SGP Racing a Scammer?
12-21-2008, 11:09 AM
#723
Great post mrg1981. Seems like you have had the same experience as others. Possibly some of the same issues as well with your trans. I can only hope that these are isolated and non-related incidents. I guess we will see when Rude gets his parts installed.
I'm blown away at your ability to remain level headed after paying that much money, waiting that amount of time and still having the issues you are having. Good luck getting your gremlins sorted out.
I'm blown away at your ability to remain level headed after paying that much money, waiting that amount of time and still having the issues you are having. Good luck getting your gremlins sorted out.
It is easy to get caught up in problems, but I try to stay focused on the positive. For instance, even with 1/2 throttle, low boost (11psi), street tires, problems with red line and the transmission, 20" chrome wheels, and a heavy *** Z, I can run 12.5 in 114 degree weather without even trying. That's a heck of a lot faster than anything I've ever driven before. I see this throttle issue as an opportunity to learn the car before I have all 700 ponies at my disposal!
12-22-2008, 08:43 AM
#725
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i remember this. i am the one that put the motor together.
OK. It's late and I've just spent the last 2 hours reading through this and getting caught up on it. I do not currently have any parts at SGP. I do, however, have personal experience with them recently. I have a few issues with my car, which are either transmission related OR computer related. I do not know which one yet. Because Rude is at this stage in his build, I am posting this MOSTLY for his benefit, but others may find the information helpful, so I will post it here instead of PM.
Brief history: December 11th, 2007, I dropped my car at SRD in Tempe to build. The engine and trans were pulled and shipped to SGP in Houston around 12/22/07. I had the entire car built and modified and somewhere along the way switched to having Intense finish the project. This was not due to any problems with SRD, but simply because of their ability to work on the Pro-EFI and their experience with projects of this scale. I took the car on and off starting in August/September. I have the car, but it is going to UMS Tuning Monday morning.
Current Issues which MAY or MAY NOT be related to SGP products:
1. Car shuts down when you give it full throttle. This did not start happening until I had a TS reflash. i had them re-do the reflash thinking it was the culprit. Upon discussing it with Tadashi at TS, we feel that the MAF (necessary in 5AT Z's) is giving a reading over 4.75 volts and the stock ECU is shutting down. I have an HKS Fuel Cut Defencer on my desk right now which will be installed on Monday and will hopefully resolve the issue. Rude- Since you will be using the SGP 5AT and the Pro-EFI, I HIGHLY recommend that we touch base on this later this week. Send me a PM and we'll chat after I see how this works out. The Pro-EFI is one of the few systems that does not have a clamp to control/limit the voltage reading from the MAF. Once again, I do not know if this is the issue, but I currently believe that it is and truly hope so.
2. In gears 3 and 5 at lower RPMS, if I give the car a bit of throttle, the transmission slips and blows through that gear until redline or shift. I don't know if this is mechanical or electrical. I am really hoping that the HKS FCD resolves this issue. I don't want to waste time diagnosing each issue until I try the step in #1 above, so all I know is what it is doing and hope this is resolved along with #1 above.
3. Horrible shift delays, but not all the time. This has been present since the car first was built. It will drive fine a lot of the time, but a lot of the time, the shifting is delayed. This was discussed with Mark and he had not heard of it before. I am still hoping that the solution to #1 above is also the solution to this. Remember, the 5AT in this car is controlled by a separate computer, which gets some commands and some information from the stock computer. that's why I think this voltage issue COULD possibly resolve all of the issues at once. #2 and #3 are not all the time. They seem to happen once I have "gotten on it" a bit, and therefore I believe it to be related to the voltage theory which occurs during boost.
OK, so there is what is currently happening. Now for some advice based on my own personal experiences with SGP. This may or may not help, but I hope it can help someone.
1. DO NOT let SGP use their own shipping company. They actually use Estes, which is a good shipper, but 2 times they ordered the pickup incorrectly. My longblock and transmission were in 1 custom made crate. It was about 6' long and weighed probably 900+ lbs. Even though it was discussed at great length with Thomas, he did not order delivery with a lift gate service and SGP does NOT have a forklift. This led to delays in both the delivery of my parts to SGP and their return to me. Additionally, they NEVER provided me with tracking numbers (to my recollection), even though they were promised numerous times. If you order the shipping, you'll get the tracking information and no longer need to rely on the non-existent communication with SGP for updates on the shipping. That piece of mind is worth a $1MM!
2. Mark took care of me even when everything was said and done. It sucked trying to deal with them and get information/updates. They did, however, send me a few pictures of my parts at various stages of the project. They screwed up a few things (didn't send me my fly wheel and bolts at first and then Thomas only sent the bolts overnight and forgot the fly wheel
), but eventually I got everything. My TC was too loose for my power levels, so Mark sent me another one at no cost to me. He was very stand up about this and didn't hassle me for deposits, or anything like that.
3. My long block and transmission were there from the end of December until April 4th. I had them add the ARP L19's in January and I ordered a lot more than just my build services from them. My total invoice JUST at SGP was over $21,500! They did forget to send my Greddy TT kit at one point and then there was 1 wrong part in it, but they got the correct part from Greddy for me. There were huge delays with my exhaust system (AAM), but they were apparently delays at AAM, not SGP (arrived 5/28/08). My point is that it was extremely difficult to reach them and to get things done right, but they did get it done right in the end. I am very happy with my car in spite of the issues listed in this post. Basically, I can't run full throttle or high boost at the moment, which I want to do at the track on slicks, but it drives well on the street right now and I am assuming that my issues are NOT related to their products at this time.
I don't have any inside information, but from my experience SGP and Mark have great products, just shitty communication. I had to get VERY lucky to reach anyone at all during the 6 months of working with them. I was impatient and angry at a few points, but I kept a level head and tried very hard to find a solution to each new challenge as it was presented. It paid off in the end, IMO. About 1 or 2 months ago, I sent Mark and email with just a quick update on my car and the issues with the shifting. He replied very promptly, even though I didn't ask for anything from him. I think he has gotten himself further behind and deeper in the trenches lately and it is clearly making his shitty communication even worse.
I would recommend that if your invoice is paid in full and you have been waiting less than 3 months for your service/parts, that you hang in there and buckle up for a bumpy road. IMO, it will be worth getting through this with some hard work and patience, rather than try to get money/parts back through legal/alternative actions.
If you have waiting longer than 3-5 months, maybe a different approach is more cost effective/efficient at this point, but I'd consider all alternatives available.
Sorry for the super long post, but I hope it helps someone out.
Canadian- your problem and mine sound the same on the shift delays. Send me a PM if you don't mind sharing what is going on with yours in detail. maybe we can help each other figure out the problem.
Work Done/Parts Ordered through SGP:
Upgraded Longblock #1
ARP L19's added to huge list of services for the upgrade
3 year extended warranty
Full Race 5AT and Pro-Torque Converter
Tranny cooler; Fuel return system; RC 750 CC injectors; Greddy TT; FMIC
$21,551.80 including return shipping only
Shipped to SGP: 12/22/07 (I think)
Received longblock and transmission: 4/4/08
Received missing trans parts: about 1 1/2 weeks later
Received AAM exhaust: 5/28/08
Swapped TC at no cost: 8/28/08
Brief history: December 11th, 2007, I dropped my car at SRD in Tempe to build. The engine and trans were pulled and shipped to SGP in Houston around 12/22/07. I had the entire car built and modified and somewhere along the way switched to having Intense finish the project. This was not due to any problems with SRD, but simply because of their ability to work on the Pro-EFI and their experience with projects of this scale. I took the car on and off starting in August/September. I have the car, but it is going to UMS Tuning Monday morning.
Current Issues which MAY or MAY NOT be related to SGP products:
1. Car shuts down when you give it full throttle. This did not start happening until I had a TS reflash. i had them re-do the reflash thinking it was the culprit. Upon discussing it with Tadashi at TS, we feel that the MAF (necessary in 5AT Z's) is giving a reading over 4.75 volts and the stock ECU is shutting down. I have an HKS Fuel Cut Defencer on my desk right now which will be installed on Monday and will hopefully resolve the issue. Rude- Since you will be using the SGP 5AT and the Pro-EFI, I HIGHLY recommend that we touch base on this later this week. Send me a PM and we'll chat after I see how this works out. The Pro-EFI is one of the few systems that does not have a clamp to control/limit the voltage reading from the MAF. Once again, I do not know if this is the issue, but I currently believe that it is and truly hope so.
2. In gears 3 and 5 at lower RPMS, if I give the car a bit of throttle, the transmission slips and blows through that gear until redline or shift. I don't know if this is mechanical or electrical. I am really hoping that the HKS FCD resolves this issue. I don't want to waste time diagnosing each issue until I try the step in #1 above, so all I know is what it is doing and hope this is resolved along with #1 above.
3. Horrible shift delays, but not all the time. This has been present since the car first was built. It will drive fine a lot of the time, but a lot of the time, the shifting is delayed. This was discussed with Mark and he had not heard of it before. I am still hoping that the solution to #1 above is also the solution to this. Remember, the 5AT in this car is controlled by a separate computer, which gets some commands and some information from the stock computer. that's why I think this voltage issue COULD possibly resolve all of the issues at once. #2 and #3 are not all the time. They seem to happen once I have "gotten on it" a bit, and therefore I believe it to be related to the voltage theory which occurs during boost.
OK, so there is what is currently happening. Now for some advice based on my own personal experiences with SGP. This may or may not help, but I hope it can help someone.
1. DO NOT let SGP use their own shipping company. They actually use Estes, which is a good shipper, but 2 times they ordered the pickup incorrectly. My longblock and transmission were in 1 custom made crate. It was about 6' long and weighed probably 900+ lbs. Even though it was discussed at great length with Thomas, he did not order delivery with a lift gate service and SGP does NOT have a forklift. This led to delays in both the delivery of my parts to SGP and their return to me. Additionally, they NEVER provided me with tracking numbers (to my recollection), even though they were promised numerous times. If you order the shipping, you'll get the tracking information and no longer need to rely on the non-existent communication with SGP for updates on the shipping. That piece of mind is worth a $1MM!
2. Mark took care of me even when everything was said and done. It sucked trying to deal with them and get information/updates. They did, however, send me a few pictures of my parts at various stages of the project. They screwed up a few things (didn't send me my fly wheel and bolts at first and then Thomas only sent the bolts overnight and forgot the fly wheel
), but eventually I got everything. My TC was too loose for my power levels, so Mark sent me another one at no cost to me. He was very stand up about this and didn't hassle me for deposits, or anything like that.3. My long block and transmission were there from the end of December until April 4th. I had them add the ARP L19's in January and I ordered a lot more than just my build services from them. My total invoice JUST at SGP was over $21,500! They did forget to send my Greddy TT kit at one point and then there was 1 wrong part in it, but they got the correct part from Greddy for me. There were huge delays with my exhaust system (AAM), but they were apparently delays at AAM, not SGP (arrived 5/28/08). My point is that it was extremely difficult to reach them and to get things done right, but they did get it done right in the end. I am very happy with my car in spite of the issues listed in this post. Basically, I can't run full throttle or high boost at the moment, which I want to do at the track on slicks, but it drives well on the street right now and I am assuming that my issues are NOT related to their products at this time.
I don't have any inside information, but from my experience SGP and Mark have great products, just shitty communication. I had to get VERY lucky to reach anyone at all during the 6 months of working with them. I was impatient and angry at a few points, but I kept a level head and tried very hard to find a solution to each new challenge as it was presented. It paid off in the end, IMO. About 1 or 2 months ago, I sent Mark and email with just a quick update on my car and the issues with the shifting. He replied very promptly, even though I didn't ask for anything from him. I think he has gotten himself further behind and deeper in the trenches lately and it is clearly making his shitty communication even worse.
I would recommend that if your invoice is paid in full and you have been waiting less than 3 months for your service/parts, that you hang in there and buckle up for a bumpy road. IMO, it will be worth getting through this with some hard work and patience, rather than try to get money/parts back through legal/alternative actions.
If you have waiting longer than 3-5 months, maybe a different approach is more cost effective/efficient at this point, but I'd consider all alternatives available.
Sorry for the super long post, but I hope it helps someone out.
Canadian- your problem and mine sound the same on the shift delays. Send me a PM if you don't mind sharing what is going on with yours in detail. maybe we can help each other figure out the problem.
Work Done/Parts Ordered through SGP:
Upgraded Longblock #1
ARP L19's added to huge list of services for the upgrade
3 year extended warranty
Full Race 5AT and Pro-Torque Converter
Tranny cooler; Fuel return system; RC 750 CC injectors; Greddy TT; FMIC
$21,551.80 including return shipping only
Shipped to SGP: 12/22/07 (I think)
Received longblock and transmission: 4/4/08
Received missing trans parts: about 1 1/2 weeks later
Received AAM exhaust: 5/28/08
Swapped TC at no cost: 8/28/08
12-22-2008, 11:14 AM
#726
Can you shed any light on the shift delay issues??? It seems to be a common problem amongst those who have gotten SGP's valvebody upgrade and/or SGP's fully built trans. I'm noticing that iamdigital, canadian, and mrg1981 seem to be having the same problem. I think coachk also had issues with his SGP valvebody upgrade. I'm concerned that I'm gonna have the same problems once I get my trans back and installed.
Do you have any possible explanation(s) for the problem? Are these few trans the exception, or is this a more widespread issue? Are you aware of other customers with SGP built trans having the same problems?
Do you have any possible explanation(s) for the problem? Are these few trans the exception, or is this a more widespread issue? Are you aware of other customers with SGP built trans having the same problems?
12-22-2008, 11:23 AM
#727
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+1 correct...Marks explanation to me was "no one else has had that problem, so I don't know what to tell you, but thanks for the 900 bucks" .... I made the 900 bucks part up 
12-22-2008, 11:38 AM
#729
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The only thing I got from SGP was the VB and I have the EdgeRacing TC...still have the same setup.I'll be upgrading the clutch packs etc in the very near future, just not going to use SGP or GTM.
12-22-2008, 12:22 PM
#730
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Eric (and peanut gallery),
We spoke with Estes Express this morning. While the tracking number doesn't show this, our representative advised us that we should expect to see your trans tomorrow.
www.estes-express.com
165-0631066
Darren
We spoke with Estes Express this morning. While the tracking number doesn't show this, our representative advised us that we should expect to see your trans tomorrow.
www.estes-express.com
165-0631066
Darren
12-22-2008, 12:24 PM
#731
Eric (and peanut gallery),
We spoke with Estes Express this morning. While the tracking number doesn't show this, our representative advised us that we should expect to see your trans tomorrow.
www.estes-express.com
165-0631066
Darren
We spoke with Estes Express this morning. While the tracking number doesn't show this, our representative advised us that we should expect to see your trans tomorrow.
www.estes-express.com
165-0631066
Darren
Thanks for the update D!
12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
#732
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Can you shed any light on the shift delay issues??? It seems to be a common problem amongst those who have gotten SGP's valvebody upgrade and/or SGP's fully built trans. I'm noticing that iamdigital, canadian, and mrg1981 seem to be having the same problem. I think coachk also had issues with his SGP valvebody upgrade. I'm concerned that I'm gonna have the same problems once I get my trans back and installed.
Do you have any possible explanation(s) for the problem? Are these few trans the exception, or is this a more widespread issue? Are you aware of other customers with SGP built trans having the same problems?
Do you have any possible explanation(s) for the problem? Are these few trans the exception, or is this a more widespread issue? Are you aware of other customers with SGP built trans having the same problems?
12-22-2008, 01:29 PM
#733
could be a lot of different things. low on fluid. too much pressure. too little pressure. me personally, while i was there did three or four vb's but never had the delay problem with any of them. after every install mark always got into the comp. ecu through the cipher program and did something. not sure what he did cause he would never explain to me what it was that he was doing.
... And Mark never gets on here to explain anything, so I guess we'll never know.
12-22-2008, 01:33 PM
#734
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The logic built into the VB is offloaded into the ecu. The solenoids that turn on and off by the ecu, control the shift patterns instead of the spring loaded valves in the VB.
