My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
03-23-2009, 09:07 AM
#741
I'm still waiting for So. Fla. Machine and Crank to finish my block, crank and balancing. Even though the economy pretty much sucks right now, those guys are busy as h*ll. They are the same guys that just built JETPILOT's latest short block, which he picked up a couple of weeks ago.
03-27-2009, 12:11 PM
#743
The Failure
I got a few texts from Frank last night that the motor was out of the car now and the oil was drained and confirmed epic failure. The oil was a murky grey and had bits of copper (bearing) in it as well as a small piece of powdercoat tape and an unknown piece of plastic/rubber. Say hello to yet another sleepless night for me as I think of all the possible reasons for the failure. I confirm with Frank that I will be down in the morning so I can be there for the bulk of the teardown.
When I get to Hill's Garage, Frank and Suzanne greet me as always and Frank tells me he has located the source of the failure. The o-rings on both cam covers have failed causing the loss of oil pressure that in turn caused the rod bearing on cylinder #2 to fail from oil starvation. I remember being there when the cam covers went on and that they were very tight since the powdercoater was careful to not get coating in the bolt holes, but did not plug the holes for the guide pins. The cam covers were tapped into place with a mallet since the fit was tight, but what we failed to realize was that they had not seated 100% centered and flush and were rubbing slightly on the inside of the camshaft gears.
You can see in the pics how fubar the o-rings are on both sides and the damage the failure has caused inside the camshaft gears:
It takes a minute for all the info to sink in and then I come to grips with the obvious:
THE REBUILD IS ON MY DIME!!
This is the unfortunate side of trying new things like powdercoating the majority of the exterior motor parts, you have the opportunity for epic failure. Having said that, I am completely relieved that the cause of the failure was definative and it was nobody's fault, just an unfortunate set of circumstances that lead to the end result.
The damage could have been much worse had the motor failed on the ride to F:T and had Dave not recognized the rod knock immediately and shut the car off, it is possible that the damage to the motor could have been catastrophic. I find myself being thankful again that I am working with such a great group of people who are helping me through this difficult time.
When I get to Hill's Garage, Frank and Suzanne greet me as always and Frank tells me he has located the source of the failure. The o-rings on both cam covers have failed causing the loss of oil pressure that in turn caused the rod bearing on cylinder #2 to fail from oil starvation. I remember being there when the cam covers went on and that they were very tight since the powdercoater was careful to not get coating in the bolt holes, but did not plug the holes for the guide pins. The cam covers were tapped into place with a mallet since the fit was tight, but what we failed to realize was that they had not seated 100% centered and flush and were rubbing slightly on the inside of the camshaft gears.
You can see in the pics how fubar the o-rings are on both sides and the damage the failure has caused inside the camshaft gears:
It takes a minute for all the info to sink in and then I come to grips with the obvious:
THE REBUILD IS ON MY DIME!!
This is the unfortunate side of trying new things like powdercoating the majority of the exterior motor parts, you have the opportunity for epic failure. Having said that, I am completely relieved that the cause of the failure was definative and it was nobody's fault, just an unfortunate set of circumstances that lead to the end result.
The damage could have been much worse had the motor failed on the ride to F:T and had Dave not recognized the rod knock immediately and shut the car off, it is possible that the damage to the motor could have been catastrophic. I find myself being thankful again that I am working with such a great group of people who are helping me through this difficult time.
Last edited by Cass007; 03-27-2009 at 11:23 PM.
03-27-2009, 12:22 PM
#744
The oil pan look like I have been prospecting for gold.... bits of bearing everywhere. If you ever wondered why the oil pickup has a screen on it, now you see why:
During the teardown Frank takes off the camshaft gear and the keyway comes out of the camshaft, he then notices that the camshaft is cracked around where the keyway sits, the other exhaust camshaft appears to be slightly cracked as well - so long mystery cams, time to shop for something new
During the teardown Frank takes off the camshaft gear and the keyway comes out of the camshaft, he then notices that the camshaft is cracked around where the keyway sits, the other exhaust camshaft appears to be slightly cracked as well - so long mystery cams, time to shop for something new
03-27-2009, 12:33 PM
#745
The view from underneath reveals the damaged rod, it was loose to the touch, and you can see how it is discolored. It may have to be replaced and I can only hope that Tomei sells singles. You can also see the remains of the bearing on the crank. It is unknown if it will need to be replaced until we can have it spec'ed out by a motor shop.
03-27-2009, 12:56 PM
#748
A bit of deja vu when looking at the crank and bearings:
Frank still has to complete the teardown to confirm if there is any damage to the rest of the components, so I should have a complete list of parts sometime next week. Since it looks like I will be basically starting from scratch I will consider if any upgrades will take place during the rebuild, such as twin fuel pumps, painting the engine bay and picking the best cams for my application.
I now know all too well how some members seem to have a love/hate relationship with their cars
. The worst part of this whole situation is that I was only one day away from boosting when the failure occurred.
In the greater context, my son turns 6 tomorrow and its going to be a great weekend for me to see him enjoying himself without a care in the world, all he knows about the Z is that the blue car is loud and goes fast.
Frank still has to complete the teardown to confirm if there is any damage to the rest of the components, so I should have a complete list of parts sometime next week. Since it looks like I will be basically starting from scratch I will consider if any upgrades will take place during the rebuild, such as twin fuel pumps, painting the engine bay and picking the best cams for my application.
I now know all too well how some members seem to have a love/hate relationship with their cars
. The worst part of this whole situation is that I was only one day away from boosting when the failure occurred.In the greater context, my son turns 6 tomorrow and its going to be a great weekend for me to see him enjoying himself without a care in the world, all he knows about the Z is that the blue car is loud and goes fast.
03-27-2009, 01:25 PM
#749
So the powdercoating on the guide pins resulted in error in the cam cover seal? Who installed the cam covers? I think if there was any issue during install, tight fit, or whatever, it is legitimate to assign some culpability to the installer unless they warned of a possible failure due to the powdercoating and it was ignored or overridden.
Hope you are able to get the motor fixed and back together soon.
03-27-2009, 02:15 PM
#753
The powder coating was done by my guy under my direction, who would think something as simple as the guide pins being tight would be capable of causing a complete failure ?
Raj - Frank feels bad that he did not see this as an issue during the initial install and is going to help me out with pricing on the rebuild. The decision to powdercoat things was solely mine and I was aware that there would be risks involved, but I wanted to try and build a car that was every bit as show as it was go and try some things that I had not seen done by our community before. I could have just played stupid and tried to push this all off on Frank, but that wouldn't be right and I'm just not wired that way, plus its not worth the bad karma IMO.
?Raj - Frank feels bad that he did not see this as an issue during the initial install and is going to help me out with pricing on the rebuild. The decision to powdercoat things was solely mine and I was aware that there would be risks involved, but I wanted to try and build a car that was every bit as show as it was go and try some things that I had not seen done by our community before. I could have just played stupid and tried to push this all off on Frank, but that wouldn't be right and I'm just not wired that way, plus its not worth the bad karma IMO.
03-27-2009, 03:16 PM
#754
wow, this is a case of all show NO go.
-- maybe that was too soon!
good luck with the rebuild. I guess i'd be worried about what else could go wrong with the immense amount of powdercoating you had done.
you going to dump that turbo kit as well and go with a GTM or greddy 20g?
-- maybe that was too soon!
good luck with the rebuild. I guess i'd be worried about what else could go wrong with the immense amount of powdercoating you had done.
you going to dump that turbo kit as well and go with a GTM or greddy 20g?
03-27-2009, 04:19 PM
#756
I would also be concerned about contaminants getting in your turbos. That's another major consideration. Which Majorly Sucks!!! Brand new turbos and back to the shop for inspection to see if they ate some dirty oil. Better be safe then rebuild in a month when the turbos fail.
Been there..done that. Good luck on the rebound Cass.
Been there..done that. Good luck on the rebound Cass.
03-27-2009, 09:36 PM
#758
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The Good, the Bad, & in Progress - Part 2
So it only effected the motor's bottom end? Presumably, Hills Garage will check the oil pump for metal shavings.
I guess the culpit cover now is in the Cass garage "Hall of Shame" suitable for wall mounting!!!
I have a few engine parts in my former garage "Hall of Shame"; only cost me an entire aluminum engine out of my boat. Yep; the block was toast.
I guess the culpit cover now is in the Cass garage "Hall of Shame" suitable for wall mounting!!!
I have a few engine parts in my former garage "Hall of Shame"; only cost me an entire aluminum engine out of my boat. Yep; the block was toast.
03-29-2009, 01:59 PM
#760
Traded some texts with Frank today and the final teardown results are in... the motor is a complete loss 
.
Final results are that the entire motor has sufferred from massive oil starvation that has damaged the pistons, cylinder walls, bearings, cams and heads. I am especially upset about the heads since so much time, effort and money was spent on them. The damage to the turbos is unknown right now, but the way things are going I will assume they are damaged as well. Pics to follow when Frank gets them to me.
Frank possibly feels worse about this than I do and has offerred to help in every way possible. I am waiting for him to gather some more info for me and then make a final decision on what I want to do.
Options:
1. Start over from scratch and re-build everything
2. Use the turbos on my stock block and be happy with 400whp
3. Sell the turbos and all supporting F/I mods and take the car back to NA and try and enjoy it that way
4. Sell all my mods, recoup some of my money, trade this money pit in and get something practical like an Audi A6 or Range Rover Sport
It seems like a black cloud is following me around lately and I've had just about enough. When I tried to post this the first time, a freak hailstorm started, the power went out and now my office PC won't restart. I'm seriously wondering if this just isn't meant to happen for me.
.Final results are that the entire motor has sufferred from massive oil starvation that has damaged the pistons, cylinder walls, bearings, cams and heads. I am especially upset about the heads since so much time, effort and money was spent on them. The damage to the turbos is unknown right now, but the way things are going I will assume they are damaged as well. Pics to follow when Frank gets them to me.
Frank possibly feels worse about this than I do and has offerred to help in every way possible. I am waiting for him to gather some more info for me and then make a final decision on what I want to do.
Options:
1. Start over from scratch and re-build everything
2. Use the turbos on my stock block and be happy with 400whp
3. Sell the turbos and all supporting F/I mods and take the car back to NA and try and enjoy it that way
4. Sell all my mods, recoup some of my money, trade this money pit in and get something practical like an Audi A6 or Range Rover Sport
It seems like a black cloud is following me around lately and I've had just about enough. When I tried to post this the first time, a freak hailstorm started, the power went out and now my office PC won't restart. I'm seriously wondering if this just isn't meant to happen for me.