cruising on the highway..So you will not be making 9psi of boost at 1000 rpms on the highway as you said. 
hehe yeah there's no boost if you're not pushing the pedal hard
aside from the turbo car making more power there, if you boosted the SC to the point where it made the same peak whp, really yeah the curves aren't THAT dramatically different, but the torque is for sure more concentrated on the turbo cars. Really seems to dip down below 3k
aside from the turbo car making more power there, if you boosted the SC to the point where it made the same peak whp, really yeah the curves aren't THAT dramatically different, but the torque is for sure more concentrated on the turbo cars. Really seems to dip down below 3k
Originally Posted by sentry65
hehe yeah there's no boost if you're not pushing the pedal hard
aside from the turbo car making more power there, if you boosted the SC to the point where it made the same peak whp, really yeah the curves aren't THAT dramatically different, but the torque is for sure more concentrated on the turbo cars. Really seems to dip down below 3k
aside from the turbo car making more power there, if you boosted the SC to the point where it made the same peak whp, really yeah the curves aren't THAT dramatically different, but the torque is for sure more concentrated on the turbo cars. Really seems to dip down below 3k
Sounded like a spaceship flying by..Would get on my nerves from time to time.
Originally Posted by Oleg
MRC, are the TT and SC running equal boosts on the dyno charts?
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How different is procharger from vortech (both tuner kits, the fuel systems and electronics that come with full kits both suck in my opinion) in terms of power-to-PSI, noise, need to relocate parts/impact sensors, etc? Does the Procharger let you keep the bumper support?
Originally Posted by Oleg
How different is procharger from vortech (both tuner kits, the fuel systems and electronics that come with full kits both suck in my opinion) in terms of power-to-PSI, noise, need to relocate parts/impact sensors, etc? Does the Procharger let you keep the bumper support?
Originally Posted by Oleg
How different is procharger from vortech (both tuner kits, the fuel systems and electronics that come with full kits both suck in my opinion) in terms of power-to-PSI, noise, need to relocate parts/impact sensors, etc? Does the Procharger let you keep the bumper support?
this is going to take too long to explain it all. They're very similar overall.
The Procharger tuner kit is a rip off though compared to the vortech tuner kit. There's some definite differences and you'll just have to search on it. The procharger is louder. More people are using the vortech kit. The procharger has it's own seperate oil supply, the vortech taps into the engine oil - there's pros and cons with that in itself. The vortech kit has a lot of potential to upgrade blowers. The procharger kit stock has more potential than the vortech, but I'm not sure if you can upgrade the actual blower.
Originally Posted by chuquison
umm one confused guy anyone in sandiego with any F/I z or g pm me plz
It is like an addiction of sorts and once you do it you will always be questing for more and more power.Its like a drug man 
It all stars out with wanting a mid 13 second car, then it goes to a low 13 second car, then a 12 second car...Thats not enough then you want low 12's, then high 11's....And you say thats fast enough,but nooooo..Then you got a low 11 second car and need to break into the 10's...Then once you go 10's you want low 10's...Ect..ect...ect....You see my point..LOL
