Did the single turbo kits like TN or APS render kits like Vortech obsolete? Or are there still scenarios under which SC can have advantages.
The reason why I am asking is that I finally got a hold of the old Speed magazine (Vortech SC vs. Stillen SC vs. Greddy TT vs. JWT TT). All cars were running stock motors. Vortech was the one to run the quickest 1/4 mile. In the commentaries they said something about the fact that lower low end torque was a contributing factor to keeping traction while launching on street tires.
So I went and did some research on Vortechs. The basic trim has enough airflow for 650hp. The T trip is a 800 hp blower (spoke to their techs). Both can make power at 20 psi and beyond on built motors. And a tuner kit for a basic Vortech can be bought for less the $3800. The install is less then an ST by at least 700-800 (but I think that with headers this difference would vanish). Also, please correct me if I am wrong, b/c there is no exhaust gasses involved the SC's make less heat (but more noise).
I don't think that anyone in the forums had to go through more pain that I am now while deciding on which way to go (without having to by a Z for every FI kit out there)

P.S. Doesn't seem like there is no torque. LouZer and booger are making some good torque # on theirs (why do the s/c people have the weirdest names).

 

Ask booger about how much the included Vortech blower pushes...I think you'll find that it doesnt really support 600. Traction on a ST can be remedied by using an EU and two step or a boost controller with gear based boost control.

 

Could you ellaborate?

 

The two step function allows you to engage the throttle at 100% but sets your revlimiter to a user defined point so you can launch theortically without ever lifting your foot or feathering the throttle. More info here: https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/159233-emanage-ultimate-2-step-video-finally.html

Boost controller with gear based boost controll essentially limit the based depending on what gear you are in. So lets say in first you want 3-4 psi of boost. You stage activate the boost controller gear based portion and nail it out of the hole, the most you will get is 3-4 psi, next in 2nd you want 5-6 dial in 5-6 in the settings and next launch you get 3-4 in first and 5-6 in 2nd. So on and so forth. Each controller handles activation and gear sensing differently.

 

not to steal the thread but mia when does the spec II kit come out with the T66 or equiv... thatd be interesting to see i doubt id ever go that far cause i do not want to build the motor... still love to have a huge turbo!!!

Also to try to help out check out the Apexi AVCR with its gear based boost control and hot switch for higher boost setting...

 

R&D begins Feburary.

 

Oh, how did I miss that one?
But does the gear based boost controller work on a 5AT?

 

It works on any car with gears yeah The boost controller basically knows when you are stopped and activate it you are at 1. Then depending on the sensor it either detects a quick drop in revs to know you shifted, a g sensor, like i said they vary by make.

 

i edited my other post but scroll up to see and check out the apexi AVCR and Does the utec have 2 step....

 

So there is no advantage whatsoever in going with a centrifugal blower over a single turbo?

 

not really tht i can think of besides price but in the end theyll equal about the same..

 

SC has more moving parts and theoretically more likely chance of someting to go wrong... also they are parasitic to the engine... ie takes power to make power and your net power is what you end up with...

 

All though I have no plans what so ever of changing my set up . The Single turbo more than likely would be cheaper in the long run to upgrade and get the most hp out of a cheaper kit . The Vortech kit is good to around 350 to 420whp depending on your Dyno type , with a pulley upgrade . After that you'll need to upgrade the blower and the intercooler

 

How do you upgrade the I/C on the Vortech kit? Can you buy the upgraded I/C from the start?

 

i sure theres a kit...

 

The advantage is the ST will have lag , and blower will not . IMO, in this case, advantage super charger.

 

the debate continues...

I'm going with the vortech because it suits my needs more than the TT or ST kits


my car with my NA mods IMO has plenty of punch in the low and mid range area. The area I want more power and torque in is around 4500 and higher because that's the area you're in when you're flooring the car hard. The vortech and ATI kits do exactly that. With a light clutch it takes no time to get to 4k, but almost seems to lose some of that brutal speed above that - probably cause the torque is dropping off.

I know I can get a ST or TT kit and detune the midrange to be lower, but I'm just not going to mess with attempting that. The vortech doesn't have a mountain of torque and ultimately will lose to a properly setup TT or ST setup (meaning they have traction) in a straight line but that's been my observations on my car and the vortech suits my needs and isn't a ton of money.

The ST and TT will for sure feel the most fun for stoplight racing and highway fun compared to SC's

Also if I were to blow my engine, there's no risk of metal shards blowing into the turbos and ruining them as well as the engine being shot. With a SC, the metal shards just shoot out the exhaust

It's also my belief that the centrifical SC's are easier on the engine. The huge torque of turbos seems to be what weakens rods since many people have blown up engines just cruising at around 4k rpms (where peak tq is on ST and TT's) I actually want more torque up in higher rpm's than at mid rpm's. It seems like it would be so much more predictable to control. SC's don't get boost spikes much compared to ST and TT's which are bad news.


the SC kits don't have as much peak tq and it builds at higher rpm's, but that really helps out with traction and control. It's kinda annoying I'd think to be trying to negotiate a corner where the slightest movement of the gas pedal will activate an instant mountain of torque, sending you on your way to fishtailing and spinning out. People with ST and TT kits are now starting to drive around on drag radials all the time because that's the only type of street tire that really seems to handle the sudden rush in torque. Some people say drag radials handle damn near as well as normal street tires for handling and wet traction. Others say they're flat out dangerous in the wet and are really spongy and vague with their handling so who knows


the ST and TT kits are a little more expensive to buy and the labor is higher to install. IMO they have a higher risk of blowing the engine because they ARE producing more power and power that comes on HARDER. Buying boost traction control units or getting the turbo tuned to lower midrange torque is just more money to spend. The Z's gears are so short that traction is a big big issue with big power. Having all the ST and TT torque is harder on other parts like axels and the transmission than a SC will be - because the SC is producing generally less power and way less torque. So SC's to me seem like less of a money pit IMO though there's no doubt, if you have 2-3x the money to spend in the long run and think it's worth it, a ST or TT will net you more dyno power


In that SPEED article, maybe some people noticed that the vortech car - that compared to the AXIS car had way worse tires and smaller sizes, less downforce (body kit stuff), lack of good LSD, didn't have the 350EVO A-arms and a crew that aligned the camber for each test, etc etc and in the road course it STILL was just a sliver - like .07 sec away from the AXIS car. That impressed me. I'd like to know how the vortech kit car would do if it had the AXIS suspension, tire, and aero setup. Yeah it can be argued that the driver (who's a pro) maybe could have pushed the AXIS car harder if he had gotten used to the car more etc, but mmm I dunno, the AXIS's handling numbers were just so much better than the vortech car.

I think the 1/4 mile times for the turbo cars were so horrible because the track was just a runway, not a prepped track - so traction would be an issue. Also the greddy car was a total and complete joke. Total ricer/show car

 

Lag? To me not building full boost until redline is lag. ST anyday. This is the main reason why I tore my Vortech out of my car.

 

Edit that and all the fuggin noise the Vortech makes.

 

that is the only reason i didnt get the vortech kit is because a buddy of mine got it and it sounds like **** "to me" others may like it but i just cant stand that noise rattle i wonder if the ati sounds like that? I will go with the aps or T-netics.