JETPILOT

iTrader: (51)

Well today Jeremy did a post start up inspection on my motor before dynoing it. He opened the oil fill cap and said my motor was smoking like a steam locomotive. The engine only has about 3000mi since the motor was installed and tuned by Sharif. Some odd things were found when installing my Greddy TT.

The first odd thing when my oil was drained there was only 1 quart in the motor. Since my last oil change to car only has about 400 mi on it. Obviously the oil was blowing by the piston rings and out the exhaust. This is a built motor with Arias ED piston rings. What the hell! I have had no audible detonation on my motor. I would have heard it like I heard it when it overboosted on the Turbonetics kit when I had it. The car never overboosted.

The second odd thing was that Jeremy had stated the tune was very very strange. Jeremy will tell you about the tune. He talked to Sam @ GTM, and they agree the tune was ultra conservative to the point of being "ODD" even for a stock motor. Sharif can explain the tune?

The tune corresponds to the power loss I have up top.





The third thing that was strange was that there was aluminum found in the oil pan. It could be from a piston. Sam will do the tear down and he will let us know exactly why the motor is dead and where the metal came from.

JET

redline350ZZ

iTrader: (1)

wow, don't know what to say man.

Oleg

iTrader: (1)

JET, just drop out of this hobby as soon as you can and buy a Z06. You have a horde of pissed off gremlins chasing you all over the place.

diwun67

iTrader: (13)

It appears that way...

Gumpdriver

iTrader: (5)

Bro sorry to here that everything in not going well. But a couple of questions I saw your block when it was at Forged, now the bare block is shipped and then sent back with pistons and rods installed. Now the block was assembled by GTM (Rods and pistons) and the rest of the motor was assebled by Forged?

booger

iTrader: (6)

Bad to hear your motor is toast . Who did the motor build ?

Never mind..? has been answered

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Who did your last oil change 400 miles ago? And did you check the oil? That is a serious Q, many guys build ands think "oh I can beat the p!ss out of the car and its fine" and run built motors LOW on oil. Also, if you had burned 4 qts/oil in 400 miles that would have been a known problem, something is a not right. Regardless, Im sorry to hear of your troubles, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

nlsqba

iTrader: (1)

sorry to hear this.

subscribing...

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Jet, I am very sorry to hear about this, but you bring up some points that need clarification.

First, when PF did the turbo install and noticed only 1 qt of engine oil drained, at that point..the engine was done. So after this, why was the turbo kit installed and the engine run again? Maybe I missed something in your timeline, but clearly, oil was burning off during that 3000 mile period...or whenever your last oil change occured.

Second, in regards to the tune: I tuned the TN kits way back when the TN kits were first introduced. First, we tuned them with the eManage, and then the UTEC's once they were launched. I have tuned at LEAST a couple dozen of them over the past two years, and about 7 on built engines that I can recall off hand. The timing profiles I run are definatly for a purpose. On stock engines, and stock boost, we can actually run MORE timing, becuase we arent bumping into the extreme backpressure issues that you see at 5500rpm on your dyno chart. We have tuned to 16psi with race fuel on Shervin's car, with the T66 upgrade, and the same curve exists, even with loads more timing involved. Look at every high boost TN dyno chart posted, and you will see the same drop-off in power, and the higher trq vs. hp situation.

The fact is, with the extreme backpressure these kits produce at high boost, you CANNOT safely run what would be considered "normal" timing. We run the maximum amount of timing possible, WITHOUT knock. Anymore timing on your engine, and knock counts were logged. Once Jeremy tunes a few high boost built TN kits, he will understand where I am coming from.

This kit, as I mentioned time and time again, is designed for mild boost, and the curve gets UGLY with high boost. Not by any function of tuning, but rather, due to backpressure. I posted your dyno chart a while back, and also sent it to TN, it help the address this issue for the high boost guys....so we aren't talking about anything new and revolutionary.

But the fact is, if an engine only had 1 qt of oil when it was drained...it had to go somewhere.

JETPILOT

iTrader: (51)

I changed the oil and drove 280 mi RT to the body shop, and about 100mi locally in the span of about 3 days so after the initial check after the oil change it would have been odd for even the most obsesive to have checked the oil after 3 days. There were no leaks either. The engine oil low pressure light never illuminated so I don't think it was an oil starvation issue.

I'm not out yet... That's how stupid I am! My Ex wife put a Hungarian curse on me. Yeah... its sucks to living with a curse.

JET

Mike Wazowski

iTrader: (113)

damn man, I dont know what to say

failsafe306

iTrader: (38)

So it was the motor smoking the whole time, not the turbo? Or both?

merlin3

iTrader: (4)

hmm this is why i normally check the oil on both z's before even taking it around the block.

r0mey

iTrader: (35)

im sorry to hear jet

Russ@Z1

iTrader: (65)

wow, hope you get the car back up and running soon.

JETPILOT

iTrader: (51)

I never noticed the engine smoking under normal driving conditions. It may have been smoking very little on the highway and over a long period of time a large quantity of oil was consumed. I still had the issue concerning the turbo. The way the oil was burning off after WOT runs is indicitive of the turbo seal that I have always had.

Jeremy did a compression test and the # 2 cylinder is 110 while the rest are 145. So after the teardown we will figure out what is up. Did the low oil quantity cause failure of the ring and piston or was the low oil quantity the result of it's failure. That we have to determine. Again the "low oil press" light never illuminated.

JET

merlin3

iTrader: (4)

ps I was looking forward to see what this monster was going to do at the track after seeing your previous thread. Good to hear your sticking with it. People like you amaze me, I'm saving up parts for my first build and if this happened to me I don't know what I'd do but you seem determined.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Jet-I Wanna clarify a few things. Was it before or after you took/picked up the car to/from Jeremy that you had changed your oil and noticed a 4 quart (I say 4 cuz I think you have a pan spacer and you had 1 left) loss in oil?

If it happened before you took it down to PF, why did Jeremy proceed to install the obviously hurt motor and proceed to tune it with the twins?

Also why bring up the fact that TN kits fall on their face up top in this thread and mention Sharif had tuned "weird? Do you or Jeremy believe running "conservative", safe timing (given the restrictionin the TN kit when maxed) caused the engine to burn 4 quarts? That curve looks like doodoo, and we all told you it would with that Stage 1 kit, still you chose to build with that kit. It doesnt matter if Sharif, Jeremy (look at his curve even with a different WG), Sam @ GTM or God himself had tuned it, the HP is done at 5500rpm's. I just dont see how the stage 1 TN maxed out is related to your issues.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

i am going on record to say that i asked jet if he drained the oil before he brought me the motor and also asked him if he had any problems. i told him that the oil level was very low and does he want me to pull the motor apart and check it out.

this was all brought up and in the open. he said that he feels the motor was ok oil wise and he felt like there would be no issues so we went ahead.


we did a compression test on the motor and we have 145 110 145 145 145 145. cylinder 2 is definitely the issue.


sorry sharif but your tune was rather to say the least "conservative" plus i have made more hp on AJs stock motor than you made on that built motor.


i really would like to know what honestly happened here....

JDMFairladyZ33

iTrader: (37)

Many people think once a motor is built they are invincible. This is an example stating otherwise. Reading this thread took me off guard a bit. JETPILOT I really hope you get everything worked out. At the least it appears you have good and knowledgeable people working with you. Hope to see you up and running again.