My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
06-04-2009, 05:23 AM
#1021
Take off the piping to the throttle body and see if you can feel air flow as you rev the motor. You can also check throttle plate movement at the same time. It's not that hard to find out where the airflow stops. I would check the intercooler inlet/outlet for additional obstructions (more rags?). Either piping is obstructed, uncoupled, or some part of the turbo is bad. Hopefully 15 mins of detective work and it'll be fixed... After all, I doubt a "coin sized" piece of rag was left in the piping. It was likely larger, has been shredded, and is in your intake system somewhere. Hopefully pieces didn't make it into the motor. You NEED to check all the piping though at least all the way to the intake valves. Cass, I think you know exactly who could have left a rag in the intake piping. It's just a stupid mistake, but when mistakes are made, people have to own up and take responsibility. This one could have serious consequences - don't try to overlook it.
Last edited by rcdash; 06-04-2009 at 05:29 AM.
06-04-2009, 05:31 AM
#1022
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Take off the piping to the throttle body and see if you can feel air flow as you rev the motor. You can also check throttle plate movement at the same time. It's not that hard to find out where the airflow stops. I would check the intercooler inlet/outlet for additional obstructions (more rags?). Either piping is obstructed, uncoupled, or some part of the turbo is bad. Hopefully 15 mins of detective work and it'll be fixed... After all, I doubt a "coin sized" piece of rag was left in the piping. It was likely larger, has been shredded, and is in your intake system somewhere. Hopefully pieces didn't make it into the motor. You NEED to check all the piping though at least all the way to the intake valves. Cass, I think you know exactly who could have left a rag in the intake piping. It's just a stupid mistake, but when mistakes are made, people have to own up and take responsibility. This one could have serious consequences - don't try to overlook it.
+1, there is no use ever for a coin sized rag. This more than likely started as a full size rag.
06-04-2009, 05:35 AM
#1023
That said, I don't think a shredded rag would damage a motor if the pieces were small enough (small enough to get through IC). So, hopefully, you just need to clean out the IC with compressed air in reverse or water and watch the pieces fall out.
I'll tell you what Cass. Your thread makes me appreciate and understand all the time my shop took here and there to get things done. I kept thinking to myself, "are they really even working on it?". There are probably tons of little glitches (hopefully not rags!) that cause problems that shops have to troubleshoot that they lose money on all the time. It's a tough business but it's also hard from the customer side to be patient when you can't see all the little things being worked on. And then we expect the car to be perfect and gripe about something minor. Definitely a tough business. At the same time, I'm kind of glad I didn't know day to day setbacks because I would've been a nervous wreck at the end of it. Just to be clear, no disrespect was intended towards Frank or Hill's Garage in the above post.
I'll tell you what Cass. Your thread makes me appreciate and understand all the time my shop took here and there to get things done. I kept thinking to myself, "are they really even working on it?". There are probably tons of little glitches (hopefully not rags!) that cause problems that shops have to troubleshoot that they lose money on all the time. It's a tough business but it's also hard from the customer side to be patient when you can't see all the little things being worked on. And then we expect the car to be perfect and gripe about something minor. Definitely a tough business. At the same time, I'm kind of glad I didn't know day to day setbacks because I would've been a nervous wreck at the end of it. Just to be clear, no disrespect was intended towards Frank or Hill's Garage in the above post.
Last edited by rcdash; 06-04-2009 at 05:43 AM.
06-04-2009, 05:45 AM
#1024
Take off the piping to the throttle body and see if you can feel air flow as you rev the motor. You can also check throttle plate movement at the same time. It's not that hard to find out where the airflow stops. I would check the intercooler inlet/outlet for additional obstructions (more rags?). Either piping is obstructed, uncoupled, or some part of the turbo is bad. Hopefully 15 mins of detective work and it'll be fixed... After all, I doubt a "coin sized" piece of rag was left in the piping. It was likely larger, has been shredded, and is in your intake system somewhere. Hopefully pieces didn't make it into the motor. You NEED to check all the piping though at least all the way to the intake valves. Cass, I think you know exactly who could have left a rag in the intake piping. It's just a stupid mistake, but when mistakes are made, people have to own up and take responsibility. This one could have serious consequences - don't try to overlook it.
06-04-2009, 06:45 AM
#1025
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+1000000 find the rest of that rag before it gets sucked into the motor and you have some major problems!!!! I really can't believe this, you have been through so much I was hoping to see some numbers soon... Hang in their man hopefully this is just a minor setback.
06-05-2009, 05:58 AM
#1031
As it stands now, I will be leaving on vacation for a few weeks mid month, so basically I can forget about having the car for the entire month of June. This may be for the best, since it may allow time to get everything worked out while I am away. The only issue I have that is pressing is that I can't sleep. I wake up at points throughout the night and have random thoughts of what the issue could be and how to troubleshoot or eliminate things. I'm just wired that way and do the same thing with my business, but I have full control over what happens with that... I have control issues
Good luck.
06-05-2009, 10:25 AM
#1032
Spoke with Dave, Frank and Blouch. Dave has ruled out that the turbos are locked up and Blouch has said that there was no damage done that would cause a rebuild on the turbos - WHEW!!
Dave says the turbines spin freely and wastegates are functioning. He has ruled out the boost controller and ViPEC as well. He will pull the intakes from the turbos and check to see if we get boost. The guys at Blouch spent 20 min on the phone with me giving me a primer on how to find issues, but it was everything Dave and Frank have already considered. According to Blouch, if the turbines spin freely, there is almost no way to not make boost without easily being able to see or hear a problem.
One thing I told Blouch was that I noticed when the car was on the dyno last Sunday, when Dave did a pull, the hose connecting the intercooler to the charge pipe would suck in a bit. Blouch says that this is the opposite of what should be happening, the hose should flex out from the boost being created. Seems like we may be pulling pipes off soon to look for obstructions if the intakes aren't the issue.
It would make more sense though if the car made some boost, instead of none, since the APS intercooler has entry points on both sides and exits out the top. At least one side should be making boost
. Dave is back at it again today sometime, I hope we get lucky and find the issue.
Dave says the turbines spin freely and wastegates are functioning. He has ruled out the boost controller and ViPEC as well. He will pull the intakes from the turbos and check to see if we get boost. The guys at Blouch spent 20 min on the phone with me giving me a primer on how to find issues, but it was everything Dave and Frank have already considered. According to Blouch, if the turbines spin freely, there is almost no way to not make boost without easily being able to see or hear a problem.
One thing I told Blouch was that I noticed when the car was on the dyno last Sunday, when Dave did a pull, the hose connecting the intercooler to the charge pipe would suck in a bit. Blouch says that this is the opposite of what should be happening, the hose should flex out from the boost being created. Seems like we may be pulling pipes off soon to look for obstructions if the intakes aren't the issue.
It would make more sense though if the car made some boost, instead of none, since the APS intercooler has entry points on both sides and exits out the top. At least one side should be making boost
. Dave is back at it again today sometime, I hope we get lucky and find the issue.
Last edited by Cass007; 06-05-2009 at 11:28 AM.
06-05-2009, 03:45 PM
#1034
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ok, so this may sound ridiculous, it does to me...but could they somehow have hooked the turbos up backwards? to where the intake is plumbed to the intercooler and the boost side is hooked to the air filter? probably impossible...
but you should be able to take the piping off AT the turbos...and see which way the air is flowing...ensuring it's blowing the right way if it's blowing at all. This shouldn't be hard to pinpoint at all...i mean, it should be very straight forward to figure out where the boost is being blocked....just disconnect at the turbo and start working your way to the plenum....at some point the air will stop blowing?!
but you should be able to take the piping off AT the turbos...and see which way the air is flowing...ensuring it's blowing the right way if it's blowing at all. This shouldn't be hard to pinpoint at all...i mean, it should be very straight forward to figure out where the boost is being blocked....just disconnect at the turbo and start working your way to the plenum....at some point the air will stop blowing?!
06-05-2009, 03:57 PM
#1035
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no way the turbos are routed wrong, its a bolt on kit thats been done 100 times. i would ditch the evc, vipec- run wastegate springs and utec(dave knows that alot better). and work from there. if its not fixed from there its mechanical. honestly i would be getting tired of this right now. but hell i ran into issues to with my install(but it was overboosting)
good luck but at this point i would hope there in the shop non stop getting this fixed since at this point its getting rediculous
good luck but at this point i would hope there in the shop non stop getting this fixed since at this point its getting rediculous
06-05-2009, 07:27 PM
#1036
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I'm still wondering if its the wastegates vaccuum/boost references going to the wrong ports....very common mistake on all external wastegate setups.
tom
tom
no way the turbos are routed wrong, its a bolt on kit thats been done 100 times. i would ditch the evc, vipec- run wastegate springs and utec(dave knows that alot better). and work from there. if its not fixed from there its mechanical. honestly i would be getting tired of this right now. but hell i ran into issues to with my install(but it was overboosting)
good luck but at this point i would hope there in the shop non stop getting this fixed since at this point its getting rediculous
good luck but at this point i would hope there in the shop non stop getting this fixed since at this point its getting rediculous
06-05-2009, 07:42 PM
#1037
Spoke with Dave, Frank and Blouch. Dave has ruled out that the turbos are locked up and Blouch has said that there was no damage done that would cause a rebuild on the turbos - WHEW!!
Dave says the turbines spin freely and wastegates are functioning. He has ruled out the boost controller and ViPEC as well. He will pull the intakes from the turbos and check to see if we get boost. The guys at Blouch spent 20 min on the phone with me giving me a primer on how to find issues, but it was everything Dave and Frank have already considered. According to Blouch, if the turbines spin freely, there is almost no way to not make boost without easily being able to see or hear a problem.
One thing I told Blouch was that I noticed when the car was on the dyno last Sunday, when Dave did a pull, the hose connecting the intercooler to the charge pipe would suck in a bit. Blouch says that this is the opposite of what should be happening, the hose should flex out from the boost being created. Seems like we may be pulling pipes off soon to look for obstructions if the intakes aren't the issue.
It would make more sense though if the car made some boost, instead of none, since the APS intercooler has entry points on both sides and exits out the top. At least one side should be making boost. Dave is back at it again today sometime, I hope we get lucky and find the issue.
Dave says the turbines spin freely and wastegates are functioning. He has ruled out the boost controller and ViPEC as well. He will pull the intakes from the turbos and check to see if we get boost. The guys at Blouch spent 20 min on the phone with me giving me a primer on how to find issues, but it was everything Dave and Frank have already considered. According to Blouch, if the turbines spin freely, there is almost no way to not make boost without easily being able to see or hear a problem.
One thing I told Blouch was that I noticed when the car was on the dyno last Sunday, when Dave did a pull, the hose connecting the intercooler to the charge pipe would suck in a bit. Blouch says that this is the opposite of what should be happening, the hose should flex out from the boost being created. Seems like we may be pulling pipes off soon to look for obstructions if the intakes aren't the issue.
It would make more sense though if the car made some boost, instead of none, since the APS intercooler has entry points on both sides and exits out the top. At least one side should be making boost
. Dave is back at it again today sometime, I hope we get lucky and find the issue.I wonder if it's obstructing the intercooler as Raj speculated.
06-05-2009, 11:32 PM
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if this isn't fixed soon I would invest in a leaf blower or some turbonators. might have better gains
sorry cass. i'm a little drunk right now. sure it will be worth it in the long run.
sorry cass. i'm a little drunk right now. sure it will be worth it in the long run.
Last edited by terps; 06-05-2009 at 11:48 PM.
06-06-2009, 04:56 AM
#1040
Traded some texts with Dave last night. He will be scoping all of the pipes to confirm no obtructions. I think I'm going to make the 2.5 hour trip down to F:T today, not that I can fix anything, but again.... I have control issues.
I just need to see things with my own eyes and try to make sense of things in my head. It certainly is frustrating spending the money I have and having so many negative results.
In a perfect world, I would be able to spend a few hours with Dave going over all the connections and scoping the pipes. Also, being able to pull the intakes and verify that the turbos are spinning freely.
If I ditch the ViPEC it will be for a Haltech. I will never again use a Utec. I did ask if we could unhook the ViPEC and run the car on the re-flash, but Dave says that the car itself is running perfectly on the ViPEC (it runs great as NA) and there is just no boost.
No way for the turbos to be hooked up backwards - physically impossible. I will ask about the boost control Tom, but I have no idea how to hook it up.
Rude - the evidence I have seen, namely the hose to the charge pipe sucking in, leads me to believe I may have an obstruction, but it would have to be on both sides, which would be odd. I personally am still holding out hope that removing the intakes from the turbos themselves solves my issue, but I live in my own sunny reality most of the time
I just need to see things with my own eyes and try to make sense of things in my head. It certainly is frustrating spending the money I have and having so many negative results.
In a perfect world, I would be able to spend a few hours with Dave going over all the connections and scoping the pipes. Also, being able to pull the intakes and verify that the turbos are spinning freely.
If I ditch the ViPEC it will be for a Haltech. I will never again use a Utec. I did ask if we could unhook the ViPEC and run the car on the re-flash, but Dave says that the car itself is running perfectly on the ViPEC (it runs great as NA) and there is just no boost.
No way for the turbos to be hooked up backwards - physically impossible. I will ask about the boost control Tom, but I have no idea how to hook it up.
Rude - the evidence I have seen, namely the hose to the charge pipe sucking in, leads me to believe I may have an obstruction, but it would have to be on both sides, which would be odd. I personally am still holding out hope that removing the intakes from the turbos themselves solves my issue, but I live in my own sunny reality most of the time