justusS

Was doing the TT install and decided to put in a LW flywheel and new clutch while I had everything out.

Didn't have too much trouble with the install, but I'm having problems getting the car started.

The initial attempts to get it started didn't work. I then tried using throttle and it would sort of sputter but nothing really promising.

At that point the MAF was switched around (thinking that I had it backwards) and it actually ran (after many many cranking attempts). I had it idling at one point with the MAF in this position (SEL came on as well), but after it was off again to trace an exhaust leak....it never came back on.

MAF was then switched back and several more cranking attempts later I got it to idle again. I still had the SEL light on and if I throttled past 2.5kish it would throttle dump and almost die (like ECU safe mode).

I got it started a couple times in this last configuration but it would take a lot of cranking before it would turn over. I first thought I messed up the e-manage wiring so I tried all the above with and without the e-manage plugged in.

After getting out the OBD scanner, I had a P0113 (IAT sensor 1 circuit high input) and a P0011/0021 (camshaft position actuator a bank 1/2 timing over advan). I think i got the IAT from messing around with the MAF, but unsure about the camshaft.

I cleared the codes and they stayed off, but the car no longer started (just sputter and die). It started again eventually with a lot of throttle, but the camshaft position codes came back and it would still die at the 2.5k cutout. When I cleared the codes again the car is back to the sputtering and dieing.

I thought maybe a ground got messed up since the camshaft sensor was never actually touched. Still the same results with a jumper cable on battery negative and connected to tranny base.

So what I'm fearing is the flywheel is installed in the wrong position, and screwing up the firing. I have the Fidanza wheel and it had two spots for the dowel (forward and aft marked holes) that were about 30 degrees apart. The gap spacing on the OEM wheel was measured against the new one and it looked like a match with the dowel installed in the aft marked hole.

Is anyone familiar with the Fidanza wheel and what hole is used? I didn't think it was possible for the car to actually start with the flywheel installed wrong, but if it saw it messed up and went off the camshaft for timing, would it allow the engine to run with the ECU in safe?
If that were true, why didn't it throw a crankshaft position fault instead?

I've tried cleaning off the POS sensor and still the same.

I'm obviously a little frustrated with my car right now and would appreciate any help/advice

Thanks in advance.

justusS

uhg...no ideas?

Jay'Z

iTrader: (118)

If you search you will find alot of clutch install problems when you try DIY.. There is a thread on here if you dont correctly align the clutch it will do as you described.. The sensor is really sensitive/*****y..

bbs350z

iTrader: (85)

did u plug in the e-manage/ mess w/ wires?? check all your wiring, throttle body, etc. give a thorough check over your entire engine. maybe u screwed sumthing up when u put in your injectors, etc.

justusS

Yeah, I used an add-on harness for the e-manage so I didn't touch any of the factory wires. I've tried all that with the e-manage plugged and unplugged. That didn't seem to make a difference.

I checked over all the injectors and they are plugged into the right spots as well as all the other wires that came off during install. It's all installed and nothing is caught or pinched.

The hardest part is that my symptoms havn't been consistent. If I had never got the car to idle (just sputter and die), I would have immedietly looked at replacing the camshaft POS or check the flywheel position. But being that it actually ran and idled as well, it leaves me confused. The only time it did idle was when I got the P0011/21 codes, and if I cleared them, it would go back to the sputter/die during start

What I'm wondering is if the ECU would allow you to run the engine in limp mode with just the camshaft sensor running for timing? Like if I all of sudden had a failed POS sensor while driving, would the car just stop running or would it let me go in limp to get to the shop.

The code in the service manual actually equates to both the cam and crank sensors as well as an unisolated ground.

justusS

how else can I line the clutch up? the plate slipped on with the alignment tool installed, and the cover only had one position where the screws all lined up ;/

Jay'Z

iTrader: (118)

Gimme a sec....

Jay'Z

iTrader: (118)

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....00#post3102300

Here ya go...... Double check your steps with that....

justusS

Thanks for the info.

I used a pilot bushing removal tool from autozone, and both the new bushing and throwout bearing went in without a hitch. I used the alignment tool that came with the clutch kit (I didn't see anything in the thread about this) so the transmission went right back in without any twisting/turning.

As far as the clutch goes, it really only lined up one way against the flywheel. The flywheel had two spots (similiar to the JWT) for the dowel to plug into, but they aren't marked for which one to use on the Z.

I tried unplugged the sensor to see if I had a bad sensor and as soon as it's unplugged it throws a crankshaft sensor circuit error and clears once I plug it back in.

justusS

Well, I got the car started again this time with the POS crankshaft sensor plugged in but not actually installed in the transmission hole.
ODB threw a crankshaft ignition circuit fault but didn't put the car in limp mode this time (weird). Of course clearing the fault kills the engine and put it back in the sputtering start.

I talked to Fidanza and I definitely have the flywheel installed in the correct hole (FYI, the front/rear holes denounce the VQ drivetrain configuration because they use the same flywheel for the FWD VQ's). They did mention that it could be possible for a defect in the gap spacing to cause the problems I'm having

I pinned out the connector circuit and the sensor for grounds using the service manual and a multimeter…everything appears to be ok. Even though I bagged the sensor the second I pulled it out, it could have still been damaged in way that wouldn't be flagged by just reading resistances on pin to pin and pin grounds. Unfortunately I still can't rule out that the sensor is good.

Looks like the next step will be to pull the transmission down again (yay) and verify the flywheel is good. I’m thinking the POS sensor is probably good and the flywheel itself has some sort of a defect that is messing up the sensor. It might be close, but off just enough to mess up the firing order. It then probably takes the ECU a bit (which is why I have to throttle on startup) before it throws the crankshaft sensor data out the window and uses the camshaft sensor (Which would then allow me to idle and rev fine with the cam sensor controlling firing). Either way I'll probably put the OEM one back on and make sure that this is actually my problem.

On a side note if anyone's interested in pictures for the install I took plenty (could use it as an example of what not to do ;/)
Have some good shots of the greddy install and transmission removal (flywheel, clutch, throwout bearing, pilot, and tools used).

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

Sounds like a wiring issue or Crank Position sensor issue...GO over everything and then have a fresh set of eyes go over you work again. The flywheels usially have a dowel pin on them, so you cant install them wrong..Usually...

justusS

I've had another set double check all the connectors and triple check the grounding, as I first thought that was the issue as well. We also added grounding with a jumper cable on the battery negative to the transmission with no changes to the symptoms

Also, a wiring issue to me would definitely give me a more consistent error....and I if it were enough to give me trouble getting the car started, probably wouldn't let me idle and I would think I would be getting some more codes that just those two sensors. OBD codes are stuck on the crank and/or cam sensors...

Ya, I know I put it on the right dowel pin, and verified it was the right one with Fidanza today. I'm thinking I have a messed up flywheel and something isn't up to par with the OEM wheel measurements. Going to pull it off and do a thorough check.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

Also make sure no one "DROPPED" your crank position sensor..If it was dropped, it might have messed it up...Replace with a known good one to see..

justusS

Thought I'd throw an update to this and hopefully help someone else out in the future.

After taking the transmission back off, I found out that the dowel was actually not lined up to the hole that I thought it was. It was hard to see with just a light, but using a sharpie and making marks on the inner bore and crank then making respective marks on the outside diameter of the wheel and the transmission....it was easy to see the difference. While the holes are probably 20 degrees apart, it's pretty hard to see it on the inside diameter vice the same degree distance on the outside.

While I was mad at screwing that up, I'm glad it didn't end up being something broken.

Anyway, lesson's learned:
1. Use magic marker on both sides of the flywheel inner and outside diameter to make a more acurate lineup.
2. The ECU is dependent on the flywheel position sensor as part of the ignition timing circuit. The reason I was able to start the car with different symptoms ended up making sense. When I left the flywheel sensor in, it would turn over with lots of throttle eventually but the vacuum would would be horrible at idle (because the engine is trying to fire the pistons on the messed up flywheel spacing), and the car would run disgustingly rich.

At that point, it would throw the camshaft sensor error because it would look at the cam sensor and think the spacing was all messed up (even though it was right). Regardless of what the cam sensor reported, the flywheel is the primary sensor...so as long as it's receiving voltage at the ECU, it believes the input is good.

It wasn't until I unplugged the flywheel sensor that things started coming together. After cranking with the flywheel sensor out or unplugged, the car would eventually turn over with a ignition timing circuit error (ECU now figuring out the flywheel sensor is out of commision). With the car idling on just the cam sensor, it had a solid 20in vacuum and idled perfectly.

3. The service manual is actually pretty good when it comes to advanced troubleshooting. Everything from checking expected voltages to the ECU terminals and resistance to ground for all the wiring and pin to ping resistances on the sensor was all in the manual. While I ended up getting a replacement flywheel sensor just for verification, the readings were good on the original and both worked flawlessly on the car (once the flywheel was put on right ;P).

(edit) 4. Forgot...while I thought it was a good idea to drop in the flywheel while I had everything off for the turbo install, it defintely would have cut down my troubleshooting time if I had done one install at a time. Less things to look at...

All in all it was a humbling experience. Was rather annoyed at myself for messing up the flywheel posistion (even though I remember looking at it like 3 times ;/). Live and learn...

z2g

iTrader: (20)

Glad to see you figured it out. I know it will help someone out later.

QuadCam

iTrader: (8)

how hard was it to take the tranny off withe the greddy installed? Just curious what needs to be removed to get the tranny off. Do you have to remove the cast downpipes and wstegates?

justusS

I took just the wastegates and downpipes off. While you might find a tool to get in above the gates to get to the transmission, it would be hard as hell to get any force on it to break it loose, and I don't even know how you could put 50lbs of torque on it trying to get back in.

I had an extremely hard time getting to the bolts for the wastegates around the downpipe, so I just took them both out.

Even if you can get to the transmission bolts, I honestly don't think the transmission would back out without hitting the inside portion of the gate.

I kinda perfected getting the downpipe on real easy so I just went that route.

I'll throw up some pictures of the transmission pull..

westpak

iTrader: (19)

Yeah the wastegates are in the way of the tranny, you might be able to get away with losening the wastegates to allow some movement and try to wiggle the tranny out.

Using dumps makes things so much easier.

merlin3

iTrader: (4)

nope transmission can't be pulled with the wastegates on at all. At least that was my experience of having the engine half out but getting the wategates stuck on the transmission.

westpak

iTrader: (19)

I think when we did mine we took one off and losened the other and squeezed the tranny out, not easy, I agree best way is to remove them.