binder

iTrader: (8)

There are quite a few people running 2.87 on stock block. In all honesty no FI is "safe" because it's impossible to know if you have a defect in a rod or piston and just adding power with a completely safe tune would stress it to the point of fatigue. It's impossible to predict that but it shows the healthy non-lemon engines work perfectly fine with a 2.87 pulley. I installed a vortech on my friend's 350z a year ago and a month ago I put a 2.87 pulley on it with dw600 injectors and dynoed it mid 400 hp with near 400 tq. That came out of an auto transmission as well.

I think you would be better off getting a stage 0 return system than new injectors. Not having a rising boost reference FPR is the problem with not getting the most out of those 600cc injectors. Scott's car was still only using a 6800 rpm redline but the duty cycle wasn't too high on his dw600 injectors. Even if it was 95% at redline that's no big deal since the amount of time spent up at that duty cycle is going to be milliseconds. As long as you don't go lean it isn't running completely out of injector. You will get a lot more out of them with the rising rate FPR from a return system.

as for the hp, do'nt bleed the pressure off. If your goal is higher hp down low then get the hp you want and if it gets higher near redline that's fine since torque is decreasing at redline there isn't as much stress on the engine so the higher hp isn't going to damage it at redline. Midrange peak torque is where you will see the rods snap.

So, in all honesty (barring there being a defect in one of the rods or pistons) i think 2.87 with a stage 0 return system will be all you need for your extra power.

4SHIZZIL

iTrader: (10)

^ Amen!

perfectly put and well thought out post.

why doesnt my350z have a thank button like G35driver!?!?

MODS, Staff... please suggest this addition!

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

wow massive thread, thanks so much for putting this together, this really is the bible.

I'm still looking to find pro/con for V2 vs. V3, can't decide which to get, the prices are the same.....so initially I figure V3 makes the most sense?

meanz

iTrader: (23)

Thanks for everyones input, i guess a rfs is in order then. If im making more than i feel comfortable i may pulley up to the 3.12. I will let you guys know the out come when they start on it.

binder

iTrader: (8)

pretty much the only difference is v2 uses the engine oil and the v3 uses self contained oiling system.

The plus of the v2: you only worry about changing your engine oil. downfall: you have to drill and tap your pan or add a spacer and also run a supply line from the engine.

V3: self contained oil so no lines to run and no oil pan to take or spacer to add. Downfall: the oil is expensive and you have to change it separately. not sure how hard it is to change but the drain is on the bottom so if you have to remove the unit to change it that would kind of be a PITA. someone else might chime in that has a v3.

If you ever think about going back to stock I would use the v3.

I like the "thanks" button idea as well. Thanks for the compliments. Sometimes i get on here and just babble. I'm glad it makes sense every now and then.

That sounds like a good plan. Many people have used the 2.87 so i don't think you will magically make unsafe power on it. therefore, you will probably be happy with the 2.87

- bigc -

iTrader: (18)

The V3 blower has an oil drain line that is long enough to make it to the bottom of the core support - easy enough to get to when its time to change the fluid.

binder

iTrader: (8)

problem solved then. Power wise they would produce the same gains so go with the easiest install and the easiest to remove if you ever went back to stock: v3

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the responses!! Saved me a little bit of searching here, the spoonfeeding is much appreciated.

If they're pretty much equal in design the V3 seems much better, no need for an oil cooler or oil feed lines sounds great to me.

As well, I'm sure it's of benefit to use oil spec'd for the supercharger, as it's operating conditions are much different than the engine.

My only concern is operating temp of the V3 by comparison to the V2,..... with an oil cooler equipped V2 you'd think compressor temps would be lower. What I hear is they don't heat up much anyways so it's not a big deal?

binder

iTrader: (8)

Oil in a supercharger isn't cooling the supercharger like the oil in a turbo cools the 1200* journals. With the temp gauge on my supercharger it would get in the 200* range. Turbos get in the 1000* range so the heat transfer to oil is much more significant in the turbo system therefore the oil heats up.

I never noticed high oil temps running 507hp on my vortech v2. The oil temps when up during racing but that's due to the higher hp and engine running harder not the oil circulating through the gearbox of the s/c. So you will have probably similar oil temps with the closed system since the v2 doesn't really put significant heat into the oil.

An oil cooler isn't a bad idea no matter what system you run if you are going to do hard driving. Higher hp will increase oil temps no matter what type of FI you have. Just a higher output NA engine will run higher temps due to combustion temps.

hope that helps!

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

Very helpful Jeff, thanks a lot dude.

So it really seems the V3 will be the least invasive with no real downfalls other than having to purchase and change the oil separately.

Excellent.

ConradoR

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the follow-ups to my question earlier about fluctuating oil pressure readings.
That has caused me to go on semi-freak out mode, so I want to add a temp. gauge to monitor the engine.

Currently running oil pressure/boost/af gauges. I am thinking I should go with the regular oil temp gauge. Is there another better indicator of engine problems? Water temp? Exhaust temp? To be honest I'm not sure what each temp would mean pertaining to the overall status of a VQ.

Thanks!

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

Oil temp is the most accurate reading of what the engines ACTUAL temperature is.
Would be nice to know the average temp on a stock block and the average on a standard Vortech pulley equipped block for reference though.

Once you have those base numbers you just want to ensure that it doesn't go much above 10-20* Fahrenheit beyond that one way or the other once warmed up.

Oil pressure is more vital, because the engine's warning doesn't come on until there's pretty much NO pressure at all, so a secondary sensor/gauge for this is very, very important.

The only other Gauge you might consider is Transmission temperature if you're Automatic.

binder

iTrader: (8)

impossible to tell. There are so many variables. Do you mean sitting in traffic idling? WOT for 1 drag pull? 45 minute autocross race of constant boost? outside temps are what?

Stock block on my car with and without the vortech the oil temp would be roughly 170-180* cruising on the highway. Heavy boosting on the dyno it would get up to about 210*. Sitting in traffic it would get up to about 210*

the vortech really doesn't add much heat into the system since the oil is only lubricating the bearings and a supercharge is only in the 200-300* range at most verses a turbo. The extra heat comes from the engine being higher hp. Even then without an oil cooler my car rarely went above 210* with just over 400hp stock block. It varies so much on situation and outside temps that you could never have an "average baseline" temp.

P&K350Z

iTrader: (2)

I must be doing something wrong. I seldom if ever dip below 200* and that is at idle in the shade. Normal for me (cruising on the highway, about 3000 rpm) is 220*. And that's with an oil cooler and an electric fan on the oil cooler to help things along.

I am picking up oil temp off a "T" on the sandwich plate right out of the engine (and before the cooler) so I know I am reading on the hot side but still, I can't get below 220*...

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

This is great info!

Oil temps are just like coolant temps. Oil just fluctuates a bit more.
Those numbers would be my guess, 200* is average for coolant temps at operating temperature on most vehicles, and oil temp usually runs within 10* of that.

The job of the coolant as we all know is to maintain around this temperature, so your oil should be doing the same thing, just fluctuating a bit more rapidly than coolant.

So you SHOULD have an average oil temp just like you have an average coolant temp. variables... no, unless you have improper or insufficient cooling somewhere.
Your base average temp should exist, of course it will change depending on application until the engine can compensate and bring it back to it's average, but you should still have a 'regulated' average to base off.

- bigc -

iTrader: (18)

^ coolant temperature will increase/decrease much quicker than engine oil.

4SHIZZIL

iTrader: (10)

Random but it i did this....

26 bucks for the OBDII blue tooth




4.99 for the DROID app, must have bluetooth on you phone or tablet

stock engine outputs FTMFW!




many modes these are the heads up display modes where your phone reflects on the windshield.

I usually mount my phone and run my gauges there but the small screen is hard at times, but you can add diff pages so you can run one gauge really big or two medium or 8 small.

I just bought a galax tablet that I am going to run. its the 7.1 display. Looking for a place to mount. my g35 oem nav housing is tab bit too small. So might mount just behind it.




very nice alternative, you can buy any gauge and hook into with a module. G35 has factory Vacuum...aka boost too!

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

Quicker, yup.

binder

iTrader: (8)

Well, at idle your temps will get really high due to lack of airflow. On the highway with airflow and low load your temps should be going down. If it's 50/60* outside (say coming home late at night from a cruise in the spring) my oil temps will drop down to 140-150* on the highway with my oil cooler. If i sit and let it idle they rocket back up. I have my temp sensor in the oil pan since that will be the best average since the majority of the oil will be mixing together there. Maybe that is your difference in temps seen but it still should be as you are driving with low load they will go down and as you sit and idle they will go up.

Yes, i agree when i look at MY gauges i have an average but you asked a baseline as in for all cars. Impossible to put a baseline for all cars since there are so many variables. For each car the person should be able to figure out their average quite easily and they will be somewhat in the ballpark of all cars. In the summer I would say generally around 180* give or take 20* and sitting while idling with no airflow 210* give or take.

TunerMax

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. But I'd like to speculate that the pan positioning of the sensor isn't the ideal.
The oil in the pan will be by far the coolest of all the oil in the engine. This is not an accurate depiction of what the actual components are seeing for oil temp. That reading will be much higher, and much closer in relation to the coolant temperature.

Likewise, putting a coolant temp sensor at the outlet of the Radiator, or in the Radiator, would create a similar effect. You're positioning your sensor in the place that cools the fluid the most.


Oh I guess I worded it wrong, I was hoping we could come up with an average for the Z/G, with light mods and standard Vortech. Somewhat of a baseline for OUR cars. Sorry about that.

But I guess you're right about variables, even in the same car. Some people have oil coolers, sensor positioning, etc. All change what we see.
But still, even from a couple comments here, it seems to be that we could say 190-210 seems to be the average? Which not surprisingly is the same for coolant.

Ideally, sensor positioning at the 'end' flow point from the Head, thus showing the highest temperature before cooling occurs.

IMO, oil temps should stay below 220 in any engine, anything over that starts breaking down additives and affecting the properties of the oil. This isn't based of research, just my opinion. I'm sure there's an actual 'number' that is closer to 250 on this for oil break down.