Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

George, I am starting to favor the Motul 300v 10w-40 for FI street use on built engines, and then switching to the 15-50 Motul 300v right before a track event.

The elements and additives contained in the 300v tend to make getting a good oil analysis very difficult....as the oil tends to mask the real results.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I have a full breakdown on the UOA's done so far, as well as a fairly exhaustive write-up on base stocks and additives in the sticky:
https://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-drivetrain/258663-vq-oil-analysis-and-info.html

There have been no Motul UOA's done on a Z that I have seen. Motul is a very extensive product, and much like Mobil and Eneos, they have different base stocks. Not all 8100 series oils are Ester base stocks, some are Group 3 base stocks and some are Ester/PAO oils. They have different uses and purposes. I personally would love to see a good average result of some 8100 series oils. The 300V is Motul's ONLY full Ester oil. As I said, the rest are blends. I think running 300V on the track is right on, on the street I would bet some of the PAO/Ester/G3+ blends would be better. This was discussed a little more in-depth, with some supporting proof of the results of 300V in a daily driver in this thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ighlight=motul

For more information on Motul that highlights their new 8100 oils, check here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post801323

Motul 8100 X-Cess is a Group 3 based oil with an Ester base stock added. There have been several tests to confirm this, and with NOAACK scores over 11%, it was a not even really questioned. The old E-Tech was a good PAO/Ester base stcok that I have been tempted to try, and is now called the X-Lite, and probably uses similiar base stock formulation. Both would probably be great for the FI crowd. Just because one oil is a G3 and another is G4, or G5- the base stock does not guarantee a superior product. Most tribologists will tell you the additive package is more important.

As far as thick or thin, a higher viscosity oil will have higher higher film strength than a thinner one. And will rob you of some power. Really, the single most critical thing to look at is the oil's HTHS score. The higher the number, the better it will be for you TT guys. Any oil that meets an ACEA A3 rating will have a high HTHS score, such as both Motul 8100 series oils mentioned above, Mobil1 0W-40, and just about every Redline product. Once you have an oil that meets this spec, the next thing to do is start getting some UOA's done until you find the oil that performs the best. If you do this, then please share your UOA result in the sticky I made, I'll post it in the FI oil comparison, and please include what you did while using the oil (like track days, lots of drag strip time, daily altering the rotational spin of the earth with your 700whp beast, etc..) just as Gurgen did with his UOA post.
Will

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

I am running the 300V 5W40 in my G. Alot of places sell it, and many offer free shipping on orders over $100.

350Z_LEE

iTrader: (9)

+1 on the 0-40. I really like this stuff. Mopar puts it in the srt-8's, mercedes vehicles, vipers etc. My cousin/mechanic recomended it to me and it has been working great. I tried RP but went back to the Mobil 1.

redline350ZZ

iTrader: (1)

Hmm so available locally in Hawaii I got...

Mobil1 0W40
-------------------------
Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30
-------------------------

The Mobil would be a better choice for F/I??

I change every 3K so that's not an issue.

NoLimit

iTrader: (7)

have you checked out Vakamon Motorsports yet for Motul?? I know when Farid ran the shop, he Always had some Motul on the shelf....I'm sure Ryan may have continued doing that...

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

If you are FI, I would not be messing around with PP. I think it is a great oil for the daily driver and NA crowd not doing track days (aka 80% or more of the forum). It offers excellent protection at a great price, and is easily found. But, if you are FI, get an oil that has a high HTHS score like the M1 0W-40, any Redline oil (not really a fan), any Motul 8100 series or that meets ACEA A3 spec, ditto that for Amsoil, or something similar. Sorry man, but turbos get hot and FI cylinder heads get hotter than any NA engine whether it's from SC or TT, so there's no point putting money into your engine and skimping out on cheaper oil not designed to survive high oil temps. In fact, just avoid EVERY oil that meets ILSAC GF-4 specs, like the Pennzoil Platinum you're looking at. If you're not sure if an oil you like is going to be a good try, just check the back of the bottle and look for ACEA A3 certification and if it's on the Porsche approval list. That's a good place to start, then look at the oil analysis sticky in the engine/drivetrain forum and go to post #2. Look up your oil on the list there and see if the HTHS score is listed. Higher is better in your case. An ACEA A3 rated oil will have an HTHS score of at least 3.5 Cp. If it's not listed, then check the manufacturer's web site and see how the HTHS scores compare to other oils you're interested in.
Will

redline350ZZ

iTrader: (1)

I took off my Turbo kit for the moment but it's going back on next week (another story) but that's why I was using the PP. It's not about skimping it's about what I can get without waiting 2 weeks lol anyway I can get the M1 0W-40 very easily and if GTM uses it that works for me

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I'm sorry, I wasn't calling you cheap. PP is a great oil and is not cheap compared to the alternatives found on the shelves of auto parts stores. But the expense of something more robust than PP is worth it for a TT engine, whereas it would be a waste for a stock engine. I understand where you're coming from, a lot of oils designed to withstand the heat and shear of an aftermarket turbo kit are just not found on store shelves. Another reason the M1 0W-40 is such a good buy.
Will

GTM

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for your post Will, your knowledge on Oils is amazing I hope soon to contribute to the thread with some of my oil analysis once my car is back up and running.

Take care,

-George
GT Motorsports

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Im taking my 2nd oil sample today! 32XX miles since my last of Motul 8100 5W40. Will post results in the sticky some time next week! I think Im gonna try Mobil 1 0w-40 this time. I hope there is less lead in this analysis...

350Z_LEE

iTrader: (9)

^^You will like the 0-40 bert.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I like the Motul also, but having to order my oil is kinda ghey, I can go to Wal-Mart and buy Mobil 1. I ragged the p!ss out of my car these 3000+ miles, it never went under 4500rpm's the whole weekend at the dragon, and it "only" burned about 3/4 of 1 quart in that time span. That is excellent in my opinion for such abuse and that many miles, many guys after 1 track day are 1 qt or more low...

GTM

iTrader: (12)

+1 I also think you will like it, Please post up the results when you get them its nice to have a few cars to compare the results on.

Mobil 1 0-40 is OEM on Porsche for a reason...

Good luck!

-George
GT Motorsports

Gilley

iTrader: (12)

I found that my local Advance Auto Parts store also carries the Mobil 1 0w-40.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Thanks! I can't wait to get some more FI UOA's in the sticky.

I think the FI UOA comparison will be a little tougher to get consistant trends with. In a regular oil analysis, the oils will typically show very consistant behavior in a particular engine. Regardless of how a person drives or the climate, the oil will be pretty consistant and wear will be within a few parts per million as long as the mileage is relatively close on each sample. The factors that cause major deviance in the results are engine problems like anti-freeze, fuel or dirt from a bad air filter. UOA's with these issues I ignore from posting since they don't reflect the oil's ability to protect. Another issue would be extensive track use. Extensive track use means a race car. I put just over 400 miles of track use on my last oil sample, and it had a very negligable, almost no effect, on the oil compared to average results. The most comon issue for a deviance in the way an oil behaves from one sample to the next, in the same engine, is if additives are used. Otherwise, an oil's results will be pretty close in terms of wear results from the same engine. An example is the Amsoil 5W-30, whose results are all consistant for higher lead wear over the 0W-30, despite coming from five diferent engine samples and five different drivers in five diferent climates. Each sample had no additive used, and was not from a race car, and as such each was consistant in the results.

Now, I said all of that to get to this point, that an aftermarket FI engine is totally different. Stock VQ's obviously have the same bearings, pistons, clearances, etc... to keep an oil's behavior in that engine fairly consistant. In a FI engine, different piston to wall clearances exist, different bearings are used with different clearances from engine to engine, etc... not to mention different turbo designs with different cooling and boost levels. So I think there might be an issue seeing trends develop between oils from FI engines like the trends from NA VQ engines. The more FI UOA's we get, the more we'll see if this is true or not. But, just because one oil does well in a FI engine or bad in that engine, I would be cautious to say that the same results will carry over to another engine from a different builder.

As such, I am very excited to see builders like yourself do UOA's on your engines to see what works best. I think listening to an engine builder's recommendation is the way to go with a FI engine, but I wonder how many builders actually test the oil to really see if there is a better or worse performing oil for their build. In an engine from the same builder using the same parts, oil performance could have consistant results in different engines.
Will

IslandZavage

iTrader: (8)

Whats good about the 0-40 Mobil??? curious..

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

Check out the sticky in the main engine/mods forum...

0w40 had very low numbers.

Additives are not going to mask any results.. There are NO lead, iron, aluminum in the oils, and their presence in the used oil can ONLY come from the engine. and those are the key numbers that we look for to ascertain wear.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

The 0W-40 is a very good performing oil, and easy to find.

As far as masking the results, the easy way to get around that is to have a virgin oil analysis (VOA) done. This way you'll know just what's in the oil when it comes out the bottle. Then, when you get your used oil results, you can compare and see how much the oil changed. I have a VOA done for M1 0W-40, Amsoil ASL & TSO oils, and some racing oils. As an example of an oil that would need a VOA, consider NEO. NEO makes some pretty impressive racing oil, but I pitty the fool that runs it in his street car. It is freakishly high with either Lead Dialkyldithiocarbamate (PbDTC) or lead oleate, or both. It also used obscene amounts of ZDDP, a diester base fluid and alkylamines. Tons of Calcium, too. There could be no faster way to void the warranty than by putting that stuff in an engine that will not see sustained high load, high rpm use for a few hours and then have the oil drained. And you'd still have to kiss your cats good-bye. Racing oils, like most things made exclusively for the track, have their place off the street. The UOA results on this oil would make you think you're engine was about to destroy itself if you didn't know better.

However, none of the oils we've discussed so far in this thread are as extreme as the NEO. Even Motul 300V is perfectly fine to test, with the virgin sample being very high in Moly (which reveals it's main anti-wear additive) and showing no trace metals in the sample to exaggerate any wear from a UOA done. I have attached a VOA of the 300V below. The 2ppm of iron is normal, even the M1 0W-40 VOA had 2ppm in it. Anyone who uses this oil and gets a UOA done can trust the results as being an accurate indication of wear.
Will

GurgenPB

iTrader: (2)

awesome, now that we have a VOA, we should have no problem deducing results for this one.