sentry65

iTrader: (11)

I know at least one person somewhere is running the vortech with 2.87 pulley with some sort of waste gate to limit the boost up top. Does anyone have info on that or what would be involved with making a setup like that work?

I'm thinking the vortech blower would run perfectly fine spooling up higher boost numbers in the lower rpms with the 2.87 pulley - but I want to keep the peak power on a leash for the stock block. I suppose the blower would still be spinning a tad fast up high in the rpms, but people seem to be doing it anyway and running fine. I'm just worried about the block since it looks like I'm going to be making 450-460whp with the 3.12 as is with my setup

jakesford

I've read of some people talking about the same thing, but i've never seen an actual setup in working form... It seems like it would work Example: if you have a blower/pulley setup that would make 18psi @ 7k rpms, then you have a wastegate setup just before the throttle body set for 12psi and in theory you would get full boost sooner and for a longer RPM range...

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

I'm kinda rethinking the whole idea of it though. The intercooler won't be able to cool huge amounts of boost with how small it is, so whatever air that does make it into the engine at redline that the wastegate doesn't let out would be hotter I think. And the vortech blower would also be either overspinning or close to it, creating more heat as well.

I suppose the only way to make it work well is with water injection

booger

iTrader: (6)

It was G35spot that was running the wastegate and elec . boost controler to control it . He set it for like 9psi and was running the 2.87 . He tried a manual boost controler , but it couldnt react fast enough . You put it on the pipe before the BOV . So you dont try to cool the air and then bleed it off . Seemed to work pretty well after he got it all figured out

zachcrosen

iTrader: (23)

I thought about doing this myself until I saw the pricing. Below is a PM from Mike @ AAM on what would be needed to do this.

Zach,

Here is a list of parts:

Wastegate
Wastegate Flange
Piping
Silicone Connectors & clamps
Electronic Boost Controller
Fuel System
Larger Injectors
Walboro Fuel Pump
AAM ECU Flash Programming

An estimate for parts is between $3,250 and $3,750, labor runs about $1,500 +/- depending on exactly where you would like everything, and dyno/setup/tuning costs $685.

We've used this setup on stock engines and made great power.

Let me know if that answered your questions!

Thanks,

Mike
__________________
Mike Mahaffey
2003 350Z 471rwhp
www.alteredatmosphere.com

atlsupdawg#2

sentry65,
I brought this up a while back with pretty good feedback from the fellas..
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/170943-controlling-boost-on-a-sc-could-this-work.html

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah scratch that idea, too much involved for just an extra lb of boost earlier

booger

iTrader: (6)

I have one....its called belt slip...from 6000rpm to red line...lol

importofamerica

I am no expert by any means but i am just stating something i remember reading or hearing. The greddy type s has 2 inputs and from what i remember you can adjust it to act as a wastegate but instead of using a bulky wastegate which is really an overkill in this situation you just need to either triple check what i am saying with greddy figure out which port to use set the screw strong enough to hold the pressure put the electronic boost controler on the lower port and when the desired boost is reached the valve opens and make positive pressure below the diaphram causing it to open. small compact and cheap compared to wastegate. in theory you could have a pulley made like 2.5 for evn more boost down low and still be able to stop boost at say 9-10 psi so it would have more down low where we need it to compare to a single turbo setup. i also think you could just do away with the factory BOV and put this in place as it will still act as a regular boost controller since it has a regular port as well. please check what i am tell here as i am drunk currently......(sounds good though)

importofamerica

Spoke with vortech and with HKS USA today as well and this is what i came up with on the idea as its been in my head since i read the post. It can be done and vortech even worked out you could have a pulley made by auto specialties in texas to the size of 2.75 which would be another pound maybe a pound and a half and still be within spec of not overspinning the SC this mod with the HKS valve with the yellow 6-12LB spring installed and adjusted with the screw at the top of the BOV will allow you to dial it in to the 9-10 PSI or whatever it is that your after and be a rather inexspensive upgrade. Now for the real tuners you can add an electronic to that to be able to set it higher or choose a lower spring and connect the line to the bottom port on the BOV. vortech said the pulley may slip as its not enough surface, i think booger has showed us its actually the IC backing up so you want to make sure you set the valve up as it was done by GSPOT35 before the IC. This should take care of it getting backed up as BOOGER has experienced under high boost. here is the info i was refered to from HKS today. i think i am going to try this and if anyone can think of a reason this is incorrect please let me know as i would love th have a nice torque curve along with no lag.

HKS Standard and Racing Bypass valves are push type valves that utilize calibrated spring pressure and vacuum line pressure to remain closed against the pressurized air in the charge pipe. As the throttle is closed, creating vacuum in the line, combined with the force of the pressurized air in the charge pipe, the bypass valve pushes opens and allows the pressurized air to escape. The HKS Standard Bypass Valves are adequate for the airflow associated with engines producing upwards of 300hp. HKS Racing Bypass Valves function similar to the Standard Bypass Valves, but incorporate an additional pressurized port to aid under severe boost conditions. The Racing Bypass Valve can also be used as a safety "pop-off" valve if the second port is connected to a pressure source that does not see vacuum. For added flexibility and function, HKS Racing Bypass Valves are offered in various adjustable boost pressure ranges that are determine by a specific spring pressure.

booger

iTrader: (6)

HKS Standard and Racing Bypass valves are push type valves that utilize calibrated spring pressure and vacuum line pressure to remain closed against the pressurized air in the charge pipe. As the throttle is closed, creating vacuum in the line, combined with the force of the pressurized air in the charge pipe, the bypass valve pushes opens and allows the pressurized air to escape. The HKS Standard Bypass Valves are adequate for the airflow associated with engines producing upwards of 300hp. HKS Racing Bypass Valves function similar to the Standard Bypass Valves, but incorporate an additional pressurized port to aid under severe boost conditions. The Racing Bypass Valve can also be used as a safety "pop-off" valve if the second port is connected to a pressure source that does not see vacuum. For added flexibility and function, HKS Racing Bypass Valves are offered in various adjustable boost pressure ranges that are determine by a specific spring pressure.


This is exactly how the Vortech BOV works . If it can be controled percisely and only bleed off any thing over the set preasure . It should work fine . The problem Gspot35 had , was the manual boost controler bled off to much boost and boost would drop off further than he wanted . Thats the biggest problem to over come with a set up like this. ANd the elec. boost controler took care of the problem for him I believe

jakesford

I don't know about the exact specs on the S trim blower so forgive me... S trim makes approx. max of 20psi, assuming that this occurs at the max efficent impeller speed of 50k rpms you would need like a 2.8" blower pulley and a 5.8" crank pulley for an engine speed of 7k rpms. This is if the extra cog drive is 1-1.

Here is the problem I see with this:
1. You would have to have perfect boost control or its "Boom Biatch"!
2. You are increasing the amount of power required to generate this boost as well as increasing the heat. So if your peak boost number stays the same you will be loosing HP overall especially closer to redline.
3. With Vortechs' serpentine drive you're going to be getting a lot of belt slip, it really wouldn't matter too much since you would be using less psi than what the blower would be providing any ways, but Prochargers' full cog setup would be better suited for this.

importofamerica

so you can adjust the Vortech BOV to do the same as the HKS unit. The only reason i suggested the BOV setup instead of the wastegate is its compact cheap and light and i would not see a reason to recirculate it back into the intake track as its before the MAF so there is no metering loss. i think 38mm would be enough to keep the boost under control. I do agree with JAKESFORD i think any boost control loss and its by by. i think you could do it with the vortech but yes the procharger setup would be ideal the more i think about it. Does the 2.87 start pushing the limitations of the IC ??? or as far as flow goes. I think from reading more of BOOGERS post i think the weakspot on the kit is the I/C. i will admit i like gspot35 torque numbers if they could be tweaked a little more i would be estatic.

booger

iTrader: (6)

The ATI SC still has a serp belt , driving the cog belt . But it will not slip as soon as the Vortech because its shorter . That long span of the Vortech serp belt is the problem

importofamerica

AHHHHHHHHHHH i see said the blind man. I am still real interrested in this as i am very bored so i think i am going to look more into it and see what i can work up. i think if i could just get a BOV reliably set to bleed boost at 9-10 psi i would not even be interrested in the EBC idea at all as its just something more to mess up in the equation. but the 2.89 or maybe a special made pulley thats limited to 9-10 psi makes me happy thinking about it. By any chance does anyone know the exact size of our crank pulley??? thanks

jpc350z

I believe the crank pulley is 5.73 inches..

gspot35

Just to set the record straight, I removed the manual boost controller as Booger said. I did not however replace with an electronic boost controller. I simply relied on the 8 psi spring in the wastegate.

Forget what AAM is trying to sell you guys, you can do this all for about $400 + tuning. PM me if you want details. You don't need injectors, or a fuel system upgrade as you are not using any more air than a stock Vortech setup. They can also keep their reflash too. As far as the wastegate before or after the IC, I had mine before the IC and AAM reinstalled my system in someone else's car and put it after the IC. Their stance at the time was that it shouldn't matter. I think it was just the easy way out.

Good luck to importofamerica on your conquest.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

hmmm before the intercooler - smart, hmmmmm might reconsider the idea

yeah I agree. I don't see how it'd push MORE air if you have the wastegate - i'd just be doing like 3 lbs at 3000 rpms instead of 2 lbs

The only downside I see doing it is the 2.87 would still push the blower rpms at the bleeding edge or possibly barely past their recommended level, but I think that's totally acceptable since it'd only happen when WOT at around 6600 rpms and people have been driving with it like that anyway.

I'd honestly like to limit my top end boost as is right now with the 3.12 pulley - I mean bragging rights for 450-460whp on my setup are cool and all, but I'd rather have more lower end power and less peak power and keep the engine from stressing so hard at redline.


so what wastegate do you buy to make it work and what else if anything do you need?

chris'smax

iTrader: (5)

I have the vortech kit(same blower model as you guys) on my maxima and have been running a 2.87 pulley for over a year w/ no ill effects. A few people have run a 2.62 pulley w/o any problems. Although you are going past the "recomended" impeller speed, it is for a very very short term. Vortech has to be conservative with the number they advertise so they can cover their ****

zachcrosen

iTrader: (23)

PM sent.