onevq35de

Did you relocate your air bag sensor up front? I want to dump my front crash bar so bad it hurts but I'm uneasy about it because that sensor is sticking way out in front of the core support just itching to get triggered.
I see your in SC. Maybe I'll come out there so we can race and I'll show you my...headlights

onevq35de

Well, the dude certainly doesn't need any more power. I see your point. E85 might get in the way? The only known difference is the fuel selection.

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

yeah its now mounted on the radiator support.


Who knows..i still need to get mine back on a dyno and tuned. I may be in for a big disappointment. I do know i had to drop my boost controller open loop output in order to not overboost while on meth.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

too much is never enough!

I see RC's point, but Im still not sure E85 is for me ... It'd be nice to try it out if it wasn't such an investment...

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I used methanol injection before switching to E85 (so all that testing was on 93 octane). I got rid of my complex set up (full aquamist HFS6) when going to flex fuel.

Methanol injection brought only a small incremental gain in power, really just used for safety and consistency of power output. E85 gains are much more substantial. If you already have 600 or so to the wheels, you've reached the limit of street tire traction. You can invest more to generate more output but acceleration gains will be minimal (on the street).

onevq35de

Ah, so maybe the reason for the small gain is because it was used for safety and consistency and not a power increase. Figured somethings got to give because one guy has success with something and another doesn't? Somethings going on there.
Still trying to get hold of this Rodney cat to get the down-low on pre-maf NA injection. Anyone out there with experience injecting pre-maf w/out a compressor (doubt it), please chime in.
Also, it's been a pleasure conversing with the likes of you gentleman with your bad *** z's.
I'm not worthy!

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

So let me just clear up that my goal was to look for power increases with methanol injection but I had a hard time proving pre-turbo injection was worthwhile on the dyno.

Post-turbo injection definitely leads to consistent power increases as you can push more boost safely. I just didn’t see it pre-turbo. Part of the reason is that everyone, including the aqua mist engineer recommended not going higher than 3 mm nozzles pre-turbo to avoid damage to the compressor wheels. I believe this limits gains.

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

3mm nozzles are HUGE. The hose i feed mine with is only 4mm.

I think you will not see the temp drop necessarily, just the turbo efficiency (less rpm to make the same boost ) Idk...just thought.

onevq35de

I spoke with Rodney today @ Pro-Meth. Dudes really nice and gave me an ear full. Wish he do so to one of ya'll as I'm compressor-less.
He's help a lot of people with other companies injection kits and really only helps with injector sizing now becuase it requires to much of his time. Understandable. Personally, if I owned abc meth inc. and someone bought a kit from xyz, I'd say "what the hell r u calling me for!"
He said he sees his customers through 100%, from install to trouble shooting. He also told me something I did not want to hear in that n/a injection is basically a waste of time. Minimal benefit. Mustangs, Camaros, they'll use it and tune for race fuel type octane (116 did he say?) because of the water/meth, so more timing. I want it pre-maf to cool the n/a air charge but it didn't sound like that was really his bag so to speak, so I'ma put a little something together for myself sometime soon. Need to find out if the american pony cars are maf and if so, that answers a question I forgot to ask him which is, will the maf survive?
He also told me in a certain drag class, nos guys were bitching because the compressor guys were kicking *** injecting pre-compressor. They got the rules changed. Then they started running post-compressor, but in the volute which still had excellent benefits. Ha. What a bunch of diiiiiiiiiiiiicks. Rather than innovate, the nos guys cried.

meatbag

iTrader: (9)

Dont spray meth or water over the MAF it will cause it to read stupid

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

what MAF! ditched it.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

maf = gonzo!

CUX - when you installed your nozzles, did you pay much (if any) attention to the angle with respect to the pipe is was being installed on? Meaning - are the nozzles perpendicular to flow and the nozzles atomizing well enough that the injection angle is irrelevant? or did you try to make that angle acute with respect to the flow?

did the meth install make your build page?

onevq35de

You know from experience? Please share, ye bag o'meat.
I think most would assume so, but from what I've gathered so far, it doesn't sound like it, at least regarding water. Meth and alchy, yes, I agree, but only because Rodney told me so and I know no better. A fine misting of water should be ok. It'll be more beneficial on the h.c. engine I'd like to move onto sooner rather than later.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

VQ - I'd tend to error on the side of caution and heed meatbags advice ... Seeing how influential the MAF is on the ECU and how fast things can go wrong.

If it was me, I'd pre-maf spray the smallest possible amount, be very cautious not to overspray, and monitor the cars performance.

I'd hate to see you overspray, misguide/confuse the ECU and pop your engine in the name of lower IAT.

my 2cents

onevq35de

Made a 4" intake. It makes power. When I made it, I installed it knowing the fx wouldn't run. It started it and it ran for a few seconds then died. Took it off, went to my tuner, he measured, tuned and all was well. If the maf doesn't like the mist, it should end on a similar note.
For sure, small amount. I'd like to replicate how cool it feels with a mister and fan on a hot day. Makes a huge difference and cools ya down so it should with the engine's iat's as well.
I did have a little water injection setup and ran through 2 quarts of 50/50 distilled water & alchy in 78 miles on the highway. Bet that cleaned out the chambers.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

My fear would be that the MAF acts in a manner inconsistent with the how the ECU is controlling the engine and your engine gets the *** end of it...

I know enough to know that I dont know enough...

that's all I'm saying ...

but do it, do it gingerly, ease in to it, and let us know how it goes.

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

mine are mounted in the top of my filters and spray down into the pipe.

onevq35de

Got any photos or are the ones on the wire tuck thread still relevant? My thoughts were to get hold of a reliable pump that can continuously spray and the finest of fine nozzles. Set the pump up to come on with the starter and put the nozzle in the rubber end-cap on the opposite end of the filter from the intake pipe and aim it at the t.b.

kilogram

iTrader: (1)

He's right that it will make your maf read very wrong.

The hotwire in the MAF acts like a wheatstone bridge to control an opamp circuit that drives current through the wire. It's tuned for a specific temperature (and thus, resistance), since the resistance of the wire changes with temperature. When the resistance of that wire changes due to being cooled by airflow, this unbalances the wheatstone bridge and the opamp circuit, which forces more current through the wire to heat it back up to the equilibrium temperature. Wire current is measured as voltage across a sense resistor which is then amplified into a voltage signal to the ECU.

The phase transition from liquid to gas absorbs a huge amount of energy (which is why we like chemical intercooling). Any liquid that is not completely vaporized before reaching the hotwire will cause it to cool substantially, drastically affecting readings to the ECU. If the temperature delta is fast and or large enough, it could destroy the sensor.

They're pretty robust and designed to survive quite a bit of abuse, but injecting liquid in front of it is a VERY bad idea. Pre-compressor injection is a different story because the compressor vaporizes the liquid completely (or if it doesn't, anything that isn't vaporized drops out in the intercooler). The mustang guys have been doing this for decades (as I'm sure Rodney told you).

Cux350z

iTrader: (162)

probably not in the wire tuck thread. Its kinda a secret too

You have the same idea though.

I will probably be moving mine in the future to be closer to the turbo inlet.