My Build: The Good, The Bad & The Progress
Dave, I think this thread has been quite an emotional roller coaster for Chris as well as the community. While everything was examined critically at some point or another, my overall impression from this thread alone is that you came through with flying colors.
It is understandable that you need time with the Vipec on Chris's car to perfect implementation of a piece of technology this advanced, but I can understand Chris's need to have this car in his possession after the long hiatus from it. Perhaps the R&D can all be done on the shop Z and then Chris can bring it in to be updated/refreshed afterwards? I know as updates came out for the Haltech to fix little glitches or activate new features, for the most part, we could all just do it remotely (via e-mail or download)?
It is understandable that you need time with the Vipec on Chris's car to perfect implementation of a piece of technology this advanced, but I can understand Chris's need to have this car in his possession after the long hiatus from it. Perhaps the R&D can all be done on the shop Z and then Chris can bring it in to be updated/refreshed afterwards? I know as updates came out for the Haltech to fix little glitches or activate new features, for the most part, we could all just do it remotely (via e-mail or download)?
I just don't feel that its fair for me not to get a chance to get the car running 100% with a reasonable amount of time to do it. Cass was WELL aware of exactly what the Vipec meant both pros (amazing control and stability) as well as the cons (time to get perfect). After the amount of time energy and effort I've spent it unbelievable that anyone would even suggest him take the car else where. Maybe I'm being unreasonable but after all this I feel that I deserve the glory for getting this car running 100% to all of our expectations and not have it diluted by yet ANOTHER shop being involved. It may seem small to most but this is a point of pride for me.
This is between you and Chris - not so much about what's right or wrong per se. Good luck.
just curious as to who suggested the Vipec to begin with?
I would be extremely disappointed with stock block power if my tuner suggested a EMS but didnt really know how to tune it. I dont know if that's the situation here. One would hope that Cass went into that situation knowing that he was going to be a guinea pig though
Even still, the overall timeline of the car was pretty crazy and one could easily imagine the "where does this all end and i have a completed car" thoughts thru the OP's head.
At some point the bleeding has to stop and going with a well established EMS (regardless of the tuner) is one quick way to end it.
i feel for both sides of the coin. good luck!
I would be extremely disappointed with stock block power if my tuner suggested a EMS but didnt really know how to tune it. I dont know if that's the situation here. One would hope that Cass went into that situation knowing that he was going to be a guinea pig though
Even still, the overall timeline of the car was pretty crazy and one could easily imagine the "where does this all end and i have a completed car" thoughts thru the OP's head.
At some point the bleeding has to stop and going with a well established EMS (regardless of the tuner) is one quick way to end it.
i feel for both sides of the coin. good luck!
Last edited by str8dum1; Dec 17, 2009 at 10:27 AM.
Jebus.... I actually go to work for a bit and everything goes crazy 
. First off, I was not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I was mearly being completely honest as to the state of the car right now. I say the car is running at stock block power because when jtgli and I lined up I was unable to reel him in without turning the meth on (he is running a Greddy 18G kit on a stock block cheating to ~10lbs).
I was/am aware of the hiccups and setbacks that car be expected with being one of the first to run something new. I believe I have been patient as well. As I have stated previously, the tune was PERFECT when I got the car from Dave the first time. The only minor issues were the idle and that I felt that the car should be making more top end power than it was.
To address one final thing, if I have an issue with the turbos after only 1000 miles I will probably pay to have them melted down into something useful, like a doorstop, and seriously consider parting out and moving to another platform.
. First off, I was not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, I was mearly being completely honest as to the state of the car right now. I say the car is running at stock block power because when jtgli and I lined up I was unable to reel him in without turning the meth on (he is running a Greddy 18G kit on a stock block cheating to ~10lbs).I was/am aware of the hiccups and setbacks that car be expected with being one of the first to run something new. I believe I have been patient as well. As I have stated previously, the tune was PERFECT when I got the car from Dave the first time. The only minor issues were the idle and that I felt that the car should be making more top end power than it was.
To address one final thing, if I have an issue with the turbos after only 1000 miles I will probably pay to have them melted down into something useful, like a doorstop, and seriously consider parting out and moving to another platform.
I've stayed pretty quiet through this situation but now I feel that I'm not getting a fair shake from CASS. This thread has brought my abilities into question, especially regarding the motor. Now that the motor is running and not having problems I get no time with the car to sort it out where as other shops had months with it to do the mechanical work. So the second most complex part in the car after the engine and the part that requires the most customization gets the LEAST TIME? 
I'm sure everyone can understand where I'm coming from.
I'm sure everyone can understand where I'm coming from.
I wouldnt touch the issue about Cass patience.... most of us here agree that he has had more patience than is even right, considering the many engine failures(that i am pretty sure were not your fault anyways)...Nobody is going to suggest Cass car is didnt have issue after issue, its not just delays. Rather than complaining that your skills are being attacked, just try and sort things, out....id worry about gettin the car runnign well before other fuctionality of the vipec that can wait such as traction control.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; Dec 17, 2009 at 12:43 PM.
Cass-you have all the pieces to a beast a$$ car.
Dont let more setbacks keep you down, you have made it this far...
Some people can go to a shop have everything done and they have no issues for 2 years. Others like myself and you will ALWAYS be fixing something, tweaking something, dealing with some issue or minor nuisance.
Let it sit for the winter, and come spring decide what you want to do and with who. That is no insult to Dave or FT, he knows I like him, his shop and respect him. I know what its like to deal with a "good" shop and still not be even 70% happy, when that happens continually-regardless of who is at fault, its the customer who pays money every visit and leaves feeling no better than when he took the car there. Thats the ugly truth to some of these builds.
With that being said, dont give up on FT, give em a chance to make it right one more time.
Dont let more setbacks keep you down, you have made it this far...
Some people can go to a shop have everything done and they have no issues for 2 years. Others like myself and you will ALWAYS be fixing something, tweaking something, dealing with some issue or minor nuisance.
Let it sit for the winter, and come spring decide what you want to do and with who. That is no insult to Dave or FT, he knows I like him, his shop and respect him. I know what its like to deal with a "good" shop and still not be even 70% happy, when that happens continually-regardless of who is at fault, its the customer who pays money every visit and leaves feeling no better than when he took the car there. Thats the ugly truth to some of these builds.
With that being said, dont give up on FT, give em a chance to make it right one more time.
Cass-you have all the pieces to a beast a$$ car.
Dont let more setbacks keep you down, you have made it this far...
Some people can go to a shop have everything done and they have no issues for 2 years. Others like myself and you will ALWAYS be fixing something, tweaking something, dealing with some issue or minor nuisance.
Let it sit for the winter, and come spring decide what you want to do and with who. That is no insult to Dave or FT, he knows I like him, his shop and respect him. I know what its like to deal with a "good" shop and still not be even 70% happy, when that happens continually-regardless of who is at fault, its the customer who pays money every visit and leaves feeling no better than when he took the car there. Thats the ugly truth to some of these builds.
With that being said, dont give up on FT, give em a chance to make it right one more time.
Dont let more setbacks keep you down, you have made it this far...
Some people can go to a shop have everything done and they have no issues for 2 years. Others like myself and you will ALWAYS be fixing something, tweaking something, dealing with some issue or minor nuisance.
Let it sit for the winter, and come spring decide what you want to do and with who. That is no insult to Dave or FT, he knows I like him, his shop and respect him. I know what its like to deal with a "good" shop and still not be even 70% happy, when that happens continually-regardless of who is at fault, its the customer who pays money every visit and leaves feeling no better than when he took the car there. Thats the ugly truth to some of these builds.
With that being said, dont give up on FT, give em a chance to make it right one more time.
I'm hoping to get the wheels back from powder coat today and then they get dropped off for the centers to be painted to match the car. I had the lips coated silver to match the bezel trim pieces. I just got an Evo-R shift **** today as well.
I was/am trying to finish the wire tuck and swap my painted valve covers on before the show, but the weather has been terrible and is causing delays
. I've been working with jtgli on his car a bit and have grown tired of being in a cold garage so I broke down and got this:
225K BTUs
Kerosene fired, electrically controlled heater. It took my 20'x30' garage from 42*F to 72*F in 8 minutes. Now I just need to find the time between snow storms to work on the car.
I was/am trying to finish the wire tuck and swap my painted valve covers on before the show, but the weather has been terrible and is causing delays
. I've been working with jtgli on his car a bit and have grown tired of being in a cold garage so I broke down and got this:
225K BTUs
Kerosene fired, electrically controlled heater. It took my 20'x30' garage from 42*F to 72*F in 8 minutes. Now I just need to find the time between snow storms to work on the car.
I never noticed the set backs Cass
, Dave should have the first tune saved on his computer so it shouldn't be like starting from scratch. I could send you a copy of my tune but i don't want you to have a run away with that much awesomeness in your car
. I know Lightspeed Innovations has the software on there website and they might have a owners e-copy of the manual as well. I hope you get it all sorted out sooner than later.
, Dave should have the first tune saved on his computer so it shouldn't be like starting from scratch. I could send you a copy of my tune but i don't want you to have a run away with that much awesomeness in your car. I know Lightspeed Innovations has the software on there website and they might have a owners e-copy of the manual as well. I hope you get it all sorted out sooner than later.
so is the current state of affairs? i'd guess not if you are gettin ready to compete with the car
As I stated in the other thread, the car went back to the tuner a few months ago to attempt a fix to the idle and make more power. The idle issue could not be sorted out and then for some reason the car lost its tune in the process. The pump tune is OK, but not perfect. I was driving it occasionally @ 15psi or so on the pump tune for a while, but the car is put away for a bit now with salt & cinders on the roads.
Eventually the final tune will be sorted out before ZdayZ, but right now the car makes roughly stock block power and is not drivable on the meth tune. I just don't want to have my car spend another winter sitting inside a shop 2 states away collecting dust for 3 months.
The Z has several small issues that need to be sorted out as well and I hope to have these done by ZdayZ as well. I'm hoping that spring will give me a renewed interest in the car and I will actually get to drive it during warm weather for a change.
Eventually the final tune will be sorted out before ZdayZ, but right now the car makes roughly stock block power and is not drivable on the meth tune. I just don't want to have my car spend another winter sitting inside a shop 2 states away collecting dust for 3 months.
The Z has several small issues that need to be sorted out as well and I hope to have these done by ZdayZ as well. I'm hoping that spring will give me a renewed interest in the car and I will actually get to drive it during warm weather for a change.
Oh great.... its snowing again, looks like another 12" tonight to go with the 30" we got Saturday. I LOVE WINTER
Car ready for show shortly, car ready for go by ZdayZ is still the plan. Once the showy pieces are finished I can let the car go to a shop and have the tune sorted out. I just couldn't finish the show pieces without access to the car and have never liked the idea of my car sitting in a shop 2 states away for weeks at a time, I may have some sort of attachment disorder
Oh great.... its snowing again, looks like another 12" tonight to go with the 30" we got Saturday. I LOVE WINTER
Oh great.... its snowing again, looks like another 12" tonight to go with the 30" we got Saturday. I LOVE WINTER
It's been really cold here lately. It was about 65 today and to think I almost forgot my jacket at home! What would I have done without it today! I would have surely died of hypothermia!
cass your garage is 42*?!? i wish.. mine is at like 20s =((.. how much does a heater like that run for? I may actually get one =)
Its like $425 with tax and free shipping, took 4 days for delivery
Still snowing here, 6-8 inches and 6-8 more coming today. I will take better pics shortly (not with my phone), I got the rims from powder coat yesterday, so I will be taping them off for paint today.
