gonna hit 750 minimum whp. gonna put some dope on top

 

750 minimum is what Forced Said? Thats on 18g with bigger wheels shoved in the same sized housing?
What was the car making before the upgrade?

 

A lil more info

That 10-12cm housing would be sweet. THAWK, who did you contact about finding out if the other housigns were available?

Seems that turbo BMW guys use the 20g with the multiple housing options as thats where I got that quote from.

 

But what looks good on paper does not always equate to real life testings. I highly doubt a bigger exhaust housing is going to fit with the tight clearances. I still do not believe twin 20g's on our cars will make 900rwhp. If it even gets close the power curve will most likely peak then start to fall.

 

I talked with greddy USA directly, also DeadBolt, Precision, and Forced Performance. It has to do with the flange on the manifold if memory serves me correclty. I even emailed the picture of the turbine inlet flange to Precision and they said they did not have anything that would match it.

 

We won't know for sure until someone tries it. To put this into perspective, GTM rates the GT3076 with 0.64 A/R at 1050 hp, and the GT3076 with 0.86 A/R at 1100 hp. GTM rates the GT3071 with 0.64 A/R at 900 hp, and the GT3071 with 0.86 A/R at 1000 hp (when used in pairs).

I have double checked the GT3071 data and this corresponds to Garret's data, the data from the website provided by the OP, and data generated by my own spreadsheet. That is 4 different sources that all correlate.

Now, the TD06 turbine is significantly larger than a GT3076 turbine, and almost as large as a GT3582 turbine. The 20G compressor is just a hare smaller than the GT3071 compressor. So, the TD06SH-20G should perform somewhere between the GT3071 and the GT3582, maybe somewhere between the GT3071 and the GT3076. That puts the TD06SH-20G somewhere between 900 hp and 1050 hp with a 0.64 A/R, and somewhere between 1000 and 1100 hp with a 0.86 A/R. Subtract 70 hp for driveline losses, and you see where we are.

Of course, all of the supporting mods need to be there to achieve that level of hp. Most people don't throw in the billet girdle, billet main bearing caps, billet crank, etc., etc., which is why we have not yet seen the Greddy turbos get there yet. I am using the GT3071 turbos with 0.64 A/R on my new build, so it will give us a good indication. We know the TD06SH-20G turbos are more capable than my turbos. If I can get north of 800 whp on race gas or with meth injection, I am confident the TD06SH-20G turbos will get north of 900 whp (although it may take the 10 cm^2 housing or bigger to get there).

 

^ well hurry the F up Terry, I'm tired of posting all these theortical threads! LOL

THawk +1, It just seems there is no real life data right now. JayZ did 500 at 15 psi. Thats the most aggro 3.5l VQ dyno out there. The tuners say they are good for an easy 700+ but cant find those charts. Singles are making 390s alot on 2L cars.

But, ya exhaust housing size is what kills the VQ platform. Thats why I am still looking into a custom single with a T4 flange and routing a 3.5" downpipe. But if I still can reach similar power, I'd rather go with twins for a little better powerband. If that SP kit wasnt so crazy to install and didnt use that oil sump, twin 6057s would be the quick choice!

 

That reminds me... I forgot to make my weekly call to Sam to check on the status of my short block. Tomorrow I guess.

There is a chance the 8cm^2 exhaust housing will work because the turbine is so darn big.

 

How design wise the td06 compare to its garret counter-part? Maybe the size will not specifically determine its power potential. At what PSI, according to your calculations, will it reach 900rwhp? On the 18g's I know much past low 20s and you are wasting your time.

I think if the turbo is even going to have a shot at touching the power potential of kits like SP and SFR, it is going to need a bigger turbine housing. Even then you are still limiting it, due to the fact that the turbine inlet is not going to flow what a t-3 would.

 

Why try areas that have never been achieved...I'm not sayin the 20G's don't make power, cause they do....

But there are other setups that have done, and are doing what you want and more already.........even the 18g's are right there lol.

For my money, when thinking 1xxxrwhp.....I'd only go with those that have done it already, but thats me.

tom

 

I think the HTA upgrad would certainly be worth while, but how much is unknown. Dont be afraid of scavenge pumps. My new kit has one.

 

Crazy to install?

Just can't do it with motor in the car. Thats for sure lol.

I have never had issue with the sump either. As a matter of fact thats how most companies end up doing their setups (HP kit for almost all GM's is like that). But most other systems don't use a reservoir, they just have 1 way valves coming out of the turbos and hope the pump can get the oil out of the lines fast enough.

I'm thinking of going to just the 55mm billets over winter....mine has show with the 54standard wheels that you really don't need anymore for a street car lol

tom

 

A 10cm^2 housing would give a 0.71 A/R with a turbine that is significantly larger than the GT3076. As far as the calculations, go to the squirrel site the OP provided the link to. With a good intercooler, our intake air temps run about 105 - 110 deg. F. Use that for your temperature. Also, use 130% for the VE. Then pull up the TD06-20G compressor map, and it shows the data.

The OP did this, but he had the incorrect VE and intake air temperature for our motors. Once the proper values are put in, it looks pretty good.

Based on my calculations, I show that for 900 whp we need about 43.1 lb/min of air flow from each turbo at 11.5 AFR to reach 900 whp. The Greddy 20G compressor map shows that those compressors are capable of that air flow volume. As I previously noted, the unknown is the turbines, but the TD06 turbine is larger than the GT3076 turbine, which is rated at 1000-1100 hp depending on the A/R.

Remember, the TD05 turbine is smaller than the GT3071 turbine, and the TD06 turbine is closest in size to the GT3582 turbine. So, the difference between the TD05 and TD06 turbines is nearly as big as the difference between the GT3071 and GT3582 turbines.

Here are the sizes in mm:

Turbine______Inducer_______Exducer
TD05__________56____________49
TD06__________65____________55.1
GT3071________56.5__________51.8
GT3076________60____________55
GT3582________68____________62.3


One last thing, a TD06 turbine with a 10 cm^2 inlet is larger than a GT3076 0.64 A/R, which is only 8.34 cm^2 (it is the same for the same A/R, regardless of whether you use a T25 or T3 flange). For comparison, the turbine inlet on the GT3582 0.76 A/R is 11.17 cm^2.

Remember, the turbine inlet area is specified by the A/R value, not the type of flange that is used. Garrett's web site provides information on this, and we beat it to death in another thread not too long ago.

 

I was talking wheel design, not turbine housing size. The garret might have better flowing wheels despite its smaller size.

Look at this tho.

https://my350z.com/forum/shop-builds...o-numbers.html

This kit is better flowing is basicly every way. At 21psi made 790rwhp with all the supporting mods you need to flow air at these power levels. Looking at these numbers I dont see how a 20g is going to flow the air needed to make 900rwhp on these motors, and dont think its going to be worth pushing the 20g much past low-mid 20psi . Maybe on a different car or on paper, but I just dont see it on the VQ.

Although I do hope someone goes ***** outs and tries to see the absolute limit of the greddy 20g/hta kit. Would certainly be some good information to have! Might make me want to try my 3rd kit.

 

I think its all going to come back to the pressure difference between the exhaust manifold pressure in intake pressure as well.

Those turbo map's are assuming perfect airflow in and out I pressume....and we know that isn't the case. And i believe the headers are going to be more limiting than the intakes available at this point.

just a thought...

tom

 

What is their 67bb turbo equivalent to? What are the turbine and compressor dimensions?

Well, per Greddy's published map, the compressor is capable of 900 whp when two turbos are used. And, the turbine is huge. You are correct, they do not specify the trim, whereas Garrett does, but still, that turbine is 5 mm bigger than a GT3076 turbine, and just 3 mm shy of a GT3582 turbine.

Mike's new turbines will be somewhat analygous to the TD06 turbine since he has the GT3582 turbos and his turbine inlet area is only 1.2 cm^2 larger than the TD06 with the 10 cm^2 inlet.

It is all SWAGs (scientific wild @ss guestimates) until someone tries it. But just because nobody has tried it does not mean it can't be done. There is a first time for everything, and the first time of someone pushing the TD06SH-20G to the extreme just has not happened yet.

With the TD05-18G, which is SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER, as noted above, I made 609 rwhp at 17.5 psi on a Mustang Dyno. According to Roger at Japtrix, that Mustang Dyno reads about 10% lower than a DJ and about on par with a DD. I don't want to get into a debate about dynos, but assume for a moment that this is true, that puts my rwhp up around 670 as would be measured in a DJ on pump gas. Throw on meth injection or race gas, I'm confident we would have been close to 800 as would be measured on a DJ. Now, change out the TD05-18G to the TD06SH-20G's, and there would easily be over 100 whp left to be tapped, if not more. Again, just look at the size difference between those turbos.

 

Great info in this thread.........all this talk is making me want to finish my build even sooner. I miss boost... damn i hate you guys...lol..j/k

 

I dunno, JOeK said he had to notch his frame rails to fit the smaller 5857s and that install was definitely not a home DIY. I have my motor sitting in my hallway but thats seems to be only 1/2 the problems. Not to mention the stance of my car would be bad for a low hanging sump. Going on what other people have said from their personal experiences, those sumps are not in a good location for daily driving at much less than stock suspension height. I mean if Larry or Chris wanna take my car in and do it for a deal, I wouldnt say no I'd even go twin 6262's

If i lived in Chicago, Marietta, or Lexington, it would be an easy choice. But since I am like 500 from forged or Injected, I dont have any 'local' options for big power installs. Leaving my car at a shop for 2-3 months really isnt an option either. I am very mechanically inclined and part of my passion is building myself.

Injected in the only one that has done fast 1/4 mile passes 'locally' while Sharif focuses on RTA. Very different in the approach for the build. Not to mention a 1 off kit would run 2x as much as something OTS.

The kits that use the garretts have such random install luck. I'd just dont wanna be another 'i'm so tired of tryin to get this POS to fit" thread. I just wanna have, 'i trapped 140 mph in a G35' thread

Like said, on paper the 20g look good, but definitely not my top choice in a perfect world. I just dont want to skip over any possible options though!

 

See if you can get the kit with the 10 cm^2 turbine inlets. I think that will get you to 900 whp, assuming you have all of the supporting mods.

The GTM Stage 5 turbo kit with the 3076 0.64 A/R turbos is another option. And, it uses Garret water cooled turbos.

I think the APS extreme is also supposed to be able to get you to 900 whp, though I have not yet seen it.

Also, check out Speed Force Racing's exhaust manifolds/kits. The exhaust manifolds are stainless steel, but smaller than Sound Performance's, and they offer an option of using a grade of stainless steel one step up from SP's.

 

a good comparison of the greddy wheels