Zivman

iTrader: (19)

I was just making a suggestion. I knew you wouldn't send out a kit <-note I said wouldn't and not couldn't

This is exactly my point. Come out and hype this kit that is a prototype, manipulate the consumers to bring there cars to you with what I believe are half truths and then take their money.

Get this great JWT kit in the hands of another 3rd party shop and lets get their thoughts. I am POSITIVE there are MORE capable shops than yours out there to install the kit and for you to say that "We have to install and tune and check everything and go over it thoroughly before sending the car out." like your shop is something special is a bunch of BS. Heck, I have done more complicated installs myself than the JWT kit and I have access to a mustang dyno and the R4 software needed to tune a split second box, so don't act like your shop is doing anything special.


Like I stated before on this forum and others. the JWT kit isn't really offering anything special in terms of your "no lag" hype.

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

I think we have already established holes in your article. The fact that you openly admit that an exhaust does not change the character of each kit just makes me laugh. exhaut can absolutely change the character of a kit. Important things like how fast the turbos spool, boost pressure, EGTs, etc are all affected by exhaust on a turbo setup. A proper exhaust and tune are the two critical parts to a FI setup.

ActionJackson

iTrader: (1)

I like how you dodged VRTs personal invitation to basically get you & your car over here to track both cars and do a comparison, and then turned it around on them that they couldn't release the kit and its their fault. Their shop & Performance Motorsports on the east coast are the only ones authorized by JWT to install the prototype kit right now, you knew this already, so saying what you just said knowing that just makes you look dumb. Not to mention your obviously lame attempt to dodge the invitation blaming 91 octane & carb as your reasons not to come over. Those things don't matter here with out of state plates

You wanted proof of the lag difference then go drive it yourself. You say you want to sing the praises of the JWT kit yet you make no effort to do so, nor do you take advantage of a company's personal invitation to do so.

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

I won't be going to Cali for many reasons. Self employed and don't have the time to be away from home along with a few other personal reasons. The 91 oct and Carb things were reasons why I personally don't like to go to cali.

I made the suggestion I could get a away for a day and a half to IL and meet up with a shop/owner there with a JWT setup. This is an effort on my part, sorry you don't see it as such.

zman1910

iTrader: (3)

Your an idiot if your willing to travel great distances just to try out a kit and sing praises about it. The problem is they are talking it up as if its the best thing in the world but then refused to give any other info on it. Not just that but it is only available to two other shops.

I don't know anyone that has the time to just leave everything in order to put 2 cars on a track together. All it takes is a couple of dyno sheets to prove any differences...

The truth about the lag difference will come out when the kit is released to everyone else. Everything is simply speculation at this point and why should Zivman be the one to make the effort.....he's not selling the product..JWT and VRT are....so they should make the extra effort to convince him instead of just talking the kit up all the time...

Like I said before I am waiting patiently for the kit to be released to my trusted shops. Then I will make my decision. I refuse to make a decision based off of shops that JW has chosen pesonally. One cannot come to an honest conclusion like that...

zland

Regarding the article, we did openly state the mods thus for people like yourself that are knowledgeable, you can determine yourself what the data means. If you think an exhaust changes the total character of a kit, then that is your opinion.

I am all for discussing information however I feel your "know it all" personality is a bit insulting & argumentative. Do you intend to try to insult people or is it just something that comes out without trying? I prefer not to spend time trading insults with you sir. To me, the purpose of this forum is to share opinions and information without being negative. We can disagree and not be insulting.

If you know as much as you think you do, why do you need any information at all? It is easy to bash everyone and this is one reason why many people within the industry do not go online. They prefer not to get an argument with someone on the end of a keyboard.

I would love for you to present data to all of us on kits that you feel is accurate/worthy. Good luck on finding 6 kits that are installed in stock form. You might have to go buy 6 stock 350Z's and buy the kits and have them installed at one non-biased shop. In addition, you better run baseline dyno's on each car because there might be some variation among the cars. You might want to do testing on two types of dyno's because I am sure that some will feel the dyno you selected does not measure HP/TQ accurately.

I think you will find that all magazines test cars as they are given to them. I do not know of any magazine that has the budget to go buy cars to install and test them as they would like them set up.

Good luck in your efforts. In the mean time I will stay in California running 91 octane and trying to do my best to give the best possible information regarding aftermarket products for Z/G's in an imperfect world.

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

Wouldn't need 6 test cars.

APS
GReddy
JWT

I don't consider the others as major players
Edit: Maybe the TS and HKS setups if and when they get released

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

the more I see your posts the more I realize you're nothing more than a sackriding, arrogant fool. Please go back to whatever board it is you're a god on and leave the rest of us be.

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

You want me to explain my post.

First off, in terms of TT kits PE and SFR quality is not up to par with the rest of the setups I posted from the reasearch I did. Add to that, there is probably a 20:1 or higher relationship between any of the kits I listed to either of those two setups in terms of the numbers sold.

TN is a ST and I don't feel it's quality is up to par with an APS or JWT setup. I missed my chance to drive a TN setup. The local to me that had one installed, blew his car up. When I go to IL, if there is a TN owner there that would like to meet up I would be more than open to do so. And yes, I have had a brief chance to see the kit and its components.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

Ziv,
Just out of curiousity, why do you rule out the S/T kits? I know a few guys running built motors and Turbonetics kits that are making similar power to what's in your signature. They might experience some lag vs. a TT kit, but I think they're still in the "major player" category.

zland

I have driven all 6 kits and I can say I would not rule out your car regardless of the kit I had in my car.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

You mean I'm not a player in the e-***** triathlon?

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

Thank you Sir!

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

ROFL....Your car makes more power than mine!! Whip it out!!!

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

A more direct apples to apples comparison which doesn't include ST vs TT. I know this will start a onslaught of TN owner responses.

Also because of the quality

Edit:
To some it up, if I were in the market for a FI setup, I wouldn't be looking at the ST option from TN for my car.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

Gotcha...Out of curiousity, from your brief look at the Tnetics kit, what about the quality did you feel was lacking? I have very little exposure to any of the TT kits, so I'm just curious from someone who has seen them and can make a comparison. I personally think the TN kit rocks (obviously). We hit boost a little later, but performance wise, I don't see a big difference in power curves.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

I'd like to hear this too. I've seen many kits, and with the TN stuff in my garage, the parts quality/materials quality, and build quality are far from sub-par.............

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

I asked you, have you had a chance to look at the quality of an APS kit?

TN:
The brackets on the FMIC, the welds showing in the intake piping, I don't like the placment of the turbo, The band clamps used on the exhaust nor the way the exhaust piping runs. I don't like the fact that the kit is a base form has you tap an oil return rather than including a spacer or oil pan.I don't like the fact it relies on a reflash for their base kit - and yes I understand that you can run a separate EMS. I don't like that they don't have any sort of boost control beyond a spring pressure.

I am sure the quality is adequate, but from my point of view, not what I would want in a kit. I just think the fit and finish of the kit is lacking. I know the stage 1.5 will be much more respectable setup.

These are just my thoughts on the kit and what I took into consideration when I made my purchase.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

okay, so you don't like v-band clamps. That's fine though they're some of the simplest and most reliable ways of sealing exhaust without using welds or bolt on/gasket joints. The way the piping runs? well, last I saw, there isn't a TON of space in the engine bay......especially with the placement they chose. And they chose that placement for a reason....i don't know what it is, ask 'em!

brackets on the fmic: Haven't had any reports of breakage yet, have we? don't think so.....so what's the fuss?

welds showing on piping--------that's not a quality issue, that's a cosmetics issue. Ever try grinding down welded piping like that? Very labor intensive. Labor=time=costs extra. I think the black chroming more than makes up for some very nice looking welds (believe it or not, nice welds=show points).

oil return line: Okay, I can understand that gripe, and I'll give it to you. But then again, get the price of the TN kit and a JWT spacer is still less expensive than the other brand.

Reflash: It's been proven reliable and safe. It doesn't have to be tuneable as long as it's safe, does it? Also it's best for people who want to install it in their garage and not have to sweat bullets on the way to x shop to get tuned, but i'll give you this one I guess. I've dealt with the tuning thing before, lots of times, and I just like this setup due to it's simplicity.

boost control beyond external gate. Well, with all my internal gate experience, what more would you want? External gates are more consistent, always have been. Would you prever a super low boost spring and a built in increase in the management offering? I prefer the external gate, where it's set at a reasonable, but not dangerous setting, and the spring is interchangeable to whatever base setting you like. I don't see anything wrong with an external wastegate as boost control.

If you think stage 1.5 will be more respectable, why? There won't be any changes to the welds in the piping, etc. It just adds unichip, injectors, and some other stuff. I'd say, take a look at the pics of Taurran's car. The quality is far above "adequate".

plus their customer service is excellent, as is the warranty.

Though, I figure you're an APS owner, which is fine. I just can't justify paying APS ST money for ST when I can (yes, I can) get a greddy setup minus EMS for the same money. Just wouldn't make sense to me to spend a few hundred more and get the Greddy setup....if I were going for incredible power possibilities.

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough Ziv. I don't think the things you've pointed out are really "quality issues" per se, but I can see how they would factor into your decision, and we'll see over time if any of them prove to be problematic for the large and growing TN user base. I suspect they won't, but only time will tell.

Thanks!