It's been a while since a stock sleeve thread has been up. I wanted to get some updates from the high horsepower, stock sleeve guys. I'm getting ready to tune my car on race gas within the next 2 weeks and I'm getting kind of worried and depressed everytime I see a member include in their setup list "Darton MID Sleeves". But on the other hand I see the guys from VRT making over 800hp on stock sleeves without any issues.

So the questions I have are...What headstud setup are you using? What is your current power level and future goals? And what have you seen/heard over the past year regarding the strength of our stock VQ sleeves.

Thanks.

 

Most of the engine guys have told me I don't really need to worry about resleeving unless I'm going for 550+whp.

 

A bit over a year ago I trashed my motor when it popped. Snapped every rod shattered every piston and put 3 fist size holes through the block. When they took out the old motor for the swap we inspectedthe block and the sleeves were completely unharmed. So I think people dont give our stock sleeves enough credit.

 

The sleeves should not crack or break unless maybe something catastrophic happens. The weak link regarding the sleeves is the open deck. At high loads, the sleeves become ever slightly oval due to side loads from the pistons. This plus the high temps near the heads causes the gaskets to fail.

 

Dont get upset/wonder over VRT's claims, they claim they do 600+whp on standard JWT kits not even capable of that much power. Do you have 1/2" head studs? If so TQ'd to what? What head gasket? BTW-and I sincerely mean no offense by this-I doubt your S/C set-up will surpass the limits of the stock sleeves man...if you have good supporting mods to your internals you will be fine. Keep us updated on your numbers.

 

I'm under the impression that stock sleeves are good through the 500's. Whether or not they can handle higher loads is a mystery since everyone who's pushed higher limits has sleeved the block... I'd be interested to see if it could be done. But then again, I think the common census is that added insurance for going into the 600+ range includes the sleeves. Maybe it's just paranoia, but then again, why risk it???

EDIT: +1 on the SC not going that far... Shouldn't be a concern considering your goals.

 

Nobody knows the limits for certain. Originally, many people thought the head gasket issue was the result of sleeve flex. Turns out it was simply inadequate clamping force on the heads.

Until the dust settles, I generally tell people that if you plan is to push for 600whp+, then sleeve it. I'd rather err on the side of caution for now. That said, it wouldnt surprise me if 600whp+ is doable without sleeves.

Since I imagine your goal is about 600whp max with the SC, I think you will be just fine....as long as you have addressed the headlift issue with upgraded studs, and additional trq on your heads.

 

I do not have 1/2 studs. When my motor was being built only the ARP Standard studs were available. OEM Headgaskets. My supercharger setup is a custom cog setup, cog pulleys and kevlar belts, done by Vortech using a T-Trim blower rated at 825hp. I've made 510hp@18psi on pump gas reving to 7k, we plan on retuning with race gas @ 22-23psi and taking it to 8k. My motor is fully built, minus the sleeves.

Engine Setup:
-Pauter Rods
-95.5mm Wiseco 9.1 Pistons
-ARP Main and Head Studs
-Full Ferrea Valvetrain
-Tomei 268's
-ATI Dampner

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming.

 

Berto, old buddy, VRT doesn't make those claims. All VRT's tuning and dyno numbers come straight from JWT. As I've said before in other VRT threads, if you doubt the numbers, you should man up and call the source of the tuning and the numbers: JWT

I plan on running 550-600whp without sleeving the motor. As Sharif said, the proper gaskets and clamping force will make the biggest difference (that and a good tune from somone like, say, Sharif at Forged Performance )

 

Mike, I have spoken to Jim Wolf himself, and he told me the basic JWT TT kit is designed to run 520whp to 550max.

Derek, high levels of trq is what causes the heads to lift. I would be a bit leary of running extremely high boost, without changing out those studs, and applying at least 90ft/lbs of clamping force on them.

 

People will believe what they want to believe, 600+whp on a standard JWT TT is BS. Only a few dyno's will do that, JWT's and Scotts cracked out Dastek, or a manipulated Dyno Dynamics... in the real world those numbers wont be duplicated. Ok Im done I wont jack this post anymore...

 

a lilo thread hijack... if lets say i wanna get my engine build for my goals of "close to 600whp"...
so i need to do a short block upgrade.... i was told since my engine has 50k miles i would need todo a long block upgrade...true or not true? i jstu started fi at 48k
Also waht is "cheaper" ... a build shot block installed or a build long lbock installed....?

 

Use the "search" option on this forum and do some research on what exactly a longblock and a shortblock are before posting on someone elses thread.

 

bla bla bla bla bal..i know ... and i pointed that i was sorry to keep hijacking the thread....i jsut wanted some opinions if because the milage on my engine(heads??) i woudl need to do a full long block instead of a short block.... nothing conclusive on the serach i wanna hear it from some of the poeple who posted here since i have respect for their opinions since they had their attention on this thread....

about whats chepaer, i know long block is jstu bassicaly an easy swap on the installs, but costs more too... the short block cheaper to purchase but requieres way more time on timming and install... so voerall which comes up to be chepaer... if looking for somthign that can handle my power goals... thats it...
already know this studs, this brands of pistons.. this that will hanlde this much... thats not my question..

again sorry for the hijack... good luck with everthing

 

It depends on your financial situation. Of course a built longblock is going to cost more. At 50k miles I would rebuild the heads and block if I could afford it, especially if your trying to make 600hp. You would need to get upgraded valvetrain and cams to help make it to 600.

 

now thats the answer id like to hear... THANK YOU DSport.. =]

Goals are... 570s 580s ...... thansk for the response

 

A lot of poeple don't realize what goes into transforming a shortblock into a longblock...
the gasket overhaul kit from Nissan must be purchased: $300
labor involved with torqing on heads, timing motor, prepping front/rear timing cover, upper/lower oil pan...
on our longblock packages, even if the heads are not upgraded, they are rebuilt, meaning they are disassembled, thoroughly cleaned/vatted, then rebuilt with new valve stem seals, 3 angle valvejob, and redecked

A longblock wil be more expensive because of all of the abovementioned labor and parts..but these are al steps that will need to be performed regardless, and we price out longblocks fully timed and assembled..
hope that helps
-TODD

 

hey tod... i actually spoke to you before... and yah i am aware of what it takes to instal a short lbock... alot of work... so while its cheaper to get that, the significant cost to install it gets the price high, not on the long block, while its way more expensive....the install is significantly cheaper, , so my question was more to ..overalll which would come out ot be cheaper

 

I"m getting ready to push 680rwhp and I'm unsleeved with the new L19 head studs. If my engine/block blows I'll let you guys know

 

good luck!