I wish I coulda had a 12.5% DJ correction on my DD dyno. That woulda put my G35 at 1010whp DJ on stock sleeves.

too bad they are selling and wont try for more HP
http://www.intensepower.com/inmovefowig3.html

 

....james the piping is the same... if the piping was limiting a smaller turbo it would be limiting even more on a larger turbo right?....but that isnt happening, so that is why i have been bringing those other dynos to show that the same piping on other larger turbos have had no problems with flow and the turbo doing what you would expect them to be doing. The turbo is only thing that is not apples to apples

i didnt pick that number, but thats what they said they have seen as far as variance to a Dj from their DD dyno... i think between 11-12 %is more common... dunno... if you pick a more conservative 10% thats still 500whp Dj

Yeah they are selling, car did/accomplish everythign they planned on, so on to next project... i dont think they have plans to make it more dedicated track car and up boost, do more.

 

I get ya, post reply intended at Hal......seems he's checking out everything and not just the turbo, mate.

 

Ya, you wouldnt expect the piping to be suspect. Not sure why it keeps coming back to that. You'd expect it to be an exhaust backpressure / turbine backpressure issue, or a charge pipe proximity to hot radiator or something..

Hopefully PL logged the data that IP was looking for as that is critical for determining realistic power numbers for a kit. For the number of people expecting low to mid 500's on pump, their expectations seem to be based upon other platform data/extrapolated #'s and not PL.

PL's GT37 is a hybrid turbo. Cant remember if it was larger turbine housing though.

 

"....james the piping is the same... if the piping was limiting a smaller turbo it would be limiting even more on a larger turbo right?....but that isnt happening, so that is why i have been bringing those other dynos to show that the same piping on other larger turbos have had no problems with flow and the turbo doing what you would expect them to be doing. The turbo is only thing that is not apples to apples"

Good point on the the piping.

 

? #1. As asked by Greg and left unanswered, please provide intake air temperature logs at 10, 15, 20 and 25psi?

A #1 When I was asked this question, Jason was conducting Pro EFI Classes and was unavailable. You are a dealer for his product so it should be just as simple for you to inquire for those numbers and logging since he was our tuner.

I as the Sales Manager do not (unfortunately) have the logging and AIT's handy on my computer. Nor did or do I have immediate access to the files from the original runs with the kit and vehicle. I have requested it and will fwd them once/if I have them available.

? #2. Please explain more on your statement, "I'm curious who told you that you will be making over 500wheel on pump gas?"

I take this as you suggesting it likely may not achieve 500whp on pump gas.

What was the maximum boost and power you/PL achieved with PL GT35R on pump gas?

What would you consider to be the limiting factor of your kit's power production on pump gas?

Keep in mind, I do not subscribe to the generic school of thought "you can't go beyond XX psi on pump gas!"... I want to know the reason for the limit.

A #2 My question is exactly that. Nothing to be read into it.

We have never made claims to PUMP HP gains on this kit at any boost level because honestly we have never had requests to max out pump gas on a semi built block.

I did not say it would not make it (500WHP on PUMP) and I did not say it would not make it. We will put together some more public testing on the kit that can be seen what numbers can be achieved on 91 (no 93 available here) pump gas shortly.

I don't believe that it is in question that on RACE (C16) Gas the kit made the 653WHP #'s

? #3. Hopefully you logged exhaust back pressure in the development of this turbo kit?
If so, please share the findings, as I feel this is most likely the factor currently limiting further power production.

My next move would be finding the limitation causing the back pressure, and improving it - be it piping, turbo, etc. I already know there are plenty of bandwagon people ready to tell me about how great the piping is - but again, please only people with first hand experience of PL Kit on built motor chime in.

A #3 I will refer to my answer above "Jason was conducting Pro EFI Classes and was unavailable. You are a dealer for his product so it should be just as simple for you to inquire for those numbers and logging since he was our tuner."

On the subject of back pressure.:

Was the exhaust ever uncorked?

What size is the reverse Y-Pipe on the vehicle?
(Some things to consider here as well)

Our assumption is that the turbo kit is being flowed through a standard HKS true dual exhaust which isn't designed for FI

Lastly, if there have been any offensive or derogatory comments made outside of Intensesales (MY) posting and/or My own to be clear towards Injected or the OP then, WE APOLOGIZE for it.

I don't think that IntenseSales ever posted in this manner but, again we have no angst or ill will towards Injected based on this thread or install AT ALL.

We will gladly work with Injected on figuring out what is needed to help their customer out.

The results of our testing will not be immediate and we won't be posting repeatedly in this thread. Things take a bit of time and we have many projects on our schedule but, this will be made a priority.

 

..FOR ME TO POOP ON!

Also seriously, I'm looking at this closely too. It was implied to me by many that I could make similar power to, say, a GReddy kit with a built motor, which is a very serious possiblity for me this fall. I will be quite pissed to find out my kit which is screaming "the turbo makes 650 horsepower" can't crack 14 psi or 460 whp on pump...that is BS if Injected's finding hold true. This puts people who were looking to build at a point where they should decide to slap on twins before the motor goes back in to save huge amounts of money, crushing fail, and wasted time. I would not build my motor for a mere 100 horsepower potential bump...that is stupid and a waste.

 

Pete, why would I ask Jason when first I do not know who tunes your cars, second who's laptop the logs are on, and third when you specifically told me that you would ask Han when he arrived to work. Therefore I waited on a response from you or Han, not knowing to talk to Jason.

 

When Jason spoke with Hal last week about this thread/the issues with OP's car, did he not inform Hal that he did all the tuning on the Intense widebody G (as well as other Intense cars) with the PowerLab kit?

 

 

^ Also... Does the OP's wastegate recirculate into that exhaust, or does he have an open wastegate dump?

Look at the difference an open dump made for Elperuano at 8PSI. The benefit of an open dump (and conversely, the disadvantage of recirculating into an exhaust setup like the OP's) would be even more significant at the higher power levels the OP is trying to achieve.

 

I too will be upset if I find building the motor would yield a minimal HP gain. I now have seconds thoughts about doing this given the current results of this kit on built motors. In for a guinea pig or maybe some more r&d for current customers with future goals?

 

how much power did he pick up with an open dump?

 

https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...t35r-8lbs.html

He made 420whp @ 8PSI with supposedly a very conservative tune on a Mustang dyno, which typically reads lower than a DJ. Most guys with the PowerLab kit are making ~400whp DJ at the same PSI.

 

RudeG, You are posting misinformation again, and are wrong. I did not speak with Jason last weak, nor have I ever discussed this customer or thread with Jason.

I was aware from prior conversations (months ago) that Jason had a part in the tuning of the G35 some time ago. I have not bothered him with these questions, as I feel the developers of a turbo kit should know basic performance data from development, and that it is not the customers responsibility to hunt down a 3rd party tuner regardless of who it is.


Intense, thank you for the reply and I hope to hear back with the info soon.

With regards to the exhaust, we did not unbolt it and test - this is something I would be willing to test when the car comes back. Though Jtran did the same thing prior to their customer ditching the Powerlab kit: "same thing. same power, with stock intake manifold. power still drops. peaked at 506 whp and 547 wtq, not the exhaust either since we are running just the dp open." Source

 

That's simply not true (well, for me anyway) and my posts will support that when evidence presents itself, I support what I feel is right. I rarely speak against ANY shop or person (unless I am speaking directly face to face with that individual and have an issue). I only speak to what I feel is right or wrong. I'm not saying Eric is a bad person or that Intense is a bad shop, but I do think Eric and I should both excuse ourselves from this thread. I think it is inappropriate for him to self-appoint himself as judge and jury when threads involving Intense arise. That is what I see as "wrong" and was my main purpose in posting. (His childish use of my quote in his sig had nothing to do with it! ) We should probably refrain from further OT discussion... Happy to take to PM (stormcrow or Eric).

 

Im sorry this is not contributing to the thread but

Carry on...

 

I have been real busy since my last post and have been trying to get over all the drama and just drive and enjoy my ride. I have also continue to research the power problem while back in Asheville, NC. I took the car to a friend's shop and had the exhaust removed from the 3' pipe, that was included in the PL kit, back and had the car dyno'd on his dynojet. The good new was an 518whp/ 475 torque run on Mike's Dyno the bad new is that these numbers correlate to the 465whp run on IP's DD dyno. So, the kit will hit the 500 whp mark on a Dynojet dyno but no power was gained by removing the HKS portion of my exhaust. My goal was to achieve 500-520whp (max out the Walbro m255 pump) on IP's dyno so I am still weighing options at this point to achieve this goal on pump gas. I believe the turbo is maxed out at this point (15psi on pump gas) so the three options for me will be MID level Meth kit, 1.06 hot side turbine housing and finally an t67 turbo upgrade. I don't want to spent the $2000 for a new turbo at this point so I am leaning more toward the first two options.

 

I would think carefully before spending too much $ chasing #s. At 15 psi (with my 700bb kit on a 5AT)) I made 482 whp on Sharif's dyno, 505 whp of Injected's DD (at ZdayZ), and 523 whp on a local Dynojet with STD correction. Dyno readings vary all over the place when it's different days, conditions, etc.

When you're ready for a jump in power - you'll need a big jump in power to feel it, whether it's from 465 or 500.

I think you may get the most bang for the buck from a good meth injection setup - that seems like the most practical choice since it will allow you to run the turbo out a little more and cool the intake charge at the same time. Good luck.

 

so why is your goal to max out a single pump walbro?

you def don't want to get to that range. it gets super expensive. try 2400$ for a stage 3 fuel system (twin pump). i know, i'm there and there is a HUGE price difference to make any noticable power gains just like RC said.