My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
06-25-2009, 08:18 AM
#1341
hey man please dont let this thread turn you away from using either one of these shops. they are both excellent shops period. i promise and this is a very sad out come right now but in the end will show you just how stand up these shops really are and how they stand behind their work.. period
First of all, the fiasco with the rag was an inexcusable and amateurish clusterf*ck that would deter me from going to either shop. Frank carelessly left it in there and then Dave kept trying to boost the car for days with such an obstruction, instead of thoroughly checking all the charge piping on/after day 1 of the "no boost" problem.
Secondly, I think it should be pointed out that neither shop has extensive experience with 600+whp builds. Every shop needs to start somewhere and some guys need to step up to be a guinea pig or beta tester for a shop. But I personally would want to take my VQ to a shop where 600-1,000+whp horsepower builds are the norm and not the exception. There are only 3 shops on this forum that can claim that, and it's no coincidence that all 3 of those shops were big names in the Supra platform prior to devoting their attention to the VQ platform. Bottom line: If a shop considers 600-700whp on a VQ as a "high horsepower build", you should walk out and look elsewhere.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; 06-25-2009 at 08:29 AM.
06-25-2009, 08:38 AM
#1342
Not trying to **** you or others off... But this thread needs a reality check and I apologize if it may rub some folks the wrong way.
First of all, the fiasco with the rag was an inexcusable and amateurish clusterf*ck that would deter me from going to either shop. Frank carelessly left it in there and then Dave kept trying to boost the car for days with such an obstruction, instead of thoroughly checking all the charge piping on/after day 1 of the "no boost" problem.
Secondly, I think it should be pointed out that neither shop has extensive experience with 600+whp builds. Every shop needs to start somewhere and some guys need to step up to be a guinea pig or beta tester for a shop. But I personally would want to take my VQ to a shop where 600-1,000+whp horsepower builds are the norm and not the exception. There are only 3 shops on this forum that can claim that, and it's no coincidence that all 3 of those shops were big names in the Supra platform prior to devoting their attention to the VQ platform. Bottom line: If a shop considers 600-700whp on a VQ as a "high horsepower build", you should walk out and look elsewhere.
First of all, the fiasco with the rag was an inexcusable and amateurish clusterf*ck that would deter me from going to either shop. Frank carelessly left it in there and then Dave kept trying to boost the car for days with such an obstruction, instead of thoroughly checking all the charge piping on/after day 1 of the "no boost" problem.
Secondly, I think it should be pointed out that neither shop has extensive experience with 600+whp builds. Every shop needs to start somewhere and some guys need to step up to be a guinea pig or beta tester for a shop. But I personally would want to take my VQ to a shop where 600-1,000+whp horsepower builds are the norm and not the exception. There are only 3 shops on this forum that can claim that, and it's no coincidence that all 3 of those shops were big names in the Supra platform prior to devoting their attention to the VQ platform. Bottom line: If a shop considers 600-700whp on a VQ as a "high horsepower build", you should walk out and look elsewhere.
The problem I do see is the communication issue. You have 1 shop that did the motor build, another shop that did the installation/assembling, then yet another shop that did the tuning. And who knows some other shop might be involved in part of the motor building process. There is way too much room for error due to miscommunication. And when bad thing like this happens, obviously no one wants to take the blame. And it's not really that the shops are being irresponsible; it's that who'd take the blame if they're not 100% sure it really is their fault? Especially when we're talking about thousands of dollar? It's human nature not to take a blame until we're found guilty or at least knowing that we're guilty.
However if you have one single shop that did all 3 steps, who is to be blamed when chit happens?
Chris I hate to see you in this situation and would love to see your car on the road.... All I can say is I wish you the best!!!!
PS: I also want to point out this question... So lets say a customer bought a faulty part not knowing it's faulty. Then it blows up and damages extra parts during installation/tuning or whatever. Is it the installer/tuner's fault? The customer's fault? Or the part vendor's fault?
Last edited by bb1314; 06-25-2009 at 08:41 AM.
06-25-2009, 08:51 AM
#1343
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i guess you didn't pray enough... calm(check) safe (check) sober( 
)
hangover + wake n bake and some ramen n00dles afterwards FTMFW!!!
Full day of catch up today at work and hopefully making a bit of progress on how to handle the motor inspection. I have some difficult decisions to make in the near future, one of them being to make a complete list of my parts at their used value and see if it is equal to or greater than what I owe on the car. That way I can see if just parting out and walking away from this platform is even an option.[/quote]
Hang in there, the community has spoken and we are behind you, and the fact that you already gave them 2 redo-tries to do it right(more than anybody else would anyways) means that these shops(regardless of where the actual fault is) are responsible for KILLING your enthusiasm in the 350z.
I would hope that, they are smart enough to know that they have to go above and beyond to make things right. While i have suggested to Cass that this threads are "a meet grinder" and "suggestions" on a forum by people that have not looked at your car at all should not be taken as entire fact.
Two things is very clear, Cass has gone above what anybody else would have done to make things over fair to the shops and has himself taken more blame for all this than he deserves, and also this time Cass had NO part in the build, so 100% no chance that its his fault.
I hope they man up to the reputation many here have defended from this shops and that Cass has supported till now and make things right for Cass.
i hear you man, and i understand why you wouldn't wanna do any finger pointing... we community here is doing that... weather we are fully correct or not on how we handle things, some facts remains... you are not at fault, your goals were not outrageous, you are not a failure, repeated/similar mistakes took place....if we want to look for truth fail/win.... MrS and RA are kinds of utter fail on my350z.
i hope you stay a lil patient because this is a matter that right now..all you should have to look at and worry is just more down time, but not as "I have to pay more again". Its not your responsibility, given the circumstances.
I completely agree, but one suggestion on your 3rd party review is that all shops involved at this point should just agree to cover all the expenses necessary to get Cass on the road RIGHT NOW. It would disappoint me and i would find unacceptable/disappointing/MRs-level-fail that they will wait and dance around till a 3rd party inspection is done to find out engine failed. TO me this is the best way for the shops involved... it would show that they stand behind their work no matter what, and if they are found not to be at fault, they can sort things out between each other(the shops involved) after wards, but not at the expense of the customer ANYMORE. They already did that twice.
i dunno about the 1st statement but,it doesn't mean anything if the shop isn't willing to stand behind their work. At this point the 25+ motors of no fail shows that maybe human error has catch up to frank.... the rag bad issue, you cant defend around that. WE can keep speculating until it gets sorted, but Cass Z needs to get fixed 1st.
it does look like a similar error, but again i am willing to give away from that and stop the speculation as soon as the shops involved come here and put it in public that they will take care of things no questions/money asked....just as Cass has keep things honest on this thread since the beginning.
+2 lol at vetter comment
sure but that excuse works out 1 time.... Cass eat it and had a rebuild... ...they had 2 tries at a rebuild already.
Also keep in mind that this time Cass tried to stay away from the building process and it was all left up to the installer/builder/tuner. Other than the EMS i think all the parts Cass picked were proven.....and should handle more than Cass non-outrageous goals(no pun fyi)...
) hangover + wake n bake and some ramen n00dles afterwards FTMFW!!!Hang in there, the community has spoken and we are behind you, and the fact that you already gave them 2 redo-tries to do it right(more than anybody else would anyways) means that these shops(regardless of where the actual fault is) are responsible for KILLING your enthusiasm in the 350z.
I would hope that, they are smart enough to know that they have to go above and beyond to make things right. While i have suggested to Cass that this threads are "a meet grinder" and "suggestions" on a forum by people that have not looked at your car at all should not be taken as entire fact.
Two things is very clear, Cass has gone above what anybody else would have done to make things over fair to the shops and has himself taken more blame for all this than he deserves, and also this time Cass had NO part in the build, so 100% no chance that its his fault.
I hope they man up to the reputation many here have defended from this shops and that Cass has supported till now and make things right for Cass.
After re-reading Dave's post from yesterday it appears that the car exhibited the exact same symptoms prior to failure as the previous motor - low oil pressure. It was just being run harder when this happened, so the failure happened more quickly. I feel sick to my stomach when I think about everything I did to get this car to where I wanted and the money thats been spent.
At this point I will consider the car lost for the season and will proceed very slowly and cautiously down whichever path I choose. The only thing I can say for sure is that if I choose to try again, there will be only one shop involved from start to finish, and there will have to be guarantees on cost, performance and timetable.....period.
i hope you stay a lil patient because this is a matter that right now..all you should have to look at and worry is just more down time, but not as "I have to pay more again". Its not your responsibility, given the circumstances.Gentlemen, it's unlikely that the rag found in the intake caused the motor to fail. However the fact that a rag of considerable size was left in the piping begs the question of what else was overlooked or not considered during assembly of the motor and install of the turbo kit. I have never built a motor, but my understanding is that it requires the utmost attention to detail and a meticulously organized mind to do it right, every time, without fail.
EDIT: The best advice is to probably have an independent 3rd party trusted by all do the diagnosis at the very least to confirm that this is not a tuning related issue and find the source of the failure. All parties should agree to respect the conclusions of that facility.
EDIT: The best advice is to probably have an independent 3rd party trusted by all do the diagnosis at the very least to confirm that this is not a tuning related issue and find the source of the failure. All parties should agree to respect the conclusions of that facility.
frank has built over 25 VQ35 motors and easily 25+ more and has never had one fail because of his lack of attention to detail.. chris's motor was checked and double checked. once by justice racing and then again by frank himself.. but we wont know the real failure until the motor is broken down...everything else is speculation.
wow, i missed where you used your own longblock. Thats really crazy then. 2 similar fails on 2 different motors. thats a systematic error from the builder.
I hope everything isn't wiped out.
I guess at this point I could never love my G/Z anymore either.
LOL about the vette owners. So true
I hope everything isn't wiped out.
I guess at this point I could never love my G/Z anymore either.
LOL about the vette owners. So true
+2 lol at vetter comment
PS: I also want to point out this question... So lets say a customer bought a faulty part not knowing it's faulty. Then it blows up and damages extra parts during installation/tuning or whatever. Is it the installer/tuner's fault? The customer's fault? Or the part vendor's fault?
Also keep in mind that this time Cass tried to stay away from the building process and it was all left up to the installer/builder/tuner. Other than the EMS i think all the parts Cass picked were proven.....and should handle more than Cass non-outrageous goals(no pun fyi)...
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 06-25-2009 at 08:58 AM.
06-25-2009, 08:52 AM
#1344
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Not trying to **** you or others off... But this thread needs a reality check and I apologize if it may rub some folks the wrong way.
First of all, the fiasco with the rag was an inexcusable and amateurish clusterf*ck that would deter me from going to either shop. Frank carelessly left it in there and then Dave kept trying to boost the car for days with such an obstruction, instead of thoroughly checking all the charge piping on/after day 1 of the "no boost" problem.
Secondly, I think it should be pointed out that neither shop has extensive experience with 600+whp builds. Every shop needs to start somewhere and some guys need to step up to be a guinea pig or beta tester for a shop. But I personally would want to take my VQ to a shop where 600-1,000+whp horsepower builds are the norm and not the exception. There are only 3 shops on this forum that can claim that, and it's no coincidence that all 3 of those shops were big names in the Supra platform prior to devoting their attention to the VQ platform. Bottom line: If a shop considers 600-700whp on a VQ as a "high horsepower build", you should walk out and look elsewhere.
First of all, the fiasco with the rag was an inexcusable and amateurish clusterf*ck that would deter me from going to either shop. Frank carelessly left it in there and then Dave kept trying to boost the car for days with such an obstruction, instead of thoroughly checking all the charge piping on/after day 1 of the "no boost" problem.
Secondly, I think it should be pointed out that neither shop has extensive experience with 600+whp builds. Every shop needs to start somewhere and some guys need to step up to be a guinea pig or beta tester for a shop. But I personally would want to take my VQ to a shop where 600-1,000+whp horsepower builds are the norm and not the exception. There are only 3 shops on this forum that can claim that, and it's no coincidence that all 3 of those shops were big names in the Supra platform prior to devoting their attention to the VQ platform. Bottom line: If a shop considers 600-700whp on a VQ as a "high horsepower build", you should walk out and look elsewhere.
Please keep in mind that the day the car didn't make boost was the day it was delivered.... and Frank was present. Quick checks were made that day but body panels weren't pulled off to access and remove piping to check it.
The car was NOT ran for days when it wasn't making boost like you say. Unfortunately due to other appoinments and obligations to his customers who were already scheduled for work at F:T the car had to sit a little bit before he could really get into it and trouble shoot it thoroughly.
And just because it's a "newer shop" doesn't mean the owners and guys working on the cars aren't familiar with high HP builds.
06-25-2009, 09:02 AM
#1345
Dave kept trying to boost the car for days with such an obstruction, instead of thoroughly checking all the charge piping on/after day 1 of the "no boost" problem.
The problem I do see is the communication issue. You have 1 shop that did the motor build, another shop that did the installation/assembling, then yet another shop that did the tuning. And who knows some other shop might be involved in part of the motor building process. There is way too much room for error due to miscommunication. And when bad thing like this happens, obviously no one wants to take the blame. And it's not really that the shops are being irresponsible; it's that who'd take the blame if they're not 100% sure it really is their fault? Especially when we're talking about thousands of dollar? It's human nature not to take a blame until we're found guilty or at least knowing that we're guilty.
After the initial failure, Frank offered free labor for the motor re-build and install, I was paying $7K+ in parts for the re-build and I still trust Frank and took him up on his offer. I split the cost with him to have Justice Racing spec out the shortblock components, but opted against the $950ish price to have them assemble the motor as well. Call me cheap, but Frank has built many VQ's and I saw no reason to doubt his ability. The motor sounded very smooth compared to the initial motor and all was thought to be well. All shops involved thought my car would be a true monster when the fuel mods were finished.
Short of me spending several thousand dollars more, there was no way for this build to be accomplished by a single shop. I am aware that Dave offers a warranty program with Justice as his builder, but honestly I was trying to minimize some of the re-build cost and never in a million years thought I could have the same failure twice before I ever got the car back.
Frank has offered to accept responsibility if the failure is shown to be his fault. I still have to discuss the same with Dave, although I know he does not feel the failure is tuning related. We will all have to agree who/where the car will be torn down. I'm not sure if Justice Racing is an option though, since they spec'd the shortblock and do buisiness with both of the shops involved
.
06-25-2009, 09:02 AM
#1346
sure but that excuse works out 1 time.... Cass eat it and had a rebuild... ...they had 2 tries at a rebuild already.
Also keep in mind that this time Cass tried to stay away from the building process and it was all left up to the installer/builder/tuner. Other than the EMS i think all the parts Cass picked were proven.....and should handle more than Cass non-outrageous goals(no pun fyi)...
Also keep in mind that this time Cass tried to stay away from the building process and it was all left up to the installer/builder/tuner. Other than the EMS i think all the parts Cass picked were proven.....and should handle more than Cass non-outrageous goals(no pun fyi)...
Last edited by bb1314; 06-25-2009 at 09:04 AM.
06-25-2009, 09:03 AM
#1347
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^^
its possible that we could be unfair with dave, but its besides the point.... the shops involved had 2 attempts already...and fail on similar issue.... they need to figure out a way to cover the costs to get cass back on the road RIGHT NOW...they can have 3rd party inspection and sort things out of whos fault it is and who should ultimately fork most of the bill, but thats a deal between each other and one that Cass should not be affected by at this point any more.
edit:
This was my whole point...i hope this means that you are all covered of expenses to get it fixed...dave needs to be more sympatetic on all this...no many are willing to spend 40k on a build and at the same time try and show off a product you are coming up with liek vipec...i would HOPE he hooks you up entirely, it would be a nice gesture on his part.... and while Hills garage is bound to suffer form this... i think the fact that Frank has taken responsability shows a lot of his character......Actually justice might be best option since it should be imparcial to both shops.
its possible that we could be unfair with dave, but its besides the point.... the shops involved had 2 attempts already...and fail on similar issue.... they need to figure out a way to cover the costs to get cass back on the road RIGHT NOW...they can have 3rd party inspection and sort things out of whos fault it is and who should ultimately fork most of the bill, but thats a deal between each other and one that Cass should not be affected by at this point any more.
edit:
Originally Posted by Cass
Frank has offered to accept responsibility if the failure is shown to be his fault. I still have to discuss the same with Dave, although I know he does not feel the failure is tuning related. We will all have to agree who/where the car will be torn down. I'm not sure if Justice Racing is an option though, since they spec'd the shortblock and do buisiness with both of the shops involved
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 06-25-2009 at 09:12 AM.
Maybe my memory fails me, but I got the impression from your past posts that Dave made more than one attempt on more than one occasion to boost your car before the rag was found.
06-25-2009, 01:36 PM
#1349
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I agree with what you guys are saying.....But I am quite sure that Chris next post will be like this......
And then my response....
Anything less...
...
Originally Posted by Cass
...just got off the phone with _____....They are going to go ahead and fix my car and get it back on the road now. They will figure out later who is at fault. They all agree that I should not have to cover any of this, because, I did not even get a chance to drive the car. No way can I be blamed for any of this damage. The bad news is....It will be another month or two....but the good thing is....it will be up and ready for the next ZdayZ..
And then my response....
Originally Posted by XKR & RU
Thats good to hear Chris.....I knew those guys would step up and take care of you....hang in there
Anything less...
...
Last edited by XKR; 06-25-2009 at 04:58 PM.
06-25-2009, 03:30 PM
#1352
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Oh boy, sorry to hear about all this... I remember how excited you were just a few months back at the last FT meet... now to only hear about this crap! Quite a shocker because all 3 shops are excellent. Now lets let logic speak for itself:
Rule out Function:TUNED as the shop who made the mistake. Dave only did the tune and touched nothing else, how could he be at fault? Regardless if he tuned 100whp or 1000whp motors, he's tuned over 100 boosted VQs and non of them have blown... especially after a simple drive down the street on a freakin' built block! What are the chances of a brand new built motor blowing in under a few miles from the tuning? Yeeeaaah.... Riiiiiight.....
Rule out Function:TUNED as the shop who made the mistake. Dave only did the tune and touched nothing else, how could he be at fault? Regardless if he tuned 100whp or 1000whp motors, he's tuned over 100 boosted VQs and non of them have blown... especially after a simple drive down the street on a freakin' built block! What are the chances of a brand new built motor blowing in under a few miles from the tuning? Yeeeaaah.... Riiiiiight.....
06-25-2009, 04:39 PM
#1353
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The only thing left to do is for the engine tuner and the engine builder to work together to put Cass back on the road within 45 days with no money out of pocket for Cass.
The fact that we are talking about "inspections" to "figure out what happened" is already a complete failure to customer service,... Cass = Customer.
Anything less than 45 days is a failure and a sign neither shop accepts responsiblity for a customer that has been more than willing to protect, serve,.. and WRITE CHECKS.
45 days is completely in reason.
Just my 0.02.
The fact that we are talking about "inspections" to "figure out what happened" is already a complete failure to customer service,... Cass = Customer.
Anything less than 45 days is a failure and a sign neither shop accepts responsiblity for a customer that has been more than willing to protect, serve,.. and WRITE CHECKS.
45 days is completely in reason.
Just my 0.02.
06-25-2009, 05:01 PM
#1354
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The only thing left to do is for the engine tuner and the engine builder to work together to put Cass back on the road within 45 days with no money out of pocket for Cass.
The fact that we are talking about "inspections" to "figure out what happened" is already a complete failure to customer service,... Cass = Customer.
Anything less than 45 days is a failure and a sign neither shop accepts responsiblity for a customer that has been more than willing to protect, serve,.. and WRITE CHECKS.
45 days is completely in reason.
Just my 0.02.
The fact that we are talking about "inspections" to "figure out what happened" is already a complete failure to customer service,... Cass = Customer.
Anything less than 45 days is a failure and a sign neither shop accepts responsiblity for a customer that has been more than willing to protect, serve,.. and WRITE CHECKS.
45 days is completely in reason.
Just my 0.02.
45 days is not too much to ask for.....and "Inspections" is what happens after Cass gets his car back....I agree...
Also....still waiting for Chris to fill in the name of the person below....
Originally Posted by Cass
...just got off the phone with _____....They are going to go ahead and fix my car and get it back on the road now. They will figure out later who is at fault. They all agree that I should not have to cover any of this, because, I did not even get a chance to drive the car. No way can I be blamed for any of this damage. The bad news is....It will be another month or two....but the good thing is....it will be up and ready for the next ZdayZ..
06-25-2009, 05:17 PM
#1355
Hold on, let me get this straight. A thread is open in the Mid A with info on a Mid A shop having a motor blow up under the shops watch, and somehow, this thread stays open in order for everyone to see the out come in how Dave or the other tuner is going to fix the problem?
Must be leap year or all the mods are on vacation. Mid A tends to have any threads about shop issues deleted after about 12 hours.
You see, if the thread goes away, the problem never happened in the first place!
Dave's a good guy, I have zero doubt in my mind that one way or another he will make sure you're taken care of.
Cass, it sucks to get soooo close to something you want sooooo bad only to lose it. this will just make the final product that much sweeter!
Must be leap year or all the mods are on vacation. Mid A tends to have any threads about shop issues deleted after about 12 hours.
You see, if the thread goes away, the problem never happened in the first place!
Dave's a good guy, I have zero doubt in my mind that one way or another he will make sure you're taken care of.
Cass, it sucks to get soooo close to something you want sooooo bad only to lose it. this will just make the final product that much sweeter!
06-25-2009, 05:38 PM
#1356
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Hold on, let me get this straight. A thread is open in the Mid A with info on a Mid A shop having a motor blow up under the shops watch, and somehow, this thread stays open in order for everyone to see the out come in how Dave or the other tuner is going to fix the problem?
Must be leap year or all the mods are on vacation. Mid A tends to have any threads about shop issues deleted after about 12 hours.
You see, if the thread goes away, the problem never happened in the first place!
Dave's a good guy, I have zero doubt in my mind that one way or another he will make sure you're taken care of.
Cass, it sucks to get soooo close to something you want sooooo bad only to lose it. this will just make the final product that much sweeter!
Must be leap year or all the mods are on vacation. Mid A tends to have any threads about shop issues deleted after about 12 hours.
You see, if the thread goes away, the problem never happened in the first place!
Dave's a good guy, I have zero doubt in my mind that one way or another he will make sure you're taken care of.
Cass, it sucks to get soooo close to something you want sooooo bad only to lose it. this will just make the final product that much sweeter!
It wont close until after Chris fills in the name below..
Originally Posted by Cass
...just got off the phone with _____....They are going to go ahead and fix my car and get it back on the road now. They will figure out later who is at fault. They all agree that I should not have to cover any of this, because, I did not even get a chance to drive the car. No way can I be blamed for any of this damage. The bad news is....It will be another month or two....but the good thing is....it will be up and ready for the next ZdayZ..
06-25-2009, 06:10 PM
#1358
My apologies to Dave for the delay in posting what he spoke to me about earlier. Its my wedding aniversary today and I needed to show my wife that she is still more important than the toys.
Dave has offered me his own built block he was putting in his track car. This is a very generous offer.
I am very conflicted as to what to do and how to proceed from here. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to get something for nothing or hurt the reputations of any of the shops I have been working with. To the people that feel I am being unreasonable, ask yourself how you would feel after spending $20K on motors, being without your car for 7 months and having two built motors fail before you ever drive the car under boost once?
I am just trying to enjoy my Z like so many others on this forum.
Dave has offered me his own built block he was putting in his track car. This is a very generous offer.
I am very conflicted as to what to do and how to proceed from here. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to get something for nothing or hurt the reputations of any of the shops I have been working with. To the people that feel I am being unreasonable, ask yourself how you would feel after spending $20K on motors, being without your car for 7 months and having two built motors fail before you ever drive the car under boost once?
I am just trying to enjoy my Z like so many others on this forum.
06-25-2009, 06:18 PM
#1360
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My apologies to Dave for the delay in posting what he spoke to me about earlier. Its my wedding aniversary today and I needed to show my wife that she is still more important than the toys.
Dave has offered me his own built block he was putting in his track car. This is a very generous offer.
I am very conflicted as to what to do and how to proceed from here. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to get something for nothing or hurt the reputations of any of the shops I have been working with. To the people that feel I am being unreasonable, ask yourself how you would feel after spending $20K on motors, being without your car for 7 months and having two built motors fail before you ever drive the car under boost once?
I am just trying to enjoy my Z like so many others on this forum.
Dave has offered me his own built block he was putting in his track car. This is a very generous offer.
I am very conflicted as to what to do and how to proceed from here. I want to make it clear that I am not trying to get something for nothing or hurt the reputations of any of the shops I have been working with. To the people that feel I am being unreasonable, ask yourself how you would feel after spending $20K on motors, being without your car for 7 months and having two built motors fail before you ever drive the car under boost once?
I am just trying to enjoy my Z like so many others on this forum.
Are you kidding me?? Who could think you are being unreasonable??? Dont even pay attention to that......
Wow so I guess Dave's name goes in that spot !!!
Whats is in Dave's motor.....can you get the same numbers you were getting on your motor?? If so...why not??? What Pistons and Rods were used??