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Forced Induction Turbochargers and Superchargers..Got Boost?

Forged Performance: Engine inspection after 25K miles of abuse

Old Aug 14, 2007 | 07:36 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
The combustion event occurs inside the cast iron sleeve, and the next contact point is coolant, which surrounds the sleeve. So the heat does transfer directly from the sleeve to the coolant, and then to the aluminum block.
You're talking about wet sleeves, like Darton MID, not the stock VQ35 block, right?

Our OEM cylinder walls are made from aluminum, and have a thin cast iron liner that interfaces with the piston rings, but the rest is aluminum. Aluminum is a better conductor of heat, when compared to iron.
Yes, aluminum is a better heat conductor than ductile iron, but my point remains that the stock block is not just aluminum. The effect on heat transfer of the cast gray iron liner is not negligible, nor is the effect of the imperfect iron/aluminum dry fit.

I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
It's already been pieced out, and it's somewhat incomplete now.

My luck..
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by taurran
Your motor/bearing section looks much better than some others I've seen here lately with under 1k miles.








keep us updated with the new build S
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MacGuffin
You're talking about wet sleeves, like Darton MID, not the stock VQ35 block, right?


Yes, aluminum is a better heat conductor than ductile iron, but my point remains that the stock block is not just aluminum. The effect on heat transfer of the cast gray iron liner is not negligible, nor is the effect of the imperfect iron/aluminum dry fit.

I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
In this example, I am refering to the common Darton MID Sleeve. If you referring to Darton liners, than I have no information or claims on those.

We've had no cooling issues with Darton mid sleeves, when driving on the street, or drag raced, so yes, they cool better than a completely closed deck, like the ABS sleeve.

Those that have driven in my car at the track, know how hot the engine gets. I am not talking about a little hot...I am talking VERY hot. So it will be easy to determine if the open deck is cooling better.

I know that making temp comparos is loaded with heresay, and introduces far too many variables to make a conclusive asseessment 100% accurate. So a look for huge swings, and trends. The same type of practical testing with the shrouds we made, illustrated the same thing.

As I might have mentioned in the past, when I first starting tracking my car, I had no cooling issues at all. But as ambient temps increased, and I got a little faster on the track, the temp issue started creeping up on me.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MacGuffin
I know that "Darton sleeves don't cool as well as stock" is received wisdom on this forum; but not only have I not seen the reasoning or data to back up the claim, but other sites and sources of information present the claims that either there is no significant difference in cooling between wet and dry sleeves, or that wet sleeves actually cool better than dry. Those claims are also generally lacking supporting data, so I will be interested to see your track data. Do you actually have recorded engine temperature data for your present engine, or will the promised track data comparison be more along the lines of, "Well, the new engine does/doesn't seem to heat up as quickly as I remember the old one doing"?
You're a being a bit cynical there, eh? Sharif has posted increased average temps during his track days in other threads with his current/now "old" setup. I think running the same track in similar conditions with the new build and monitoring temps will be a reasonable comparison if the power level is the same (though not without other bias since turbo kits will be changing).
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:02 AM
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Very nice! That looks real good after that much mileage. Now its time to change the sig Sharif. Cant wait to see the new build
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rcdash
You're a being a bit cynical there, eh?
No, I'm not being the least bit cynical. I'm just asking whether the compared data will be actual measurements or just anecdotal. I haven't seen the previously posted temp data. Do you have a link?
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:23 AM
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Hey Sharif
Is the JWT 700bb kit a larger tubo kit than the normal JWT kit ? And is it capable of making the samw whp your Greddy Kit did ? 650wgp @19psi ?
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by booger
Is the JWT 700bb kit a larger tubo kit than the normal JWT kit ?
The standard JWT kit comes with the 530bb turbo's, the 700bb's are an upgraded version of the kit.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by booger
Hey Sharif
Is the JWT 700bb kit a larger tubo kit than the normal JWT kit ? And is it capable of making the samw whp your Greddy Kit did ? 650wgp @19psi ?
Yes, the 700bb turbo is much larger than than the smaller 550bb kit. Up to 15psi, they seem to make very comparable power to Greddy and APS TT's. We have not cranked them up past 15psi, so we'll report back once we've done that.

Last edited by Sharif@Forged; Aug 14, 2007 at 09:24 AM.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:44 AM
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Great info Sharif. Good to see the "conservative" approach (if that's what they call 500-600whp) works well and is reliable. Also glad to hear the L19s are in good form.

You definitely nailed my setup when I gave you my goals......no sleeves, stock heads and cams, and FCON VPro.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Ah, I forgot to mention that. The L19 studs looked absolutely spotless. Zero signs of contamination. The threads still had our moly lube on them.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Yes, the 700bb turbo is much larger than than the smaller 550bb kit. Up to 15psi, they seem to make very comparable power to Greddy and APS TT's. We have to crank them up past 15psi, so we'll report back once we've done that.

Please dont forget the JWT 850BB turbos "For track use only"
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by eagletanggreen
Please dont forget the JWT 850BB turbos "For track use only"
Luie,

Did you register for the Chin Motorsports at Barber?
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sandy@forged
Luie,

Did you register for the Chin Motorsports at Barber?
Yep and they charged my credit card already? I emailed them to see whats going on i received an e mail saying they are on"vacation" and will return on the 15th of this month. Everything should be ok, just a little mix up on their part, as they are looking over my track history / schools to move me to Advance solo since its my first track event with this club.

Luie
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eagletanggreen
Yep and they charged my credit card already? I emailed them to see whats going on i received an e mail saying they are on"vacation" and will return on the 15th of this month. Everything should be ok, just a little mix up on their part, as they are looking over my track history / schools to move me to Advance solo since its my first track event with this club.

Luie

Wow, it took me forever to figure out your Luie...... You met me at Forged.. Anyways I saw you took off the body kit..... Smart move.. You would have hated not being able to drive normally with that...
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jonb7007
Wow, it took me forever to figure out your Luie...... You met me at Forged.. Anyways I saw you took off the body kit..... Smart move.. You would have hated not being able to drive normally with that...
Hey whats up clean car, great to meet you too. always good to put a face to SN.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by eagletanggreen
Hey whats up clean car, great to meet you too. always good to put a face to SN.
Yep, no doubt!! They are 20's and I try to keep it clean.. lol.. jk Friday flashback..
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:45 AM
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Ha! right on.
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Old Aug 14, 2007 | 09:49 AM
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Has anyone tried to o-ring the block yet to get a better seal between the deck and the head gasket?
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