Longevity of full builds, the good the bad
10-14-2012, 03:39 PM
#361
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Do I have to list my entire build list? I couldn't possibly remember everything I bought.
I spent around 25000 on kit, rebuild($3200 of that) , install, tune, and supporting equipment,
I have halteck and osirus for tunning, cjm stage 2 return system, injector dynamics 1000cc injectors, 340lph pump, catch can , high performance radiator, and a lot more.
I built this engine to handle over 700whp easily. Can u guys please quit sugesting I used some crappy parts. Especially pluggs!!!!!
Two miss matched plugged were installed. Don't ask me how.
If you want complete history of my latest build look at my build thread... Momentum gr3794r build.
I spent around 25000 on kit, rebuild($3200 of that) , install, tune, and supporting equipment,
I have halteck and osirus for tunning, cjm stage 2 return system, injector dynamics 1000cc injectors, 340lph pump, catch can , high performance radiator, and a lot more.
I built this engine to handle over 700whp easily. Can u guys please quit sugesting I used some crappy parts. Especially pluggs!!!!!
Two miss matched plugged were installed. Don't ask me how.
If you want complete history of my latest build look at my build thread... Momentum gr3794r build.
10-14-2012, 03:41 PM
#362
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ipp dosnt actually build anything he sends the engines out, also if you look a bit alot of people have had problems with ipp engines. oil starvation can very well be the builder IE trying to build the engine too tight i still dont understand why people do this. sure detonation can cause it as well by hammering the bearings but we will never know, although looser clearances and thicker oil will be more forgiving to det as well. seeing what others have posted in regards to ipp engines i would say its more then likely multiple failures on multiple people
like cux said most people who post about them complain about them popping, sure there may be some good ones but alot of people post about failures. sorry but if i pay someone im not going to chance that i might get a bad one its easier to simply just go to a place like dynosty or another shop that dosnt have reported failures. at the end of the day ipp might have a bunch we dont see but so does every other shop you go with who has a proven track record and that is not ipp
like cux said most people who post about them complain about them popping, sure there may be some good ones but alot of people post about failures. sorry but if i pay someone im not going to chance that i might get a bad one its easier to simply just go to a place like dynosty or another shop that dosnt have reported failures. at the end of the day ipp might have a bunch we dont see but so does every other shop you go with who has a proven track record and that is not ipp
10-14-2012, 03:55 PM
#364
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Try to comprehend what you read. My sts kit was put on my stock block. Yes I used the kit again when I built my engine but I upgraded turbo, sump pump, and ecu. This was plenty for my power goals at the time.
10-14-2012, 04:05 PM
#365
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This is complicated, the shop I used is covering some of the cost to rebuild. Complete rebuild is costing me $1500. Crank, rods, and cams did not get dammaged.
10-14-2012, 04:42 PM
#366
can you explain how two mismatched plugs caused the engine to be destroyed? like i said stock heat range have no issues until 600 to the wheels, even then i could have kept going with a little less timing i promise you it wasnt the plugs unless dude was doing some crazy **** and forcing plugs that dont fit in somehow. mismatched isnt going to bother it either, i have 4 plugs that are 2 steps colder and 2 stock heat range right now because i fouled two and need to clean them.
you definitely had something else going on
people are suggesting you used crap parts because you went with ipp instead of paying for it to be done correctly because ipp is one of the cheapest places hell it cost me 4500 and i did most the work myself AND my rods where used and spent the $50 to make sure they where good. new parts plus a good shop build it and i would have been looking at 6k theres alot of money tied up in making sure clearances are good.
people are also suggesting you used crap parts because you went with one of the worst turbo kits for the car, even if you upgraded some stuff it dosnt change the fact the rest of the kit is still crap and you would have been better off with one of numerous other good kits. like buying the TN kit, sure you can upgrade it but its still crap unless you pretty much rebuild the whole kit, then its not a TN kit anymore its a custom kit.
bottom line, from the experiences on here, i would be willing to bet 60-70% of the failures on here are from the engine being built improperly, heck one of the reports was the engine block had more material removed from the rear then the front when it was decked causing the rear pistons to stick out and the front ones to still be under the deck. that tells me whoever they use either is just churning out engines as fast as possible and not actually blueprinting them or dosnt have the correct equipment(doubtful) either way it screams dont use that builder.
you can dislike what i say all you want i dont really care the point is you dont go buy a lambo then stick ebay turbos on it and have earl down the street build it, then get upset when it fails on you. sure you have alot invested but its that one or two things you cheaped out on that killed you, i can go on all day with examples but you should get my point, you had a sts kit and ipp engine, either way you did cheap out on some parts and thats what hurt you.
you definitely had something else going on
people are suggesting you used crap parts because you went with ipp instead of paying for it to be done correctly because ipp is one of the cheapest places hell it cost me 4500 and i did most the work myself AND my rods where used and spent the $50 to make sure they where good. new parts plus a good shop build it and i would have been looking at 6k theres alot of money tied up in making sure clearances are good.
people are also suggesting you used crap parts because you went with one of the worst turbo kits for the car, even if you upgraded some stuff it dosnt change the fact the rest of the kit is still crap and you would have been better off with one of numerous other good kits. like buying the TN kit, sure you can upgrade it but its still crap unless you pretty much rebuild the whole kit, then its not a TN kit anymore its a custom kit.
bottom line, from the experiences on here, i would be willing to bet 60-70% of the failures on here are from the engine being built improperly, heck one of the reports was the engine block had more material removed from the rear then the front when it was decked causing the rear pistons to stick out and the front ones to still be under the deck. that tells me whoever they use either is just churning out engines as fast as possible and not actually blueprinting them or dosnt have the correct equipment(doubtful) either way it screams dont use that builder.
you can dislike what i say all you want i dont really care the point is you dont go buy a lambo then stick ebay turbos on it and have earl down the street build it, then get upset when it fails on you. sure you have alot invested but its that one or two things you cheaped out on that killed you, i can go on all day with examples but you should get my point, you had a sts kit and ipp engine, either way you did cheap out on some parts and thats what hurt you.
Do I have to list my entire build list? I couldn't possibly remember everything I bought.
I spent around 25000 on kit, rebuild($3200 of that) , install, tune, and supporting equipment,
I have halteck and osirus for tunning, cjm stage 2 return system, injector dynamics 1000cc injectors, 340lph pump, catch can , high performance radiator, and a lot more.
I built this engine to handle over 700whp easily. Can u guys please quit sugesting I used some crappy parts. Especially pluggs!!!!!
Two miss matched plugged were installed. Don't ask me how.
If you want complete history of my latest build look at my build thread... Momentum gr3794r build.
I spent around 25000 on kit, rebuild($3200 of that) , install, tune, and supporting equipment,
I have halteck and osirus for tunning, cjm stage 2 return system, injector dynamics 1000cc injectors, 340lph pump, catch can , high performance radiator, and a lot more.
I built this engine to handle over 700whp easily. Can u guys please quit sugesting I used some crappy parts. Especially pluggs!!!!!
Two miss matched plugged were installed. Don't ask me how.
If you want complete history of my latest build look at my build thread... Momentum gr3794r build.
Last edited by jerryd87; 10-14-2012 at 04:53 PM.
10-14-2012, 06:11 PM
#367
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can you explain how two mismatched plugs caused the engine to be destroyed? like i said stock heat range have no issues until 600 to the wheels, even then i could have kept going with a little less timing i promise you it wasnt the plugs unless dude was doing some crazy **** and forcing plugs that dont fit in somehow. mismatched isnt going to bother it either, i have 4 plugs that are 2 steps colder and 2 stock heat range right now because i fouled two and need to clean them.
you definitely had something else going on
people are suggesting you used crap parts because you went with
p ipp instead of paying for it to be done correctly because ipp is one of the cheapest places hell it cost me 4500 and i did most the work myself AND my rods where used and spent the $50 to make sure they where good. new parts plus a good shop build it and i would have been looking at 6k theres alot of money tied up in making sure clearances are good.
people are also suggesting you used crap parts because you went with one of the worst turbo kits for the car, even if you upgraded some stuff it dosnt change the fact the rest of the kit is still crap and you would have been better off with one of numerous other good kits. like buying the TN kit, sure you can upgrade it but its still crap unless you pretty much rebuild the whole kit, then its not a TN kit anymore its a custom kit.
bottom line, from the experiences on here, i would be willing to bet 60-70% of the failures on here are from the engine being built improperly, heck one of the reports was the engine block had more material removed from the rear then the front when it was decked causing the rear pistons to stick out and the front ones to still be under the deck. that tells me whoever they use either is just churning out engines as fast as possible and not actually blueprinting them or dosnt have the correct equipment(doubtful) either way it screams dont use that builder.
you can dislike what i say all you want i dont really care the point is you dont go buy a lambo then stick ebay turbos on it and have earl down the street build it, then get upset when it fails on you. sure you have alot invested but its that one or two things you cheaped out on that killed you, i can go on all day with examples but you should get my point, you had a sts kit and ipp engine, either way you did cheap out on some parts and thats what hurt you.
you definitely had something else going on
people are suggesting you used crap parts because you went with
p ipp instead of paying for it to be done correctly because ipp is one of the cheapest places hell it cost me 4500 and i did most the work myself AND my rods where used and spent the $50 to make sure they where good. new parts plus a good shop build it and i would have been looking at 6k theres alot of money tied up in making sure clearances are good.
people are also suggesting you used crap parts because you went with one of the worst turbo kits for the car, even if you upgraded some stuff it dosnt change the fact the rest of the kit is still crap and you would have been better off with one of numerous other good kits. like buying the TN kit, sure you can upgrade it but its still crap unless you pretty much rebuild the whole kit, then its not a TN kit anymore its a custom kit.
bottom line, from the experiences on here, i would be willing to bet 60-70% of the failures on here are from the engine being built improperly, heck one of the reports was the engine block had more material removed from the rear then the front when it was decked causing the rear pistons to stick out and the front ones to still be under the deck. that tells me whoever they use either is just churning out engines as fast as possible and not actually blueprinting them or dosnt have the correct equipment(doubtful) either way it screams dont use that builder.
you can dislike what i say all you want i dont really care the point is you dont go buy a lambo then stick ebay turbos on it and have earl down the street build it, then get upset when it fails on you. sure you have alot invested but its that one or two things you cheaped out on that killed you, i can go on all day with examples but you should get my point, you had a sts kit and ipp engine, either way you did cheap out on some parts and thats what hurt you.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
10-14-2012, 06:27 PM
#368
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Your crazy for useing stock plugs if your making any real power. I hope your not putting it into boost while u wait or you might find out how wrong you are.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
Last edited by nway2deepagain; 10-14-2012 at 06:30 PM.
10-14-2012, 06:33 PM
#369
stock plugs probably would be fine if you're spraying massive amounts of meth like jerry is. my build was 2700+ and i provided the rods, pistons block a set of bearings (which dynosty got rid of and replaced with a custom set) (that doesnt include the new core that i got and the remachining on it).
to me if you're spending what i did for assembly/machining for the whole kit, somethings not going to be right.
to me if you're spending what i did for assembly/machining for the whole kit, somethings not going to be right.
Your crazy for useing stock plugs if your making any real power. I hope your not putting it into boost while u wait or you might find out how wrong you are.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
Last edited by Resmarted; 10-14-2012 at 06:41 PM.
10-14-2012, 06:46 PM
#370
at 20 psi stock plugs actually show optimal heat range with my meth, ill admit im running a shitload but im also on 8.0:1 compression. you could easily run higher with less timing. again tuning probably did have something to do with it but saying "my engine failed from spark plugs) is probably bs your going to have to fun it awhile in that power level to cause that big a problem. colder plugs definitely help i wont doubt that and i like my 2 steps colder they only fouled because im running way to rich but i dont drive my car enough lately to tune, damn 14 hour work days. but they arnt magical your going to end up with a preignition issue from too hot a plug before you detonate from them.
and resmarted im only spraying 18 gph of meth above 13 psi boost
and resmarted im only spraying 18 gph of meth above 13 psi boost
Your crazy for useing stock plugs if your making any real power. I hope your not putting it into boost while u wait or you might find out how wrong you are.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
Again, you need to listen to what you read. I never said my engine was destroyed on this build. I'm talking about my latest failer(with momentum kit and ipp recomended shop.) Analysis from machine shop is...two pistons damaged. One showed sieghns of a lean condition and the other one showed signs of detination. Had some ring damage ( did not damage cylinder wall) and bearings had to be replaced too.
I know where the problem lies with my other two builds and I asure you the engine a nd the parts I used had N.o.t.h.I.n.g to do with either failer.
Sts kits do what they are DESIGNED to do. The only part on a sts kit that is sub par and should be replaced is the sump pump. People buy these kits to mildly boost stock engines. And that's how I started.
Yes when I built the engine I should have just went to another kit right then, ill admit that. But my failer that time was due to the tune. Way to long of a story and I'm horrible typewriter so just trust me when I say parts or engine had nothing to do with it.
10-14-2012, 06:51 PM
#371
furthermore to what jerry said, youd need pretty bad det for bearings to fail. sometimes machine shops say it was detonation to cover up bad bearing installs. what would have been good and conclusive is if you got them to mic up the good bearings to see if they were properly clearanced.
10-15-2012, 10:24 AM
#372
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Detination was pretty bad . When I took it too my new shop here, the owner( who will be my new builder/tuned.) Took.a test drive with me and he backed off of it the very first time he put it in boost and said you have some pretty bad det happening.
Suprizingly when he later put it on the dyno it didn't detonate.
I knew something was wrong with the tune but my tuner in Texas did not diagnose or fix the problem.
Car was hesitating, stumbleing,going into boost sometimes.
I was told it was the ecu switching to boost.
Car was also showing signs of crank case pressure... Oil comming up through the breather.
Instald oil catch can.
Shortly after that I.developed another oil leak. ( still in tx, I'm thier to pick up my car)
Was told it was just a bad fitting.
Drove the car about ten miles to load it on my furniture van.
When I unloaded the car when I got to Utah thier was a puddle of oil on the floor.
Made sure car had enough oil then drove it to my house ( about 5miles)
Car sat until I took it to my new tuner.
When I sent the engine back to tx my tuner there said it had two miss matched plugged in it.
I think the tune was bad in the first place making the damage worse.
The crankcase pressure was caused from a dammaged ring, by the time I drove to my new tuner in Utah. I'll was starting to leak from many places.
Suprizingly when he later put it on the dyno it didn't detonate.
I knew something was wrong with the tune but my tuner in Texas did not diagnose or fix the problem.
Car was hesitating, stumbleing,going into boost sometimes.
I was told it was the ecu switching to boost.
Car was also showing signs of crank case pressure... Oil comming up through the breather.
Instald oil catch can.
Shortly after that I.developed another oil leak. ( still in tx, I'm thier to pick up my car)
Was told it was just a bad fitting.
Drove the car about ten miles to load it on my furniture van.
When I unloaded the car when I got to Utah thier was a puddle of oil on the floor.
Made sure car had enough oil then drove it to my house ( about 5miles)
Car sat until I took it to my new tuner.
When I sent the engine back to tx my tuner there said it had two miss matched plugged in it.
I think the tune was bad in the first place making the damage worse.
The crankcase pressure was caused from a dammaged ring, by the time I drove to my new tuner in Utah. I'll was starting to leak from many places.
10-15-2012, 10:37 AM
#374
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Basicly the car was detinating and had two miss matched plugs. Only two pistons were damaged. Can't match the plugs to to the cylinders anymore but I don't think its just a coensidance.
10-15-2012, 12:10 PM
#376
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If that wasn't the cause then it was the tune.
Either way it was shop error not mechanicle.
10-15-2012, 12:15 PM
#377
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Another possibility is that some debri got into the fuel system clogging two injectors. that would be tuner error too imo.
Last edited by nway2deepagain; 10-15-2012 at 12:20 PM.
10-15-2012, 01:49 PM
#378
If you had an injector clog up from crap in the fuel, that means you didn't have a fuel filter, and you didn't have a proper oil ventilation system either.
You really can't just blame your tuner, IMO the person you have to blame most is yourself. If the tuner didn't put the car together he is even less to blame. Just like vinny ten's now famous video stated, you got a half *** build put together and now you have to pay double just to fix it.
Aftermarket cars you can't just hobble parts together, especially these vq35's.
Like cux suggested, corners were cut all over the place here. I wouldn't call you out like this, but you seem to push the blame on others where you really need to realize this is your car, and your responsibility. You need to learn what everything does, what fails, and how to fix all that. Or pay someone who KNOWS what they're doing to do it all for you.
I suggest before you try cranking that thing over again with ANOTHER new motor, you take a long while and learn everything you can about this platform and properly boosting it.
Furthermore, you said you had a top of the line build aside from the block, which is why we basically narrow it down to your block being at fault. Id say for the last build of your engine the block wasn't at fault, but on the previous ones, I would be willing to bet you got oil starvation from wrong clearances.
Last edited by Resmarted; 10-15-2012 at 01:52 PM.
