G35 Sedan at Cobb with blown motor need advise
01-07-2010, 02:06 PM
#81
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Ordering heads from GTM. IPP supplied the short block but didn't have heads available without core right now and we're under time constraints so Kirk can have a car to drive.
Things are going slowly and I'm sorry for the delay but we're trying to be meticulous about the rebuild.
Kirk contacted us and we're more than willing to help get his car up and going again. Motor damage was more than severe to say the least. This wasn't just a minor oops. The #5 and #6 pistons are essentially non-existant. There may have been a 1" ball of metal that was piston #5 but the rest of those cylinders was turned into dust that contaminated the entire motor. There is even molten metal stuck in a few injector tips.
The damage is only in the last two cylinders. The other four, besides aluminum dust from the destroyed pistons are in reasonable shape considering. So it's not motor failure, it's not too much boost. There was too much heat built up in the last two cylinders and heavy detonation.
If it was a single piston that failed, or if it was all pistons that had the same failure I could say that it was a weak motor or something when wildly out of control. But with the failure on Kirks motor it is obvious where the problem is. Not that it matters to him, there is no warranty on tuning, only lessons to be learned.
Things are going slowly and I'm sorry for the delay but we're trying to be meticulous about the rebuild.
Kirk contacted us and we're more than willing to help get his car up and going again. Motor damage was more than severe to say the least. This wasn't just a minor oops. The #5 and #6 pistons are essentially non-existant. There may have been a 1" ball of metal that was piston #5 but the rest of those cylinders was turned into dust that contaminated the entire motor. There is even molten metal stuck in a few injector tips.
The damage is only in the last two cylinders. The other four, besides aluminum dust from the destroyed pistons are in reasonable shape considering. So it's not motor failure, it's not too much boost. There was too much heat built up in the last two cylinders and heavy detonation.
If it was a single piston that failed, or if it was all pistons that had the same failure I could say that it was a weak motor or something when wildly out of control. But with the failure on Kirks motor it is obvious where the problem is. Not that it matters to him, there is no warranty on tuning, only lessons to be learned.
01-07-2010, 02:17 PM
#83
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First off, sorry to hear this. AP isn't problem, its mattre with who tuned the car. Idk, if you still had stock sensor or housing, imo...around 350whp is pretty much limit with their dyno. The papers you signed from cobb is that they are not response for anything happen.
Anyway, we talked about this shop/tuner when we first time met, I recommand again...take your car out from cobb and talk to uprev or jtrain about block and tune. It has been a while kirk, sit back and now let the shop handle this everything. Ems or block, let the shop find one for you.
I'm going thru sh*t in my life, so I might not have a time to jump on this thread.
So...good luck kirk.
And to who having questions about psi/whp, 12 psi and little over 400whp is safe with stock block.
Have a good day my350z brothers.
Chefj
Edit: cobb is same as reflash ECU. I don't know, if they can monitor knock at high rpms.
Anyway, we talked about this shop/tuner when we first time met, I recommand again...take your car out from cobb and talk to uprev or jtrain about block and tune. It has been a while kirk, sit back and now let the shop handle this everything. Ems or block, let the shop find one for you.
I'm going thru sh*t in my life, so I might not have a time to jump on this thread.
So...good luck kirk.
And to who having questions about psi/whp, 12 psi and little over 400whp is safe with stock block.
Have a good day my350z brothers.
Chefj
Edit: cobb is same as reflash ECU. I don't know, if they can monitor knock at high rpms.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
01-07-2010, 02:32 PM
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Without the cores, and adding heads makes the bill jump. On the bright side there will be a shiny new stronger than stock motor in your bay. We should have it together a few days after we get the heads in, get a few hours of break in and then up on the dyno.
01-07-2010, 02:47 PM
#85
Cobb isn't the same. Flash technique is an industry standard set by government mandated guidelines. The information they control on the ECU and how they control it is different. We have more access to more controls, and far more knowledge than anyone on the market when it comes to that.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
What exactly does the uprev monitor and control that the Cobb cant.
01-07-2010, 06:43 PM
#86
Cobb isn't the same. Flash technique is an industry standard set by government mandated guidelines. The information they control on the ECU and how they control it is different. We have more access to more controls, and far more knowledge than anyone on the market when it comes to that.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
01-10-2010, 01:28 PM
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Thanks for the updates Rich. Here are some pictures let me know what yall think.
Also check out page one for more pics.
Also check out page one for more pics.
Last edited by Kirks06; 01-10-2010 at 10:29 PM.
01-12-2010, 10:12 AM
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Jake I have thought about that as well but I don't know enough about what happened to know if I would have a strong enough case. I hope others on here can chime in with more information on what might have happened to my poor motor. Uprev has been great so far I will keep you updated.
01-12-2010, 10:30 AM
#95
sorry to hear for your loss man. these things happen, i dont have any experience dealing w/ your tuner but i do know its important to do research on who you let under your hood.
i had my car tuned at a place that is well known for their evo's, the owner cut me alot of slack because of my situation and i am very pleased with the work that is provided.
24k is a new engine not even broken in yet and i agree 13 psi for 340 is high and low results. i was @6psi putting down 344, now somewhere around 380 on the same tune.
hopefully things will look up, chin up homie
i had my car tuned at a place that is well known for their evo's, the owner cut me alot of slack because of my situation and i am very pleased with the work that is provided.
24k is a new engine not even broken in yet and i agree 13 psi for 340 is high and low results. i was @6psi putting down 344, now somewhere around 380 on the same tune.
hopefully things will look up, chin up homie
01-12-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by UpRev 
Cobb isn't the same. Flash technique is an industry standard set by government mandated guidelines. The information they control on the ECU and how they control it is different. We have more access to more controls, and far more knowledge than anyone on the market when it comes to that.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
Cobb isn't the same. Flash technique is an industry standard set by government mandated guidelines. The information they control on the ECU and how they control it is different. We have more access to more controls, and far more knowledge than anyone on the market when it comes to that.
There is obviously something wrong with their calculations or the tuner is dangerous. Either way we'll have yet another FI car back on the road and running strong again shortly.
OBD II is a Federal mandate. This is the communication protocol that everyone must use. There is a special series of "Wake-up" Codes and "Transmit" Codes and "Receive" Codes. Just as the dealer has the Consult II and III and we have universal OBD II scanners to pull information and and the dealer also has the capability to "Flash" the ecu although its just a OEM type file.
This is where Uprev comes in. There are millions of lines of code that are strictly in hexi-decimal. OBVIOUSLY Nissan is not going to give the so-called "Map" to navigate how the code integrates and associates to each other.
So it is up to Uprev and Cobb to define what a certain set of values in the millions of lines of codes means. Also they have to know HOW it reacts with other lines of code. If there are modifier tables or they are dealing with a second level map then they are not tuning the BASE portion of the map and thus will always chase their tail sense the other code in the ECU is modifying the table they are trying to tune.
Take the timing map for example. The base map is stable. Its reference points are RPM and something else called the base fuel schedule. This is a theoretical type of value that is based on MANY different inputs. Its is closely associated to the MAF signal but if you are dealing with a bad table (ie not the main table) then it doesnt matter what you reference.
Basically I could go on for hours about this but obviously Uprev either has a more stable understanding of the ECU or Cobb got to aggressive with timing. That motor blew due to timing and there are zero doubts about that. This timing issue could possibly be associated to the fact that they didn't upgrade the MAF sensor which must be upgraded to handle over 5 or 6 PSI. I haven't read every post so they may have done that.
Regardless DJAMPS...I'm tired of your spread of disinformation on the forums. Its a disservice to the community. Do your homework...realize that you don't know nearly as much as you think you do...and please understand that everyone knows that you are going to defend or get defensive about a company that obviously sponsors and allows you to continue to upgrade in this expensive hobby (not Cobb). Its obvious to everyone here that you're diluted...apparently you should catch on soon.
Last edited by AcidJake75; 01-12-2010 at 10:41 AM. Reason: QUOTING UPREVs post
01-12-2010, 10:59 AM
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Actually his post is VERY correct. Apparently you're not as educated as you wish to project to other members of the forum.
OBD II is a Federal mandate. This is the communication protocol that everyone must use. There is a special series of "Wake-up" Codes and "Transmit" Codes and "Receive" Codes. Just as the dealer has the Consult II and III and we have universal OBD II scanners to pull information and and the dealer also has the capability to "Flash" the ecu although its just a OEM type file.
This is where Uprev comes in. There are millions of lines of code that are strictly in hexi-decimal. OBVIOUSLY Nissan is not going to give the so-called "Map" to navigate how the code integrates and associates to each other.
So it is up to Uprev and Cobb to define what a certain set of values in the millions of lines of codes means. Also they have to know HOW it reacts with other lines of code. If there are modifier tables or they are dealing with a second level map then they are not tuning the BASE portion of the map and thus will always chase their tail sense the other code in the ECU is modifying the table they are trying to tune.
Take the timing map for example. The base map is stable. Its reference points are RPM and something else called the base fuel schedule. This is a theoretical type of value that is based on MANY different inputs. Its is closely associated to the MAF signal but if you are dealing with a bad table (ie not the main table) then it doesnt matter what you reference.
Basically I could go on for hours about this but obviously Uprev either has a more stable understanding of the ECU or Cobb got to aggressive with timing. That motor blew due to timing and there are zero doubts about that. This timing issue could possibly be associated to the fact that they didn't upgrade the MAF sensor which must be upgraded to handle over 5 or 6 PSI. I haven't read every post so they may have done that.
OBD II is a Federal mandate. This is the communication protocol that everyone must use. There is a special series of "Wake-up" Codes and "Transmit" Codes and "Receive" Codes. Just as the dealer has the Consult II and III and we have universal OBD II scanners to pull information and and the dealer also has the capability to "Flash" the ecu although its just a OEM type file.
This is where Uprev comes in. There are millions of lines of code that are strictly in hexi-decimal. OBVIOUSLY Nissan is not going to give the so-called "Map" to navigate how the code integrates and associates to each other.
So it is up to Uprev and Cobb to define what a certain set of values in the millions of lines of codes means. Also they have to know HOW it reacts with other lines of code. If there are modifier tables or they are dealing with a second level map then they are not tuning the BASE portion of the map and thus will always chase their tail sense the other code in the ECU is modifying the table they are trying to tune.
Take the timing map for example. The base map is stable. Its reference points are RPM and something else called the base fuel schedule. This is a theoretical type of value that is based on MANY different inputs. Its is closely associated to the MAF signal but if you are dealing with a bad table (ie not the main table) then it doesnt matter what you reference.
Basically I could go on for hours about this but obviously Uprev either has a more stable understanding of the ECU or Cobb got to aggressive with timing. That motor blew due to timing and there are zero doubts about that. This timing issue could possibly be associated to the fact that they didn't upgrade the MAF sensor which must be upgraded to handle over 5 or 6 PSI. I haven't read every post so they may have done that.
Thanks alot for that reply that made alot of sense to me and helped me understand what bits and pieces I have heard/read. It's so hard because I want to know as much as I can so I can tell if someone knows what there doing or not. I just wish it wouldn't have cost me 4 months salary to find out someone you trusted really didn't know what they were doing or weren't careful enough.
Thanks again for your informative posts 
01-12-2010, 11:11 AM
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sorry to hear for your loss man. these things happen, i dont have any experience dealing w/ your tuner but i do know its important to do research on who you let under your hood.
i had my car tuned at a place that is well known for their evo's, the owner cut me alot of slack because of my situation and i am very pleased with the work that is provided.
24k is a new engine not even broken in yet and i agree 13 psi for 340 is high and low results. i was @6psi putting down 344, now somewhere around 380 on the same tune.
hopefully things will look up, chin up homie
i had my car tuned at a place that is well known for their evo's, the owner cut me alot of slack because of my situation and i am very pleased with the work that is provided.
24k is a new engine not even broken in yet and i agree 13 psi for 340 is high and low results. i was @6psi putting down 344, now somewhere around 380 on the same tune.
hopefully things will look up, chin up homie
Keep in mind hes gone the SC route, your engine is TT. Higher boost is expected to make the same power on sc engines
