Originally Posted by 350Z_LEE

It's more like there are 3 sides to every story. His, mine, and the truth. Not to discredit myself, or the validity of anything I mentioned, it just seems like certain "people" like to paraphrase and change up things to benefit them. So yes, I guess the maximum effective range of these threads are ZERO, but it should serve as a reminder, to really investigate who you take your car to.

Originally Posted by doug

you should never bring a knife to a gun fight..

Originally Posted by crmd37

i can bring heat, haha don't worry about that at all, i'm just saying it seemed kinda lame that everyone was bashing SGP when they only heard one side of the story, most of ya'll are acting like a bunch of sheep or something when you don't leave room for both sides of the story and just jump on the band wagon, i'm just trying to make it a fair fight! not saying anyone is wrong, and a rant to me is telling your side of the story with all your frustrations and emotions put into it, that's what i feel like "ranting" is...i hope you guys get this resolved soon cuz i hate it when people bash any of the shops when they don't know what goes on there (i'm guilty as well and that's why i hate it, lol). sorry for the miscommunication of our separate definitions of a "rant" as well, my bad, i should've clarified

Lee, i agree with you too bro, his, yours, and the truth is the way to justice for sure homie! i just hope there are happy medians with these 3 sides of the stories

Originally Posted by crmd37

i can bring heat, haha don't worry about that at all, i'm just saying it seemed kinda lame that everyone was bashing SGP when they only heard one side of the story, most of ya'll are acting like a bunch of sheep or something when you don't leave room for both sides of the story and just jump on the band wagon, i'm just trying to make it a fair fight! not saying anyone is wrong, and a rant to me is telling your side of the story with all your frustrations and emotions put into it, that's what i feel like "ranting" is...i hope you guys get this resolved soon cuz i hate it when people bash any of the shops when they don't know what goes on there (i'm guilty as well and that's why i hate it, lol). sorry for the miscommunication of our separate definitions of a "rant" as well, my bad, i should've clarified

Lee, i agree with you too bro, his, yours, and the truth is the way to justice for sure homie! i just hope there are happy medians with these 3 sides of the stories

Originally Posted by doug

really have no reason to think Gman is lying..

if you have read Gman's posts in the past you know he is a class act.. and his turmoil is well documented on this site.. take some time to click on his profile then click on threads started by Gman..

its not like he got a raw deal and posted the next day, the man has been waiting for 1 year to tell his story. Sharif and Sam know his story, two of top Z/G tuners/installers on this country including i would say maybe 5 more guys.

I didn't need to see Mark's post to believe if Gman is telling the truth or not.. everyone knows what Gman has been through.. we just didn't know who was behind it.

Originally Posted by Navygolf13

I hear what you are saying, and I cant speak for crmd, but I always believe that the way each party in a situation like this remembers things is a little different than the way it happened. I know it happens to me, and I am sure it happens to a busy shop like SGP. Not meaning it is okay, but this is the reason that people, in my opinion, should handle this stuff on a personal level away from the forums and other people who may be influenced by what is being said.

As for people jumping on the bandwagon....I agree 100000% people do it all the time, and it is really annoying! This has nothing to do with whether someone is telling the truth or not, because as I said above it is almost impossible to remember everything about a situation especially after a whole year. These threads invariably turn into bashing a company and mostly from people that have never had any contact with them, I think that is the problem. I can understand somewhat why people post these here, and I am not saying you shouldnt have Gman just not what I would have done.

All in all I hope that people that jump in discussions like this and bash people or companies learn to hear everything out, because I think most people do not mean to leave a job unfinished or done improperly, but it happens and people have to understand it is not always done maliciously(sp).

I guess I just get so frustrated with people hating one way or the other....cant we all just get along?

Originally Posted by doug

unless i am reading a different thread.. i havn't seen anyone jump on the bandwaggon.. i have seen people comfort Jorge, i have seen people ask where is SGP's response.. and i have seen people share their personal experiences..

i don't recall reading any posts where anyone turned on SGP directly without having any interaction... i wouldn't really expect that in the FI Forum anyway.. The FI Forum is probably the most mature forum on this site.

Originally Posted by Navygolf13

I hear what you are saying and I am by no means trying to say anyone is right or wrong....and I have dealt with Mark so I know how he treated me. I just hate seeing this here or anywhere else because like I said, and I think you would agree, there are always two sides to a story. Personally I think you got the short end of the stick, but it is so hard to tell from posts here from both sides.

I hope your car is better and you enjoy it now. I have heard many good things about Sam and, I do not think he has anything to lie about. Like I said it is just hard because unless people here making up their minds were involved on every aspect of this transaction it is hard to know when you dont remember something accurately or Mark. I do not think anyone intentionally does this, but it does happen.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

look, mark's read this thread... he's not tried to explain his side nor has he contacted Jorge in reference to his fscking him... so, there's no one-sided bias here... it is what it is... all parties involved know of this thread... it speaks volumes that mark hasn't even responded...

Originally Posted by stormcrow

it speaks volumes that mark hasn't even responded...

Originally Posted by SGP_Racing

That was looked upon badly too. I had thought that if I would have posted while he was gone, everyone would have said I was waiting for that too. I was not even able to read the post until late Friday & was busy all day today. If it really matters, the SGP account is for the whole office, not just me. I guess the first thing that needs to be addressed is the issues in order. First thing George, I was in Sebring for the race the week before I flew down to meet you in Miami. You were going to rent a car for me to drive down but, that did not happen due to time so, I purchased a Plane ticket & flew down to meet you in the Airport. When the shop fell through that we were supposed to work in, I called a friend in West Palm. We then started the 2 hour drive up there to borrow a little space. I removed the EU from the car, repaired the harness & started over. At about 9 P.M. or so, we finished & headed back to Miami.

You keep saying that I ripped you off; I guess you do not remember what I did & did not do that weekend. First, _I_ paid for my flight down there & back; I charged you $0.00 for the VPRO install; I paid Ritchie $100.00 for letting us use his shop that day because we were in his way; actually, I charged you nothing for my time at all & paid for anything else that you would let me. I did that because I was your friend & it was never all business when we talked. On the other hand, you paid for 2 nights in the Hotel & dinner.

I hooked up the Knock Amp A/F & Knock Input so that I could hear the sensor on the headphones & YOU yourself actually left the 02 sensor outside of the exhaust so that I could run the calibration before we started the car. Every VPRO / Knock Amp installer I know of uses the headphone jack to listen for the tone change before audible detonation to tune on the VQ’s. Especially on a built block with cams, they are just too noisy to leave on feedback. They pick up everything from the pistons to the valvetrain. Being able to hear the signal though lets you tune them to the edge then back them off. I use a sound analyzer program as well with the microphone jack to actually be able to log & see the sensors output in a visual on the laptop.

As for the Intake Air Temp sensor, every car manufacturer in the world places them in the same place. We mount them in the plenum sometimes too though, it actually makes things easier as they hold a steady temp & do not differentiate once the engine is warm.

Your wastegate relocation kit was actually one of the first few sets we made & we had to purchase all of the $38.00 321SS flanges, the 321SS 90 degree mandrel bends, Stainless nuts & bolts, then Tig weld everything. It was expensive to do & I told you before we started on them what price they would be.

When I left Miami, you drove me to the Airport in the car & we ran it through the fields and backroads down there a lot the night before as well and when I left you were happy. I received a message from you 2 months later telling me that your idle was rich. I told you that I could not get there for @ least 7 weeks because of my follow up back surgery but, I would call you as soon as I could get down there. I called you several times afterwards and had no response. When I finally got in touch with you, you told me that you had gotten the car re-tuned & the injectors changed & that you were upset because of what you were told about the knock amp. I then told you why it was that way & said that I was working on a plenum for the cars & since you had to have it redone I would send you one when I finished the first piece I could send out. I did not offer it to you to make up for something. You never told me your feelings about any of this, not even when you called the other day asking if I had finished the plenums. Hell, honestly, you never even acted that mad then or otherwise! All you had to do was tell me exactly what you were thinking or felt & we would have worked it out.

I tried to do everything I could for you when you were happy, why would you think that I would not take care of **** now? I have always gone way above & beyond for everyone that we talk to, work for, or deal with. Every single one of our customers knows that if I can help them, I will…. Most of the times that I try & help someone like 350ZLee, I find out that I should not have done anything for them because I regret it in the end…

Speaking of Lee… Lee actually came to us to install a UTEC & tune his PC’d car. We installed the UTEC, Installed a BOV & He was off. He wanted to run a 9 PSI pulley but, he had NO FUEL already and was maxing out his injectors around 6000 – 6200 RPM. I told him to get a Fuel system, Injectors & a MAP sensor for his UTEC before he had problems. He said he “could not do it right now but, I want to run the car @ the track with my drag radials.” He then asked me “could I pay for them ½ now & ½ in a month on the 4th?” I actually worked out a deal with him where his Girlfriend called in, gave us her CC # & said “you can charge this much now & the rest on the 4th of next month. Lee is going to pay me back then.” I send the pieces to Louisiana for him & had loaded a 750cc base map on the UTEC for him & he had his cousin install the parts. He then calls me to tell me that the car is not running right & really rich. I told him the fuel system is most likely having issues, you need to have the install checked over & then get it tuned. He tells me he cannot do it for a while but the car is running so/so on lower fuel pressure. Around the 9th or so of the next month we run the balance on his GF’s CC; 5 days later then she had instructed us to do so. A few weeks later we get a call from her saying “Lee & I are no longer together & I am NOT paying for his parts.” I tell her to have Lee call me & we will credit the last charge back if he will send payment. Lee calls & says he will send a check in the next 2 days, we credit her card back & never see any check OR ever hear from Lee again. The next thing I hear is that he has gone to Sharif, had his fuel system repaired for the “leaks & issues”, then tuned & everything is now great…. Imagine that??? Just like I told him... So, as it stands, he received a set of 750cc Injectors, CJ Fuel return system & a 4 bar MAP for 600.00 & now, through this post we find out that somehow, WE are the *******s?????

If anyone has a problem or issue with us, call us & tell us EXACTLY what is wrong. For that matter, If anyone has a problem or issue with _anyone_, LET THEM KNOW. We cannot help anyone with anything IF we do not know what is going on….

It is late, I am going home…

Mark

Originally Posted by Navygolf13

Here you go stormcrow....not saying this is better on way or the other for what actually went down, but you both missed this and this is why I think this type of thing is a problem.

Originally Posted by ronie

jorge has no reason to lie...i am here to vouch for every time hes had his car break on him and was there with him when mark flew down to tune his car... i really thought mark knew his **** on vq motors(obviuosly didnt turn out that way)...i dont think jorge is bashing anybody he is simply sharing his side of the story wich once again is completely true in order to let everyone know what kind of people youre dealing with when u go to sgp...pretty sure jorge gives a rats *** which shop anyone decides to have them work on there car, hes simply letting the forum know "his experience with sgp"...and for that im pretty sure alot of people agree with me iswhy theres is a forum in the first place( in order to help people out)...by the way jorge youre car is really one sick machine...remeber the time you took me n humby out for the ride after mark tuned youre car, one word explains it ...WOW...never could figure out why youre car idled so bad though i thought it was just the cams u went with...once again jorge has no reason to lie he really is a class act...all of you that dont believe him or dont like what hes doing then there are a million other threads to read in this forum...later

RONIE

Originally Posted by Gman2004

Thanks Ronie. Since you posted do you care to share if you saw Mark wear headphones anytime during my tune?