binder

iTrader: (8)

that's false info that circulated.

I would be pumped if my engine looked great after all that hard use! you should be too!

Old School

iTrader: (28)

not all over us are after peak power right off the bat. longivity is a factor, especially when you spend a ton of money building the car and plan on beating the sh*t out of it. If I were a drag racer, I'd go for maximum power...road racing at 800whp is retarded in the Z. 550-650whp is the threshold...anymore than that and it becomes much harder to pedal.

And I'm with Alberto...I won't upgrade the guts on my turbos until I kill em. And I enjoy mid-range power way to much to trade up for bigger snails. Lag isn't fun during a road racing event.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I've been meaning to dish out some specifics on here about this very comparison.
Carrillos and Eagles are almost the same.
Both are made of the same materials, both are very very similar in design. The eagles being slightly lighter (possibly due to less material), but are shot peened.
Eagle rods have a weaker rod bolt standard, but you can get l19's which are considered to be almost identical to the Carrillo. The standard ARP 2000 (235 kpsi tensile strength) are quoted to the 2j guys to be good for 1200hp, but the l19's would make them good for 1400 to maybe 1500hp (265kpsi tensile), and that's on the older 5/16" bolts, now the eagle rods run a 3/8" bolt.
Next up, there are more than a couple supras running 1000crank on eagle rods. One of the most famous is Bjork (tons of videos of his beast a** car on youtube), who used the standard bolts and RAGS on his car using a whopping gt47r. That to me is proof enough.
Next we have Hal's 350z, running eagle rods making 770whp (correct me if im wrong, but the car has more than 700whp, which Injected/Dynosty claims is about 1000crank through their dyno).
Why are the carrillo's more expensive? They have been checked and made to spec. Eagles are made in korea and finished in the US, but have consistency issues. So you pay 480 for the rods, pay about $xxx [idk actually how much they are] for the custom l19 (or you could go even further and buy aged bolts), then pay a bit for your shop to put them in spec (clearances correct, all matching weights/lengths etc), then correctly install them and you will have rods stronger than your block.
I have yet to see an eagle rod fail on our engines, and I see the block failing before the rod. This is why I am going to run the eagle rods on my big hp build.
And I have read that some big block guys ran the carrillos and eagles in the same engine and had them fail at the same time (with the upgraded bolts). I have also read that stress testing found them to fail (bend) at the same tensile strength as carrillos. Plenty ford 4.6 dohc cars have made 1200hp on eagle rods with the standard bolts (reving out to 85000rpm).
The rod bolt isn't actually as important for our engines, because they fail mainly due to rpms. There are very few vq's going to 8,000rpm so the 2000's are fine.
IMO the shops that say eagle's blow-a** are bulls*** (on stock sleeve setups) and probably only want your $.

Old School

iTrader: (28)

^Cant really compare what goes in a supra to the vq. I've seen 900whp stock block supras. apples to oranges.

As far as which rods to buy...both are good rods. I'd rather spend a little more in the beginning than alot more down the line. Most of the engine failures you see on here are from tuning or overboosting. I run carrillos...still on my first build.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

umm, hello, eagle f'n suck for big power. if you think they are that awesome, you can kindly send me 7000$ for the entire motor they wiped when the rod sheered, bolts were just fine.

they are not the same. its ignorant and irresponsible to even say they are similar. I hope the eagle work well for you though and your builder 100% warranties the entire thing.

Old School

iTrader: (28)

is that all your spent on your motor? weaksauce

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

ahh it was subsidized by XKR but didnt include the turbo rebuilds etc.... my new motor is worth more than the blue book on my car plus a few thousand. Forged performance FTW!

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm willing to bet both my ***** that something in your build wasn't right. Why would Hal's car hold the power? DD'd and hold the 6 speed record? lol Because it was properly built.
Either someone didn't check the clearances on your eagle's (which is a documented problem) or something wasn't installed right or you had some other failure (idk and i dont care).
Just like the darton sleeves, its all about who installs it.

I'm building and planning for 1000 crank. I'm believing they will hold the power. Instead of spending another 600 bucks on rods, I'm spending that money where it counts, on the builder, the ecu and the tune.

99% of the time when eagles fail its because of tune or improper install. Even a pauter rod will bend when you do things incorrectly.

Supras hold 900whp on stock block because their internals are strong, not because the I-6 is some mythical design (although it is a good design).

You guys do what you want, I believe in them.

Old School

iTrader: (28)

yea, that's about where I was when I built the car. everyone that asks me how much i've spent trips out when they find out its more than double what I paid for the car in 2005. we have a serious problem don't we? lol. performance ******. lol

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

And of the stuff I've read about Forged (on here) I wouldn't trust them for that much $.

Old School

iTrader: (28)

supras hold that power stock block because its a closed deck and iron block. not to mention they're engineered for boost. like i said...apples to oranges. you're on the wrong forum if you think you're gonna be giving ppl any lessons around here.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

good luck.

not sure how you sheer a rod in the middle without it being a over HP rated POS. i wouldnt want you to be a eunich.

not tryin to get in an argument, that was my experience. do what you want, its your money and your comfort level. physics is a ***** and doesnt care if you spent more money on a tune over pure mechanics

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I'm glad you didn't take that the wrong way.

Yeah physics is a *****! haha got plenty more of that to take in my future.
I'm actually curious to see pictures of this rod. Did you spin a bearing? Did it just shear in half? You can pm me so we dont thread jack.
I'm just saying from tests that the eagle rod is the same as the carillo h beam (if it has the l19 bolts, which increase the theoretical strength by about 40%).

binder

iTrader: (8)

ya, you can't compare a rod designed for a completely different engine with different stroke to a vq. Just because they are the same manufacturer doesn't mean the design and shape of them built for each individual engine will provide the maximum strength. That's like saying eagle rods for an LS2 is the same strength of that for a vq. They are different length therefore have different moment arm which means different stresses.

one major difference: carrillo= 1 piece; eagle= 2 piece forged together

Old School

iTrader: (28)

word. if you're gonna spend $7k-15k building your motor...what's another $700? Guess I've built too many cars...I know what happens when you don't use top of the line gear...most of the time you're left wishing you had. And that's not a good place to be...especially with the Z.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

7-15k? lol whut.


Anyway, i think you have to remember that unless the rod snapped in half, the rod technically didn't fail, and something else went wrong. Because if it BROKE under the stress of the power, it would SNAP. It wouldn't just bend. Idk if str8's snapped or bent, if it destroyed the block like that it could have snapped...
I was talking with my builder today about them (he prefers manley/another that is skipping my mind at 3 am) and the rod to bore ratio is fine; and the only real reason this rod should fail is because of a tune issue (we were talking about big hp).
I tried to ask str8 about what went down in a PM, but he doesn't seem to willing to share.
It will be interesting to see how my block holds up. If Str8's rod failed, I'm curious at what hp, and curious to see his data logs (should he have had them).
I guess if you were to say they sucked because they won't take detonation (they will bend) like a pauter will, that's fair. But if you were to say they break because they can't handle the power (which is what it feels like you are saying), then I feel this is unfair; unless there are data logs to prove clean runs and a build sheet to prove a proper install. (not to be annoying or disbelieving, just to be 'scientific'/fair)
Besides the 2jz's, there are more than a few b18's and 4g63's making 600hp, and 600awhp (respectively) reliably with eagle rods. If you look at all the v-8's making between 1200-1700hp (reliably pass after pass, one guy made over 350 passes on the strip, revving high) and still tell me they are s*** then IDK what to tell you.
As for quality control; every high hp build (regardless of the parts used) should have all the clearances severely checked, AND have the rods magnafluxed. If a rod bends and you didn't have the shop do everything right, you have no-one to blame but yourself.

PS-I've been thread-jacking, badly, lately. I'll try and stop

Edit:
you bring up a good point, makes me want to compare the dimensions/ratios for each rod, because I get the feeling they design their rods to a relatively consistent ratio so that they can give the HP ratings they do. I think what I was trying to say with those examples is that their 'ratings' really aren't that far from what is actually achievable. If they were pretty close to right for many other boosted applications, why would they be wrong for our engines? I could agree that because they aren't as beefy as others they may bend easier under detonation circumstances, therefore they 'suck', but to me they should be fine.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

str8dum1 I think was right near 900 whp DD. Survived the dyno just fine. A rod snapped on a 5th gear pull on the highway. He said it was fairly evident that the rod just failed. The rod is rated for 1500 chp in the vq35. Maybe it was a bad rod or maybe the rating means squat or maybe he was just going uphill! I don't think Hal would recommend Eagle rods for a 1000+ whp build. 1000 chp might be fine. It's all a big guessing game.

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

Interesting...

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

like Raj said and I said in my 1st post, the rod snapped in half. pure mechanical failure.

its already been discussed in other threads. If your builder/tuner is fine with eagles and stands behind the build, thats all the matters though. At the end of the day, he's the one that will have to do the job again if something goes wrong.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I've never heard of a builder backing up their build 100%, and my builder actually doesn't like eagle (he'd rather see me go manley or kpro or something), but should the magnafluxing prove they are up to spec, I'll put my money where my mouth is. All the shop is doing is full hone, clearances/gaps and I'm putting it together.
Idk () if I'm search retarded (or rather Resmarted, oh lol), but I'm having a hard time finding a thread with your blown motor/build etc...
EDIT:
Actually this thread made me consider the pauter setup... and I realized if I sold my untouched wiseco and eagle setup, and got about a grand I could get a fully assembled pauter equipped stage 2 block for the same cost as getting this block spec'd up by my local racing shop (not even fully assembled). I must say f*ck that, thanks Str8 lol.