Forged Performance - My Story
04-19-2010, 05:45 AM
#221
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I'll try to make this brief, but unless there is a Federal Statute on point (there may or may not be, I have not looked), Georgia law will be applicable. The law in Georgia may be different than the law in Texas or the law in whatever state go-fast works/lives. So unless you or your respective Attorneys researched Georgia law pertaining to this particular issue, you really don't know.
Moreover, this is a fairly complicated fact pattern and to really know what the outcome will be, each issue must be researched in light of the applicable case law. I see no reason why you would have paid your Attorneys to do this, but who knows.
Finally, the OP has indicated that he has an Attorney and is following that Attorney's advice. That is exactly what he should do. His Attorney likely has looked at the facts in this matter, researached the applicable Georgia statutes and case law, and is guiding his client based on that research. For him to take the advice of non-Attorneys on this forum in lieu of listening to his own Attorney would be plain nuts.
Moreover, this is a fairly complicated fact pattern and to really know what the outcome will be, each issue must be researched in light of the applicable case law. I see no reason why you would have paid your Attorneys to do this, but who knows.
Finally, the OP has indicated that he has an Attorney and is following that Attorney's advice. That is exactly what he should do. His Attorney likely has looked at the facts in this matter, researached the applicable Georgia statutes and case law, and is guiding his client based on that research. For him to take the advice of non-Attorneys on this forum in lieu of listening to his own Attorney would be plain nuts.
he made the wrong moves listening to sam and time will tell where it ends up,but all the legal ease you can muster doesn't change the fact that he didn't give sharif a chance to rectify the problem.
sharif had monkey's working on his car but the real slime is gtm for siezing the opportunity to slam competition and secure a new car in his bay with little concern for the op's wallet.
both shops fail
04-19-2010, 05:50 AM
#222
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I'll try to make this brief, but unless there is a Federal Statute on point (there may or may not be, I have not looked), Georgia law will be applicable. The law in Georgia may be different than the law in Texas or the law in whatever state go-fast works/lives. So unless you or your respective Attorneys researched Georgia law pertaining to this particular issue, and with these particular facts, you really don't know.
Moreover, this is a fairly complicated fact pattern and to really know what the outcome will be, each issue must be researched in light of the applicable case law. I see no reason why you would have paid your Attorneys to do this, but who knows.
Finally, the OP has indicated that he has an Attorney and is following that Attorney's advice. That is exactly what he should do. His Attorney likely has looked at the facts in this matter, researached the applicable Georgia statutes and case law, and is guiding his client based on that research. For him to take the advice of non-Attorneys on this forum in lieu of listening to his own Attorney would be plain nuts.
Moreover, this is a fairly complicated fact pattern and to really know what the outcome will be, each issue must be researched in light of the applicable case law. I see no reason why you would have paid your Attorneys to do this, but who knows.
Finally, the OP has indicated that he has an Attorney and is following that Attorney's advice. That is exactly what he should do. His Attorney likely has looked at the facts in this matter, researached the applicable Georgia statutes and case law, and is guiding his client based on that research. For him to take the advice of non-Attorneys on this forum in lieu of listening to his own Attorney would be plain nuts.
......I am not speaking out of my rear end. I am not afraid to ask questions when I don't know something.... You see me do it on here all the.... I don't have that kind of an ego. I never said it was an open and shut case either way.... Or if it will ever go to court.... I am telling the OP from experience that the only winners will be the attorneys.
04-19-2010, 05:56 AM
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as soon as sam took delivery of this car the op's hand was forced to seek legal.if he posted that trash build sharif (i'm assuming) would fall all over himself to make him a happy clam.do you think an attorney called after it's too late is gonna refuse this guy's money?
he made the wrong moves listening to sam and time will tell where it ends up,but all the legal ease you can muster doesn't change the fact that he didn't give sharif a chance to rectify the problem.
sharif had monkey's working on his car but the real slime is gtm for siezing the opportunity to slam competition and secure a new car in his bay with little concern for the op's wallet.
both shops fail
he made the wrong moves listening to sam and time will tell where it ends up,but all the legal ease you can muster doesn't change the fact that he didn't give sharif a chance to rectify the problem.
sharif had monkey's working on his car but the real slime is gtm for siezing the opportunity to slam competition and secure a new car in his bay with little concern for the op's wallet.
both shops fail
Well it looks like I don't have to post anymore... Go-Fast will take it from here
fact is fact OP....Go-fast is correct... You had Sharif by the *****! If Sharif had refused to make things right...THEN you make your move.... Been there done that.
Last edited by XKR; 04-19-2010 at 06:01 AM.
04-19-2010, 06:00 AM
#224
Well Terry.... I don't have to pay for such info because as I have stated before .... They are paid to sit on their azzes.....so I gave him something to do.......I am not speaking out of my rear end. I am not afraid to ask questions when I don't know something.... You see me do it on here all the.... I don't have that kind of an ego. I never said it was an open and shut case either way.... Or if it will ever go to court.... I am telling the OP from experience that the only winners will be the attorneys.
......I am not speaking out of my rear end. I am not afraid to ask questions when I don't know something.... You see me do it on here all the.... I don't have that kind of an ego. I never said it was an open and shut case either way.... Or if it will ever go to court.... I am telling the OP from experience that the only winners will be the attorneys.
04-19-2010, 06:03 AM
#225
You have said the exact thing my lawyer said.....this is why I am hinting to the OP to sit back and let the shops (GTM/FP) take of it. It's not that I am siding with FP.... I have made my point clear....but in the court if law the judge will not care what he thinks FP did... They will look more at what's presented. Been there done that.
So does that mean your lawyer is correct as with this other guy or maybe he was wrong as with this guy? Lawyers are like anyone else when it comes to opinions.
Eric.... The Recon Unit is not letting Sharif off the hook on this one....by no means.I have been very hard on him off line... And I say off line because I want to limit what I say on here because I am too busy to be dragged in to court as a witness over something like this... Because I am telling you if I am.... It will cost whoever calls me in!!!! So leave me out!!
I have said it many times... The customer was wronged. There is talk of fraud .... You have people on both sides of the fence on that one. If a used was sold as new... Then you have a case....but you sit both those turbos in front if a judge and he will not know the difference. Even I who will know more than the judge when all is said is left scratching my head. To prove fraud in a case like this ... You will need more than this. As far as charges....if one shop charges 5k and another charges 10k for the same job... Can this be considered fraud in court... Not a chance.
It doesn't matter what one shop charges. If you agree to the prices then it is ok. However if you agree to the prices of set parts and labor to be done and different parts show up even after asking 2-3 times as with the labor not being done right. Now you have issues. If I hire someone to build a house and they build something out of spec that the doors wont even shut, is that my problem because the builder did what they could to the best of their knowledge? On top of that you paid for Brand A windows at $100.00 a pop but were sold Brand G windows for $100.00 even if they're the same price and same quality doesn't the person who is paying for the job have the right to get what he specifically asked for unless otherwise agreed upon?
In the court of My350z it would be easier to find him guilty... But that's not where court will be held.Should Sharif have made a mistake like this ? Hell no! Was it a mistake? That's for the courts to decide. If this was discover a few years later if one of the turbos failed... FP would still have to change it out for free....
That's like not knowing any better about cars and buying a honda civic for 10K and getting a toyota corolla of the same price, both are worth the same KBB wise and 3 years later issues come up. because the dealership is willing to warranty it, does that make it ok? Again 1 dollar is no different then 1000 or 10000.
Yes this is a simple turbo housing big deal but it doesnt matter. It is what it is, not the correct part. Where the fraud really comes in is how the OP paid for a stage 2 kit and believes he got a stage 1 kit if that is the case then this isn't about a small difference in the housing.
All we can do is watch to see if they clean up... The eyes are on not only FP.... But on all shops that would do this kind of subpar work.
Go-fast knows what he is talking about... Let's leave it at that.
Yes you have the law on your side... But so does Sharif. But in this case there will be two losers.I am trying to in so many words to slide you some free advise... I have been where you are at now.... Not with FP though....but I have been where you are at. Key word "Reasonable Doubt"....
There's no real winner because it has been a total waste of time. for the OP. Even if he wins this case, gets labor cost removed as with any parts that had to be replaced due to the hack job, he'll still lose for the down time and foot work.
It's not like this is a murder case where you get your lawyer for free... A District Attorney! And from what I know you are not a lawyer either... Neither am I ... But I have a few that work for me....So take it to court... You may get lucky... But in the end only the lawyers win.I won my case against a large tire store.... But I spent over 150k to get what??
Last edited by jeffie7; 04-19-2010 at 06:06 AM.
04-19-2010, 06:08 AM
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I have said too much already.
04-19-2010, 06:15 AM
#227
Don't misunderstand me Terry..... I was not doing this to help Sharif or the OP..... I wanted to know what's up before posting on here. It will all boil down to luck on getting the right judge and presentation ....the turbo thing? It won't hold up ... Unless someone heard Sharif or can get him to admit...
I have said too much already.
I have said too much already.
As I tell people who do things slightly wrong on their taxes, I hear the, oh its no big deal because its just a few bucks, if they want to say I cant do that and ask for their money I'll give it to them. Little do they know it can open up a flood gate for every year leading up to that year on every little detail of their tax returns to see if they're shaving anything else off.
It's always the little things that seem like no big deal that get people screwed.
04-19-2010, 06:43 AM
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If the invoice shows 1 turbo and he clearly has pictures and documentation that he got a different turbo it opens up a big can of worms for what else was over looked.
As I tell people who do things slightly wrong on their taxes, I hear the, oh its no big deal because its just a few bucks, if they want to say I cant do that and ask for their money I'll give it to them. Little do they know it can open up a flood gate for every year leading up to that year on every little detail of their tax returns to see if they're shaving anything else off.
It's always the little things that seem like no big deal that get people screwed.
As I tell people who do things slightly wrong on their taxes, I hear the, oh its no big deal because its just a few bucks, if they want to say I cant do that and ask for their money I'll give it to them. Little do they know it can open up a flood gate for every year leading up to that year on every little detail of their tax returns to see if they're shaving anything else off.
It's always the little things that seem like no big deal that get people screwed.
As far as my thoughts on the turbo thing....I will wait to see where this ends up before commenting....Feel free to bring it back up after all this has come to a close. I am in the middle and will not help either side.
04-19-2010, 06:47 AM
#229
Don't misunderstand me Terry..... I was not doing this to help Sharif or the OP..... I wanted to know what's up before posting on here. It will all boil down to luck on getting the right judge and presentation ....the turbo thing? It won't hold up ... Unless someone heard Sharif or can get him to admit...
I have said too much already.
I have said too much already.
04-19-2010, 06:51 AM
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I stand by my recommendation. The OP should follow the advice of his Attorney. If he has any reason to doubt the competence of his Attorney, then he should seek a new Attorney. Given the state of matters, there is no way the OP should proceed without proper legal representation.
Ps: typing on an iPad is easier than typing on an iPhone
04-19-2010, 06:54 AM
#233
I always get a chuckle (at best) when shops crew up, and send customers home with an incomplete car/hack job/whatever you call it, and then expect the customer to return so they can fix all issues.
I dont know about most of you but when I feel as if my car wasnt given the right amount of time/attention AND I paid good money for parts/labor/etc, then if what I had delivered isnt what I wanted my car isnt going back again. These builds arent cheap, when you are talking $10/20/30/40K+ on a stock block TT "build" to full builds these shops have better get it right the first time. Of course I dont mean everything must be perfect we know things can and do go wrong but the $hit in this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
I dont know about most of you but when I feel as if my car wasnt given the right amount of time/attention AND I paid good money for parts/labor/etc, then if what I had delivered isnt what I wanted my car isnt going back again. These builds arent cheap, when you are talking $10/20/30/40K+ on a stock block TT "build" to full builds these shops have better get it right the first time. Of course I dont mean everything must be perfect we know things can and do go wrong but the $hit in this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
04-19-2010, 07:04 AM
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... And a little to do with Jeffs post. I am just making it clear that I would be a witness that would hurt both sides....I always get a chuckle (at best) when shops crew up, and send customers home with an incomplete car/hack job/whatever you call it, and then expect the customer to return so they can fix all issues.
I dont know about most of you but when I feel as if my car wasnt given the right amount of time/attention AND I paid good money for parts/labor/etc, then if what I had delivered isnt what I wanted my car isnt going back again. These builds arent cheap, when you are talking $10/20/30/40K+ on a stock block TT "build" to full builds these shops have better get it right the first time. Of course I dont mean everything must be perfect we know things can and do go wrong but the $hit in this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
I dont know about most of you but when I feel as if my car wasnt given the right amount of time/attention AND I paid good money for parts/labor/etc, then if what I had delivered isnt what I wanted my car isnt going back again. These builds arent cheap, when you are talking $10/20/30/40K+ on a stock block TT "build" to full builds these shops have better get it right the first time. Of course I dont mean everything must be perfect we know things can and do go wrong but the $hit in this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
I would have taken it back to FP and give them one chance to fix it... One chance only.
I agree Alberto.... To pay this kind of money and get less than a perfect result is not acceptable !!!!! I don't care who you are.... You take my money.... I expect the best result.
Last edited by XKR; 04-19-2010 at 07:20 AM.
04-19-2010, 07:12 AM
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I always get a chuckle (at best) when shops crew up, and send customers home with an incomplete car/hack job/whatever you call it, and then expect the customer to return so they can fix all issues.
I dont know about most of you but when I feel as if my car wasnt given the right amount of time/attention AND I paid good money for parts/labor/etc, then if what I had delivered isnt what I wanted my car isnt going back again. These builds arent cheap, when you are talking $10/20/30/40K+ on a stock block TT "build" to full builds these shops have better get it right the first time. Of course I dont mean everything must be perfect we know things can and do go wrong but the $hit in this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
I dont know about most of you but when I feel as if my car wasnt given the right amount of time/attention AND I paid good money for parts/labor/etc, then if what I had delivered isnt what I wanted my car isnt going back again. These builds arent cheap, when you are talking $10/20/30/40K+ on a stock block TT "build" to full builds these shops have better get it right the first time. Of course I dont mean everything must be perfect we know things can and do go wrong but the $hit in this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
And I think you misread the post above. I read it as him saying that if Sharif decides to try and (to quote you) "run this through the court systems until his {referencing OP} pockets ran dry" it would backfire on Sharif and be bad for him.
But, Mike, I do have to say that you are certainly coming off as defending Sharif and non-neutral in this situation. At least from where I sit. Interjecting conjecture that this looks like a "shake down" (said on multiple occasions) is certainly not neutral and has no basis in any facts presented thus far.
Last edited by stormcrow; 04-19-2010 at 07:22 AM.
04-19-2010, 07:22 AM
#236
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+1. And then there are those who think that there is some legal precedent that you must or you lose your case.
I think the odds of you being called as a witness in this case for either side are ZERO.
And I think you misread the post above. I read it as him saying that if Sharif decides to try and (to quote you) "run this through the court systems until his {referencing OP} pockets ran dry" it would backfire on Sharif and be bad for him.
04-19-2010, 08:01 AM
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Here is my opinion. Again, just an opinion.
Based on what we know about GTM and Sharif, they do a lot of business together.
We all have heard of fitment issues with GTM kits. That's old news but seems easily overlooked here.
I think Forged had to do a lot of "massaging" to this kit to get it to fit. The problem here (again from what I have read), all of this should have been explained to the customer (and maybe it was but do to the pending lawsuit the customer "forgot"). At any rate, the missing bolts, clips, etc were something that should have been caught. No excuse for that and Sharif has admitted that. Again, just an opinion.
Now since Forged and GTM do so much business together maybe they kept fitment issues "hush hush" so GTM didn't get any or anymore bad rep about it. The problem is now that all these other little things Forged messed up on (missing bolts, clips, etc) it now looks like it wasn't bad fitment of the GTM kit but that it was ALL Forged's issue. Again, just an opinion.
Since Forged and GTM are no longer doing business together you see GTM blaming everything on Forged. I think this is because there is enough evidence of poor work on the customers car (missing clips, etc) to blame everything on Forged. They have nothing to loose now and can protect their name with little effort. Why not right? Forged decided to stick their neck out and keep fitment issues with the kit from the customer and since the customer is going after Forged, they can just add to the fire. Again, just an opinion.
As a business owner I see why Sharif probably stood his ground on this. The customer filed a chargeback with his credit card company for the build. So the customer had $8,000.00 or more of actual "merchandise/product" on the car but yet attempted to get their money back! We aren't talking about the "service" which by the way is never refundable by a credit card company. Either way, Sharif had no choice but to respond and fight the chargeback because you can't just tell the credit card company "Go ahead and refund his card for 50% of the purchase. It's all or nothing. Again, just an opinion.
While you can't make everyone happy, all the time, you still see that Forged has one of the best reputations of all performance shops. I feel that this situation could have been handled better by the customer and by Forged. Again, just an opinion.
Once again, based on all the information we know about Forged's work and GTM reputation on kits, I have to believe Forged is taking the fall for the entire thing instead of just missing clips and stuff. Again, just an opinion.
This is my opinion of this situation and I hope anyone that reads this post and thread can keep an open mind.
Based on what we know about GTM and Sharif, they do a lot of business together.
We all have heard of fitment issues with GTM kits. That's old news but seems easily overlooked here.
I think Forged had to do a lot of "massaging" to this kit to get it to fit. The problem here (again from what I have read), all of this should have been explained to the customer (and maybe it was but do to the pending lawsuit the customer "forgot"). At any rate, the missing bolts, clips, etc were something that should have been caught. No excuse for that and Sharif has admitted that. Again, just an opinion.
Now since Forged and GTM do so much business together maybe they kept fitment issues "hush hush" so GTM didn't get any or anymore bad rep about it. The problem is now that all these other little things Forged messed up on (missing bolts, clips, etc) it now looks like it wasn't bad fitment of the GTM kit but that it was ALL Forged's issue. Again, just an opinion.
Since Forged and GTM are no longer doing business together you see GTM blaming everything on Forged. I think this is because there is enough evidence of poor work on the customers car (missing clips, etc) to blame everything on Forged. They have nothing to loose now and can protect their name with little effort. Why not right? Forged decided to stick their neck out and keep fitment issues with the kit from the customer and since the customer is going after Forged, they can just add to the fire. Again, just an opinion.
As a business owner I see why Sharif probably stood his ground on this. The customer filed a chargeback with his credit card company for the build. So the customer had $8,000.00 or more of actual "merchandise/product" on the car but yet attempted to get their money back! We aren't talking about the "service" which by the way is never refundable by a credit card company. Either way, Sharif had no choice but to respond and fight the chargeback because you can't just tell the credit card company "Go ahead and refund his card for 50% of the purchase. It's all or nothing. Again, just an opinion.
While you can't make everyone happy, all the time, you still see that Forged has one of the best reputations of all performance shops. I feel that this situation could have been handled better by the customer and by Forged. Again, just an opinion.
Once again, based on all the information we know about Forged's work and GTM reputation on kits, I have to believe Forged is taking the fall for the entire thing instead of just missing clips and stuff. Again, just an opinion.
This is my opinion of this situation and I hope anyone that reads this post and thread can keep an open mind.
Last edited by GAMERMODZoCOM; 04-19-2010 at 08:03 AM.
04-19-2010, 08:40 AM
#238
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the bill does look like one and who tried to "black mail" by settling for a lower cost of else the thread goes public shoudl be the one with the lawsuit.... not hte customer. But having said that, the customer shoudl get his car back and considerations(such as some parts free to cover costs) for extreme long car rental, shipping fees.
like he has options.....
this thing was over before it started,as soon as the car was delivered to sam this guy lost his case.he'll spend an a$$load on an attorney to only have the judge explain to him he did not give sharif a chance to correct the issues.
everyone involved knows this but the op,he will lose and sam will hand him the bill regardless and he'll de double banged......and if you think gtm didn't know this before loading your car on the transport you can consider yourself informed.
history repeats itself around here and nobody learns.
this thing was over before it started,as soon as the car was delivered to sam this guy lost his case.he'll spend an a$$load on an attorney to only have the judge explain to him he did not give sharif a chance to correct the issues.
everyone involved knows this but the op,he will lose and sam will hand him the bill regardless and he'll de double banged......and if you think gtm didn't know this before loading your car on the transport you can consider yourself informed.
history repeats itself around here and nobody learns.
as soon as sam took delivery of this car the op's hand was forced to seek legal.if he posted that trash build sharif (i'm assuming) would fall all over himself to make him a happy clam.do you think an attorney called after it's too late is gonna refuse this guy's money?
he made the wrong moves listening to sam and time will tell where it ends up,but all the legal ease you can muster doesn't change the fact that he didn't give sharif a chance to rectify the problem.
sharif had monkey's working on his car but the real slime is gtm for siezing the opportunity to slam competition and secure a new car in his bay with little concern for the op's wallet.
both shops fail
he made the wrong moves listening to sam and time will tell where it ends up,but all the legal ease you can muster doesn't change the fact that he didn't give sharif a chance to rectify the problem.
sharif had monkey's working on his car but the real slime is gtm for siezing the opportunity to slam competition and secure a new car in his bay with little concern for the op's wallet.
both shops fail
Originally Posted by XKR
...I am just making it clear that I would be a witness that would hurt both sides....
Originally Posted by alberto
this build is embarrassing for the Z community not just FP.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
I cant think of another business where $30K+ gets you subpar work as often as in the car industry.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 04-19-2010 at 08:45 AM.
04-19-2010, 08:48 AM
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pussification is the last thing you should get out of this thread....
the bill does look like one and who tried to "black mail" by settling for a lower cost of else the thread goes public shoudl be the one with the lawsuit.... not hte customer. But having said that, the customer shoudl get his car back and considerations(such as some parts free to cover costs) for extreme long car rental, shipping fees.
i am not expert, but looking at past cases this seems to be the norm. I understand the OPs point of "why would you take the car back to the shop again", but he didn't take it back, and then took the wrong advice from Sam on this for how to proceed...plus you would think the manufacturer would tell his dealer at least that the customer brought a car in for him to fix it and to start working things out......its all bad on forged for the kind of work done no question, but its obvious when snake decide to take advantage off situation.. Not the 1st time hes been dancing around this issue and he knew exactly what he would be getting.
^^ this.
wait a couple of years....or heck just wait 4 more!
the bill does look like one and who tried to "black mail" by settling for a lower cost of else the thread goes public shoudl be the one with the lawsuit.... not hte customer. But having said that, the customer shoudl get his car back and considerations(such as some parts free to cover costs) for extreme long car rental, shipping fees.
i am not expert, but looking at past cases this seems to be the norm. I understand the OPs point of "why would you take the car back to the shop again", but he didn't take it back, and then took the wrong advice from Sam on this for how to proceed...plus you would think the manufacturer would tell his dealer at least that the customer brought a car in for him to fix it and to start working things out......its all bad on forged for the kind of work done no question, but its obvious when snake decide to take advantage off situation.. Not the 1st time hes been dancing around this issue and he knew exactly what he would be getting.
^^ this.
wait a couple of years....or heck just wait 4 more!
XKR since u speak with ur lawyer so you much you MUST know how lawyers work. Psssh we all know lawyers take out every penny as possible with ridiculous claims as "pain and suffering blah blah blah" crap. There is no reason as to why OP shouldnt get more (and buttloads more) than just his car fixed. He's had to deal with a lot of crap from this hackjob FP did and to have them mess up and then taken to court and be told "ok we'll here's ur 2nd chance to get it right" is unfair. Personally I wouldnt wanna give a shop a 2nd chance to butcher it even more if they couldnt get it even CLOSE the first time. The poor job would scare anyone to go back to the same shop to get it fixed.
04-19-2010, 10:01 AM
#240
I would like to see the applicable statute and/or case law that states that the OP is required to return the car to FP before taking it elsewhere. Maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't, but I have not seen anyone asserting this to be the case back it up with a link or citation to the controlling law.