what do you think I need for making high hp?
Yupp 18G's Problem is that EGT gets to high on prolonged runs as on track or when maxing out speed. Better cams and porting and doing the valve seats shall hopefully cure that and my sense of lack of power
[/QUOTE]Why not go bigger turbos,? It would be money better spent IMO.
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[/QUOTE] Why not go bigger turbos,? It would be money better spent IMO.[/QUOTE]
Yes that's one of the things I'm about to do. I'm working around the clock but still I take some time for my build. Have started to research för turbo upgrade. Know I can get the td06 20g internals but I'm into roller bearing twins. Just got to find out what Garret to modify to fit to excising GReddy parts
Yes that's one of the things I'm about to do. I'm working around the clock but still I take some time for my build. Have started to research för turbo upgrade. Know I can get the td06 20g internals but I'm into roller bearing twins. Just got to find out what Garret to modify to fit to excising GReddy parts
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Now, I got a sponsorship (my first ever) an he is a highly trained turbo engineer that have 11 years in the turbo research/development industry. So for me it will be cheap if it's possible. But I don't know yet, he's investigating it. Otherwise it's the 20G's
Raj, I hear and appreciate what you are saying.
It's all good until theory is asserted as fact over real world data and experiences. In this thread, theory and JWT marketing fluff were used to propagate a fallacy about JWT springs & cams. go-fast called it out and attempted to correct the misinformation about JWT springs and the supposed harm in using different brands of springs/cams in combination (given the available brands/choices on the market for the VQ). Real world experience within the VQ community supports what go-fast stated. The results of tons of builds posted in this forum do not support Terry's assertions. It is misleading to the community and folks such as Brian (who already have JWT springs with stock cams and are looking to upgrade) to suggest that they should only get JWT cams in combo with JWT springs and that anything else is potentially harmful with those springs. I think it is a disservice to the community to let such things be propagated as fact and go unchallenged when there is a lack of real world experience within the community to support it.
Case in point that does not support Terry's argument (which conveniently got glossed over
)... Ferrea does not make cams for the VQ. Yet their valve springs have been combined with almost every brand of cam available for the VQ. We've seen plenty of builds over the years where Ferrea springs were combined with JWT, GTM, Nismo, Tomei, BC cams, etc. with positive results and no indications of harmonic imbalance or problems associated with the spring/cam combo. This includes my longblock with Ferrea valvetrain and Nismo R cams that performed well in the previous owner's Greddy TT Z up to 700whp. The motor has since been torn down and inspected without showing any signs of problems or issues related to the valvetrain or cam choice.
I'm not proposing that guys should half hazardly mix brands of springs/cams for the hell of it. If somebody is upgrading their springs and cams at the same time (as most do), it's logical and typical to stick with the same brand when possible. But for those who upgraded just springs or just cams prior, I think it is BS to tell them that only spring A will function safely or properly with cam A and vice versa.
I agree with you Raj that 1,000+whp builds aren't for everyone, but I disagree with those who say you cannot make a 1,000whp car streetable. Keep in mind that guys with 1,000+whp street cars (ie. Supra guys) typically run lower power settings on the street and some actually do care about drivability when they aren't running max power. You don't necessarily need huge cams to achieve 4-digit power levels either. The Sound Performance 1,200+whp shop Z, Intense wide body G, and Jorge's 1,000whp build have BC stage 2 cams; not stage 3. The BC stage 2 cam is a relatively mild cam (based on advertised specs) that thus far has exhibited excellent midrange and top end powerband beyond stock redline while still retaining decent idle quality and good drivability for street applications. Even though the BC stage 3 is more hardcore and isn't advertised as a street cam by BC, folks like Alberto have had good success with it in street applications and were still able to maintain a useful powerband. IMO, the fact that some of the premier shops in the community are using BC cams for their builds is noteworthy and it shouldn't be casually dismissed as something just for dyno queens.
It's all good until theory is asserted as fact over real world data and experiences. In this thread, theory and JWT marketing fluff were used to propagate a fallacy about JWT springs & cams. go-fast called it out and attempted to correct the misinformation about JWT springs and the supposed harm in using different brands of springs/cams in combination (given the available brands/choices on the market for the VQ). Real world experience within the VQ community supports what go-fast stated. The results of tons of builds posted in this forum do not support Terry's assertions. It is misleading to the community and folks such as Brian (who already have JWT springs with stock cams and are looking to upgrade) to suggest that they should only get JWT cams in combo with JWT springs and that anything else is potentially harmful with those springs. I think it is a disservice to the community to let such things be propagated as fact and go unchallenged when there is a lack of real world experience within the community to support it.
Case in point that does not support Terry's argument (which conveniently got glossed over
)... Ferrea does not make cams for the VQ. Yet their valve springs have been combined with almost every brand of cam available for the VQ. We've seen plenty of builds over the years where Ferrea springs were combined with JWT, GTM, Nismo, Tomei, BC cams, etc. with positive results and no indications of harmonic imbalance or problems associated with the spring/cam combo. This includes my longblock with Ferrea valvetrain and Nismo R cams that performed well in the previous owner's Greddy TT Z up to 700whp. The motor has since been torn down and inspected without showing any signs of problems or issues related to the valvetrain or cam choice.I'm not proposing that guys should half hazardly mix brands of springs/cams for the hell of it. If somebody is upgrading their springs and cams at the same time (as most do), it's logical and typical to stick with the same brand when possible. But for those who upgraded just springs or just cams prior, I think it is BS to tell them that only spring A will function safely or properly with cam A and vice versa.
I agree with you Raj that 1,000+whp builds aren't for everyone, but I disagree with those who say you cannot make a 1,000whp car streetable. Keep in mind that guys with 1,000+whp street cars (ie. Supra guys) typically run lower power settings on the street and some actually do care about drivability when they aren't running max power. You don't necessarily need huge cams to achieve 4-digit power levels either. The Sound Performance 1,200+whp shop Z, Intense wide body G, and Jorge's 1,000whp build have BC stage 2 cams; not stage 3. The BC stage 2 cam is a relatively mild cam (based on advertised specs) that thus far has exhibited excellent midrange and top end powerband beyond stock redline while still retaining decent idle quality and good drivability for street applications. Even though the BC stage 3 is more hardcore and isn't advertised as a street cam by BC, folks like Alberto have had good success with it in street applications and were still able to maintain a useful powerband. IMO, the fact that some of the premier shops in the community are using BC cams for their builds is noteworthy and it shouldn't be casually dismissed as something just for dyno queens.
For what it is worth, I appreciate the update to this post. It is not bashing, but presents facts and your opinion in a logical manner.
Although we may disagree, I see no better way to present our respective opinions.
RudeG, even though you may not care, I commend you on this post.
Last edited by ttg35fort; Sep 22, 2009 at 05:01 PM.
A billet girdle will add strength to the motor. It will help if you are spinning high rpms, or just laying down a lot of hp. I'm using one, as well as billit main caps. Can't hurt - but provides a nice insurance policy.
For what it is worth, I appreciate the update to this post. It is not bashing, but presents facts and your opinion in a logical manner.
Although we may disagree, I see no better way to present our respective opinions.
RudeG, even though you may not care, I commend you on this post.
Although we may disagree, I see no better way to present our respective opinions.
RudeG, even though you may not care, I commend you on this post.
Like Tom and Terry stated... A billet girdle would be prudent if you are running over 8,000RPM, are running well over 700whp, and/or are doing a lot of road/endurance racing.
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Ok but there's a lot of "just to be safe's" (shops that says: a must) and I have to choose those most needed. Of cause I understand the point of having one and I'm really interested in getting one. Is there some "limit" when it's getting important?
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I don't plan sleeving since I love road racing, and not interested in 1/4 mile or building a dyno queen. But I really love to hit 800whp. Would that be stupid/unsafe?
imo, that is pushing it if you don't have at least a billit girdle. Not to say that it will fail immediately, but the flexure of the motor at those hp levels will take its toll on your bearings and they won't last as long.
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I've orded the Injected Performance main girdle. Also putting in ACL race main and rod bearings
At least some of the Cosworth head gaskets are re-stamped Cometic head gaskets. Some people have had good luck with Cometics, but then some have not. In comparison to the HKS head gaskets, the Cometics fail far more frequently. Personally, I would never use a Cometic head gasket unless there was no other choice. For instance, HKS head gaskets don't appear to be an option for those using a 100 mm bore. In your case, since there is an HKS option, go with HKS. They are not cheap, but they are well proven. The HR head gasket MAY be a good option, and only cost around $70 for a pair, but it is not yet proven.
I am still debating between the HKS and HR head gasket for my new motor. The advantage of the HKS is that it has a proven track record. The advantage of the HR head gasket is that it improves coolent flow to the exhaust valve side of the head.
Cometic makes head gaskets for a lot of other people that mearly re-stamp it. It is not out of the realm of possibility that even the HR head gasket is a re-stamped Cometic (there is absolutely no information I have seen that indicates it is or it is not). Nonetheless, the head gaskets purchased under the Cometic name are NOT the same head gaskets provided for the HR motors. So, even if Cometic makes the HR head gaskets (again, they may or may not), the retail Cometic head gaskets are in no way the same as those provided for the HR motor. I also beleive that the Cosworth head gaskets are not the same as the HR head gaskets.
In summary, the HKS is the safe bet, especially at the hp levels you want to achieve. If $360 is too steep of a price to pay, and perhaps you like the HR coolent flow pattern, then the HR head gaskets at around $70 may be worth considering. If the Cosworth head gaskets are indeed re-stamped Cometics of the conventional Cometic type, I don't beleive it is worth running the risk of using them on a motor with as much money as you will have tied up into it. I have heard of big hp motors that use Cometics successfully, but I have also heard of a lot of Cometic head gasket failures...
Last edited by ttg35fort; Sep 27, 2009 at 02:32 PM.
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(I promissed myself I would stop checking the forum so that I can focus on work, but I'm here, so I'll share my opinion).
At least some of the Cosworth head gaskets are re-stamped Cometic head gaskets. Some people have had good luck with Cometics, but then some have not. In comparison to the HKS head gaskets, the Cometics fail far more frequently. Personally, I would never use a Cometic head gasket unless there was no other choice. For instance, HKS head gaskets don't appear to be an option for those using a 100 mm bore. In your case, since there is an HKS option, go with HKS. They are not cheap, but they are well proven. The HR head gasket MAY be a good option, and only cost around $70 for a pair, but it is not yet proven.
I am still debating between the HKS and HR head gasket for my new motor. The advantage of the HKS is that it has a proven track record. The advantage of the HR head gasket is that it improves coolent flow to the exhaust valve side of the head.
Cometic makes head gaskets for a lot of other people that mearly re-stamp it. It is not out of the realm of possibility that even the HR head gasket is a re-stamped Cometic (there is absolutely no information I have seen that indicates it is or it is not). Nonetheless, the head gaskets purchased under the Cometic name are NOT the same head gaskets provided for the HR motors. So, even if Cometic makes the HR head gaskets (again, they may or may not), the retail Cometic head gaskets are in no way the same as those provided for the HR motor. I also beleive that the Cosworth head gaskets are not the same as the HR head gaskets.
In summary, the HKS is the safe bet, especially at the hp levels you want to achieve. If $360 is too steep of a price to pay, and perhaps you like the HR coolent flow pattern, then the HR head gaskets at around $70 may be worth considering. If the Cosworth head gaskets are indeed re-stamped Cometics of the conventional Cometic type, I don't beleive it is worth running the risk of using them on a motor with as much money as you will have tied up into it. I have heard of big hp motors that use Cometics successfully, but I have also heard of a lot of Cometic head gasket failures...
At least some of the Cosworth head gaskets are re-stamped Cometic head gaskets. Some people have had good luck with Cometics, but then some have not. In comparison to the HKS head gaskets, the Cometics fail far more frequently. Personally, I would never use a Cometic head gasket unless there was no other choice. For instance, HKS head gaskets don't appear to be an option for those using a 100 mm bore. In your case, since there is an HKS option, go with HKS. They are not cheap, but they are well proven. The HR head gasket MAY be a good option, and only cost around $70 for a pair, but it is not yet proven.
I am still debating between the HKS and HR head gasket for my new motor. The advantage of the HKS is that it has a proven track record. The advantage of the HR head gasket is that it improves coolent flow to the exhaust valve side of the head.
Cometic makes head gaskets for a lot of other people that mearly re-stamp it. It is not out of the realm of possibility that even the HR head gasket is a re-stamped Cometic (there is absolutely no information I have seen that indicates it is or it is not). Nonetheless, the head gaskets purchased under the Cometic name are NOT the same head gaskets provided for the HR motors. So, even if Cometic makes the HR head gaskets (again, they may or may not), the retail Cometic head gaskets are in no way the same as those provided for the HR motor. I also beleive that the Cosworth head gaskets are not the same as the HR head gaskets.
In summary, the HKS is the safe bet, especially at the hp levels you want to achieve. If $360 is too steep of a price to pay, and perhaps you like the HR coolent flow pattern, then the HR head gaskets at around $70 may be worth considering. If the Cosworth head gaskets are indeed re-stamped Cometics of the conventional Cometic type, I don't beleive it is worth running the risk of using them on a motor with as much money as you will have tied up into it. I have heard of big hp motors that use Cometics successfully, but I have also heard of a lot of Cometic head gasket failures...
I didn't know that about Cosworth's head gaskets. If I had I would never got them in first place. As you write, it's not worth risking the engine for "tiny" $360. So I now it's on the list
I'm a bit disappointed w/ Haltech... no map switch funtion. Should have purchased the F-CON instead. Now I don't think I will install any meth injection. There's not many using it over here and I don't know enough about meth injection to select the parts I need to do a SAFE install w/o having map switch funtion in the EMS
I'm a bit disappointed w/ Haltech... no map switch funtion. Should have purchased the F-CON instead. Now I don't think I will install any meth injection. There's not many using it over here and I don't know enough about meth injection to select the parts I need to do a SAFE install w/o having map switch funtion in the EMS
Any of you Haltech guys know how to get the Haltech to automatically change maps when he turns on and off the meth system?
On my F-CON, we are using the scramble function to select the map when the meth system is turned on.
Pretty sure a 5V source can switch the meth on with a Haltech. How I do it is just run one map for 2 pump gas boost levels, and one map for 2 meth/boost levels.
The lack of a map switch does blow though, having to bust out a laptop sucks.
The lack of a map switch does blow though, having to bust out a laptop sucks.
That's really important info, great write up
I didn't know that about Cosworth's head gaskets. If I had I would never got them in first place. As you write, it's not worth risking the engine for "tiny" $360. So I now it's on the list
I'm a bit disappointed w/ Haltech... no map switch funtion. Should have purchased the F-CON instead. Now I don't think I will install any meth injection. There's not many using it over here and I don't know enough about meth injection to select the parts I need to do a SAFE install w/o having map switch funtion in the EMS
I didn't know that about Cosworth's head gaskets. If I had I would never got them in first place. As you write, it's not worth risking the engine for "tiny" $360. So I now it's on the list
I'm a bit disappointed w/ Haltech... no map switch funtion. Should have purchased the F-CON instead. Now I don't think I will install any meth injection. There's not many using it over here and I don't know enough about meth injection to select the parts I need to do a SAFE install w/o having map switch funtion in the EMS
). Again, please ask Hal for confirmation (and I apologize in advance for any misrepresentations, but this is my understanding)...
Last edited by rcdash; Sep 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM.