go-fast

I hand you yet another article claiming this car has already been dyno'ed to 1000hp but it is ok to perpetuate these false statements provided they make enough money to build a 5at for you? we are on different wavelengths my friend.

Alright i'll give in and try it your way....i ordered a big bore kit for my gas skateboard and i "estimate" it will make 1000hp.If any mags pick this up and have a "typo" stating it's the first of it's kind and has already made this power then it's ok cause my future work will depend on the revenue generated from this build and i'm guessing my future work will be several 1000hp "capable" skateboards.when pressed for a dyno i'll just say "We have put a lot of thought into this setup and will not rest until it performs the way we want it to......it's a journey"



I't can't be both ways,you can't have ads all over the place saying this car made the power already if it hasn't even started up yet.


and of course it's positive feedback from the internet community,all dissenters will be deleted.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

WOW... Seriously? So fraudulent marketing is OK as long as other GTM customers benefit from it?

Barnabas

iTrader: (15)

typo's or marketing gimmicks or anything i would not support any company that is fraudulent in their business practices time and time again. I would rather not build a car then support those that lie and deceive.

If GTM/owner of the car would make it known in the article that that is their GOAL not what it makes fine, but considering their past history in builds and the stories that have been swept under the rug, and the other things that have been going on for the past couple years I dont think they deserve the benefit of the doubt or a second chance.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

No I did not saying being fraudulent is ok... Jeez.

The melodrama arising from an implication to deceive consumers about having made 1000 whp on a dyno is a bit over the top, don't you think? I don't really care that they've actually only made 855. Why do you all care so much? It's not like GTM is going to destroy the infrastructure for the country or start World War III! And so what if you're ranting is successful and they go out of business? You think all those prospective consumers will be safe and cozy?

Are you aware of the scale of fraud by big business in this country and you are whining about this? Why not turn your sites on the likes of a company like Pfizer? They have actually killed people with their practices (Nigeria) and then looked for protection within the US legal system. Even then, you cannot just rant and ask to shut down a company that produces more pharmaceuticals than any other. Their R&D and production continue to save thousands of lives every day. Deceptive marketing practices are part of our everyday lives. Why pick on GTM for this specific issue?

Look, forget it. GTM has accomplished what few other shops have in terms of new parts and services for this platform. If they have cheated people, shame on them. I'd still buy a built 5AT if I needed it from GTM and I'd still buy needed meds from Pfizer. I guess that makes me an accomplice in crime and not worthy of your high moral standards.

Ok, back onto your high horses and carry on with the ranting...

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Raj you once again prove to be a horse with blinders on.

AAM made (mostly) good products, but had shady claims, customer support, builds, catastrophic high profiel failures-does this sound like another company?? They are now operating under a diff name, and this forum and many in the community have left them for dead. Most of that is because the Mid-A section of the forums isnt scared to post the truth, over and over, and deal with and face it.

Other sections/regions of the forums dont get to weed out the BS shops.

Thats what should happen here, but as long as Sam pays his sponsor fees, it wont. And people like you will always defend them in some shape or form. To just say "if they cheated people, shame on them" as if they were a 5yr old child who deserves timeout is ridiculous at best.

Barnabas

iTrader: (15)

Absolutely agree it happens every day. If I can consciously avoid a particular company though since someone else offers a comparable product though then I will.

Do I check every drug I buy to see who made it?? no, but if I saw a Pfizer store would I go in and make purchases absolutely not. If I ran a company and we needed to make a large purchase I would also explore other sources to meet our needs. This is the approach I am taking. there are plenty of other very good R&D Company's for our platform from which I would readily source parts before GTM.

as Alberto mentioned AAM was a good example of this. there were allot of supporters and allot of things covered up by/for them but now they are gone because people stepped up and told the truth and didn't want to see other people screwed over.
There is another shop here in the MID A that recently closed there doors for screwing customers over and not being completyely honest and they werent even on GTM/AAM level.

I miss the days of the handshake and pride in making an honest buck.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Ok, fair enough arguments. Your position was well stated Barnabas.

Alberto, I don't really think I have blinders on. Nor am I defending GTM. I live by my own set of values and imo, it is wrong to rehash old issues to serve your own personal self righteous agenda. I'm not saying that you are not justified in having issues with GTM. I'm just trying to convey that the way you go about posing your argument is important if your going to complain about the ethics and morals of others. To harp on this 1000 whp claim when the real issue is that you feel GTM has promoted sleeved blocks (among other expensive parts that they produce) that have failed you and others is deceptive also - just in another way. Attack the company for doing X, Y, and Z because you believe they need to be punished for doing A, B, and C? Send the accused to prison for robbing some stranger because you know for a fact that they robbed you (but didn't get punished)? Then you complain that the my350z mods bury the ranting under the rug. The mods have let the personal experience of users based on fact be posted and discussed. Should they serve as judge and jury based on those posts and ban sponsors? Those threads may be closed but any resourceful member can search and research any company out there for themselves and discover the good and the bad.

I don't want to see anybody screwed over either, but imo there's a right and wrong way to go about advocating on their behalf.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

Last time I checked... this was a car forum devoted to the Z/G platform and GTM is a shop within this community. Please stop with the strawman arguments and diversion tactics.

I have strong opinions about fraud and deceptive practices in general and have been known to be very outspoken on issues of fraud/criminal misconduct by businesses and government officials. I'd be happy to rant about those other issues of fraud and deception on a larger scale. However, it's not relevant to the topic of discussion in this thread or appropriate to discuss them here. Even though there are more egregious examples of fraud and deception elsewhere outside of this community, it doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to the shady crap that is going on here within our community.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

off topic

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

You are attempting to defend GTM. Anyone with basic reading comprehension and common sense can see that when reading your posts from today. You wouldn't have come in here to post otherwise.

LOTS of threads and posts with personal experiences and solid evidence have been deleted over the years and swept under the rug (whether by the mods or behind the scenes politics with the OP).

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

off topic and I can't delete this. Never mind carry on.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

My bad. During my 6 month absence from the forum, I had heard that it was deleted. I never went back to check myself.

Still... Senior members on here have seen plenty of legitimate dirt get swept under the carpet over the years.



Why are you the self appointed defense attorney? And why do you resort to name calling now? When I referred to you as a spin doctor last year, I received infraction points from Terry. Yet you seem to have carte blanche to call me whatever you want.

Goodnight Raj. Sleep well. I can.

go-fast

We've pointed out each misstep (from a-z) but have been marginalized by folks like yourself who believe "as long as i got mine" it's ok.Other sponsors have been banned for far less egregious actions.Mods are the judge and jury here but as of yet they have been silent about the elephant in the room.


So the history verifiable within this forum :

poor conduct with other vendors(the list is long)

questionable build quality-short lived motors (especially sleeves)

larger than life bills (a teardown comes to mind)

total denial of responsibility for failures(been scrubbed here but g35 has some)

claims of "in house" when it's not (you put "gtm" on products when you make it,not when you order it)

big builds with tons of hype never finished (vk)

unverifiable hp ratings on parts (1000hp anyone?)

random employees signing in as sam when it's clearly not(from the rv salesman to mike to whoever else it is)

name calling and insults (just look at the deleted posts towards me in this thread)

a long journey to 1000hp with "typo's" repeated in multiple places saying the car already made this power in november 2010,last time i checked it's march 2011.

How much is enough?Or is it ok cause they build a 5at?

I'm sure some mods are reading this now and i wonder about their perspective on yet another link with dyno claims for this build.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I do not believe mods on a public forum are in a position to serve as a business ethics advisory board and neither are you. If you have a complaint about some specific business between you and GTM, state it and provide the documentation to educate future consumers. Now that would be legitimate and productive.

I'm not marginalizing legitimate complaints. I'm just speaking to your non-stop, redundant, tiresome preaching. Don't you think folks know who the GTM haters are by now and the message they deliver with every post that involves them? Do you really need to keep complaining about overstated claims, unfinished builds and larger than life bills? You're running your own marketing campaign, perhaps with the best of intentions, but using whatever minutiae you can dig up. It's not the right way to go about it.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

I disagree. Site staff have both the authority and responsibility to take action when a vendor on their site is caught engaging in untruthful or deceptive marketing hype. I also disagree with the notion that complaints posted on this forum should be limited to customers about their own personal transactions with a specific vendor. One doesn't have to be a customer of that shop to recognize deceptive marketing hype or a pattern of shady practices on the forums. I think it's absurd to suggest that only those directly involved or affected are entitled to call out BS when they see it. A good community is supposed to look out for each other; not only themselves.

I've seen numerous attempts over the years to marginalize legitimate complaints and those who voice them. Some people have different views and opinions about what is or isn't legitimate, based on personal experiences, biases, and moral codes. Our disagreements over the years are a testament to that.

Those of us who keep complaining about GTM continue to do so because of a perceived double standard and ongoing disparate treatment with how vendors are/aren't held accountable. If the vendor and/or the site staff showed genuine efforts to do the right thing, we wouldn't still be complaining.

go-fast

How would you prefer i go about it?Pretend i don't see it happening again?Become one of the sheeple who think it's only "marketing" and for the greater good?Who do you think the "white dragon" has benefited more,the owner or gtm?The guy doesn't even have a car anymore or at least hasn't driven it in almost a year.Remember this was going to be his daily driver?He had to go buy a scooby......that's right a scooby,where are his "r&d" dollars going next time?I bet it's not this platform.So gtm got paid,the owner got $100k lighter,we don't even have a 100whp car cause it has no intake for the foreseeable future,which is really strange considering they could have used several off the shelf intakes for a baseline and break in,but nada they push it around for months,very very odd......so tell me how's that for greater good?Who benefited?

I guess you got a 5at so that's cool.

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

I'm sorry but rcdash makes legitimate and objective points, although I don't agree with all of his reasoning. Fact: Most of you guys are going off topic.

Also, there's a difference between "watching out" for others in the community and being overly concerned to the point of being intrusive. Some of you guys are bordering on the latter.

At any rate, I don't really see a point to having this thread open any longer. It's becoming a rehash, have gone off-topic, and a has become a breeding ground for more arguments. This thread will be closed, but not deleted. I hope the future readers of this thread can see things from both sides and are able to form their own opinions (hopefully after researching the "history") and not just take any of you guys' words at face value.