chart attached for turbo/TT kits. Was looking for one for s/c kits thats as detailed and easy to read as this one

 

Where did you find that at ? There really is only 3 SC kits for our cars and you really only can compare two of the three

 

I forget which magazine did it

 

that thing is a little misleading

the PE and SFR kit's mean hp and mean tq figures need to be completely ignored because of the "no data" areas

also consider the rpm range you'll be in when you go WOT and average them together


A member on G35Driver and I did make a chart like this before comparing SC's and even a TN kit. He started with the Sport Z magazine article between the stock stillen, vortech, and ATI, then I later added in some more figures, but from other dynojets so they're not exactly scientific, but at least give you a ballpark idea. I'll see if I can find it

 

Im sure Sentry can make you a chart showing all SCer's and all TT and ST kits. Comparing all of them at all PSI levels and it would be soooo acurate that nothing else would be needed !!!!

 

alright, like I said this is a ballpark idea with averaging numbers and I updated it and cleaned it up some

We have yet to see anyone really do any sort of accurate test between all superchargers and turbos or whatever at all boost settings. It would be a pretty massive undertaking gathering up 5 or 6 APS TT cars at 5 or 6 power levels, 5 or 6 stillen cars at 5 or 6 power levels, etc etc for each kit, all at one location, and then dyno on the same dyno on the same day.

It's not going to happen.

Even that turbo chart from sport Z magazine has kits with different boost levels and power levels etc. One kit might have a huge exhaust and another might have a small exhaust, but their wastegates both keep things at 8 psi of pressure. Comparisons like this get sloppy because what exactly are we comparing? The FI kits or the cars? All the cars have drastically different mods going on

This is roughly the next best thing for those of us that don't have a dyno in our garage with lots of runs from different cars to compare to each other. They're all dynojet numbers. I actually would be willing to bet they're not even using the same correction factor, but consider this:

every car is going to be different somehow anyway. So at least this shows you a ballpark of what numbers are for superchargers


I have some really nice ATI dynos on hand, but they're not dynojet dynos or have some kinda messed up errors - like the car was losing boost etc. I want to keep all the numbers dynojet so they're comparable to sport Z magazine's numbers. So anyway there's some really strong ATI's out there too

I also have some other stillen dynos, but am lazy to add them and I have yet to find a solid stage 4 dynojet dyno of a stillen



when I say "stage 2" for the vortech, I just mean it's more powerful than the "stage 1" or stock vortech car. There's LOTS of in between dynos out there and I'm not going to include them all. The "stage 3" vortech is my car BTW

The stillen "stage 3" really is a stillen stage 3

 

Very nice sentry, helpful as always lol

 

Thanks for posting. These are always interesting to see.

 

Expand on what is considered Stage 2 and 3 for the Vortech. Almost 80hp from Stage 1 to Stage 2 seems to be quite a lot.

 

I don't remember what the guy had for that chart. I shouldn't have really called it "stage 2"
Maybe "scenerio 2" or "version 2"

he probably had the 2.87 pulley, exhaust, cats/test pipes, maybe plenum, tune, etc

I thought about digging up a 3.12 pulley chart and including it, but didn't feel like it when you can still see the range the vortech covers with the 3 dynos on there already

 

Gotcha. I think a 3.12 chart would be better since most do not opt for the 2.87 on the stock block.

 

as a quickie, you can always take that "stage 2" vortech and the stock vortech dyno and just average the numbers.

I know that sounds sloppy, but it probably wouldn't be all that out of line with mean numbers considering these dynos are mainly to show you the ballpark anyway

for instance:
overall mean hp would be somewhere around 230 hp
overall mean tq would be somewhere around 279 tq

WOT mean hp would be somewhere around 300 hp
WOT mean tq would be somewhere around 296 tq




the WOT mean numbers are a very generalized average. For instance on the 6 speed, you're only hitting around 4000 rpms during 1st and 2nd gear. Shifting at redline in 2nd, means you'll end up close to 4500 rpms in 3rd. Then the of the gears will actually start you a little over 5000 rpms. So as you go WOT down the 1/4 mile, you spend more and more time in the upper-most portion of the "WOT rpm range"

But i figured for the 5AT's, that drop into slightly lower rpms, 4000-6500 rpms is a reasonable average for a "WOT rpm range"





if people really want to take it far, you can calculate the mean hp/tq for each specific gear for the WOT rpm range you're going WOT in

6MT
1st gear = idle or launch rpm to 6600 rpms
2nd gear = about 4000 to 6600
3rd gear = around 4600=6600
4th gear = about 5150-6600
5th gear = 5180-6600
6th gear = 5200 to 6600 rpms

there's always some room for error though depending on how fast you're able to shift and not let your speed drop much as you're shifting gears

 

That chart is more misleading then you might think.

 

which chart? the first one or the one I posted?

I know mine is full of errors, it's just a ballpark reference on other dynojet charts that've been posted

what'd be better is if a shop who's done several supercharger setups to post up a lot of comparison charts that had roughly the same ambient outside temps.
We'd still have no idea what each car's mods, timing map, fuel octane etc are though. You can't really compare psi to psi from supercharger to supercharger because it's going to vary with each car. You could have two cars with the same "psi" but have a completely different exhaust, timing map, intake temps (like water injection or not) etc so it's best to just look at the power made in the end with the different cars. That's what's important anyway.

 

Well lets just do a comparo for the Vortech that Sentry has so nicely took time to put together .

Stage1 335whp @ 7-8psi
stage2 410whp @ 8-9psi
atage3 477whp @ 10-11psi

Now if this is anywhere close to being right that would be 144whp on 4psi of boost...lol . Thats a little rediculous .The only way you could do a correct stage comparo for Vortech's different pulleys , is to put each pulley on and tune it . With out any other mods added in between . Which isnt going to happen unless that was your intentions any way .
So Sentry's litle chart has no reality to it . Also his little chart was done mostly from his experience and using two different dyno's....the last being a DynoJet ...hence the huge gain from Stage 2 to 3 .

 

Stage 1 to Stage 2 75hp increase
Stage 2 to Stage 3 67hp increase

I wasn't aware there were such large increases with just a pulley change. I know on my car, I got 390rwhp with the stock pulley and another member on the same dyno with the same mods and the 3.12 pulley got 410rwhp.

 

I only included 3 vortech charts. If I included every possible step with upgrades on the vortech, there'd be like 12 vortech charts listed. So I skipped a bunch of configurations and just went with what I had lying around that were done on dynojets

the 3.12 pulley generally adds around 20 whp and the 2.87 pulley adds something around 25-30whp by themselves. But power can still be made with bolt ons and tune/gas. To make 75 or 67whp more, you'd need a combo of parts.


I'm pretty sure the base vortech on that chart is pretty much bone stock.

The "stage 2" and "stage 3" cars both have other things going on to increase power other than just a pulley change.


For example, that "stage 2" car probably had some combo of upgraded the cats, exhaust, possibly headers or not, plenum, a tune, using the 3.12 or 2.87 pulley depending on how much timing was pulled or the combo of parts. There's all sorts of ways to reach 420whp

My "stage 3" car then took the "stage 2" car and added an even higher flowing exhaust, cams, water injection, standalone, really aggressive tune with lots of timing on race gas, 2.87 pulley, among other minor things

 

exactly
With out any other changes , a 1 psi increase is getting you about 10 to 15 whp . The same as adding back timing . 1 degree in most cases is netting you 10whp .

again ..Sentry's comparo [ although time consuming Im sure ] isnt helping at all and only adds to the confusion to all the modding and dynoing that we do .
That is only the tip of the iceberge...you have to throw in tuners playing tricks with the dyno read outs . Being top dog as a owner and a tuner is SOOOOOOOOOO important on this site your know !

 

Even if the pulleys themselves nets you the ~25hp, I think you're stretching it to think that the usual bolt ons are going to gain you 40hp. Now let's assume that you go from the stock pulley to the 3.12 where you gain 25hp and and all the bolt ons get you the ~40hp that gives the numbers you suggest, how do you then account for the other ~40hp you say you get when you go to the 2.87 pulley (aside from the ~25 we already have agreed that you could get from the pulley)?????

 

It really is funny how much whp the kit has gained over 3 years time . Ive been around watching the whp from the kit from the beginning . It started at around 320whp for AT5's and 345whp for MT6's . With tuning you could add 20whp...then it went to 40whp and then 50whp out of the box tuned stock kit . Although the stock box tuned was really safe and rich . A 50whp is a bit much .
I remember one guy said he was tuned [ by a vendor on this site ] and made 425whp with the stock kit . Some time later he went to add the 3.12 pulley . They did a before dyno and got 348whp and he was asking what happened to his whp...lol . But the funny part was...they added the pulley and tuned and got 430whp ...348whp tuned...add 2psi....magically gain 82whp on 2 psi...lol not going to happen .