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07-14-2012, 09:58 AM
#263
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jerry, i'm not sure how it even drove at all with traction control on the dyno. When i pulled onto the dyno to line it up with traction control on it pretty much disabled everything on my car lining the car up let alone allow a pull since the front wheels are doing 0 and the rear would be moving. I honestly think the guy turned off the VDC because i've never had a 350z or g35 on the dyno and drove it with traction control on. It just won't work. It kills the engine instantly when you start off.
That being said, your issue would be the fuel. You said it pegged full rich which is what, 10:1? That means it was below that so you were probably flooding the engine out causing it to limit the power and tq which would flat line it and not allow rpms to go up. So something was going on when dynoing that hasn't when you have street runs if it is so rich on the dyno. My guess is the meth injection. With meth you should be running up in the high 11's for a/f since you have that cooling and octane buffer. Pull more fuel out and get it back on the dyno!
so again, i don't think traction control was the culprit. The ones i've had on the dyno instantly stall the engine when trying to ease out the clutch. Also, if he managed to get it running and the traction control hit it wouldn't level off power, it completely destroys power because it cuts spark. You would have nasty drops in power and the car would have been bucking horribly on the dyno like hitting a rev limiter.
That being said, your issue would be the fuel. You said it pegged full rich which is what, 10:1? That means it was below that so you were probably flooding the engine out causing it to limit the power and tq which would flat line it and not allow rpms to go up. So something was going on when dynoing that hasn't when you have street runs if it is so rich on the dyno. My guess is the meth injection. With meth you should be running up in the high 11's for a/f since you have that cooling and octane buffer. Pull more fuel out and get it back on the dyno!
so again, i don't think traction control was the culprit. The ones i've had on the dyno instantly stall the engine when trying to ease out the clutch. Also, if he managed to get it running and the traction control hit it wouldn't level off power, it completely destroys power because it cuts spark. You would have nasty drops in power and the car would have been bucking horribly on the dyno like hitting a rev limiter.
07-14-2012, 10:58 AM
#264
not sure he kept telling me it didnt want to accelerate in rpms, and in his words it "was like the clutch is slipping" the thing is i have driven it with the slip light going crazy from my tires being the same size front and rear, it dosnt make near the same power but i can still hit boost even with traction control engaged and working to cut power because i have forgotten before.
for me pegging rich is 10.9:1 my guages wont go any lower then that even though ive checked the calibrations in haltech software several times as well as free air calibration several times. the fuel is between 11.2-11.4 between 4800 to about 5700ish so while theres some power to be had there the afr is far less rich there then the pegged rich above that but the torque stays flat. once it hits the 10.9:1 it has a bunch of rich misfires it dosnt have down low.
i would think if fuel was the major factor(again i know i have power to gain there especially in the upper rpm range i just dont think its the only thing going on.) then the torque after 5700 would be a bit lower.
is that even with a haltech though? because ive never had that issue with traction control on, it will cut power but like i said i can still build boost and it will still accelerate but theres a very noticeable drop in power.
also what i find a bit interesting is it picks up power as low as 4400 rpm, but i did not touch the map below 5500 yesterday
for me pegging rich is 10.9:1 my guages wont go any lower then that even though ive checked the calibrations in haltech software several times as well as free air calibration several times. the fuel is between 11.2-11.4 between 4800 to about 5700ish so while theres some power to be had there the afr is far less rich there then the pegged rich above that but the torque stays flat. once it hits the 10.9:1 it has a bunch of rich misfires it dosnt have down low.
i would think if fuel was the major factor(again i know i have power to gain there especially in the upper rpm range i just dont think its the only thing going on.) then the torque after 5700 would be a bit lower.
is that even with a haltech though? because ive never had that issue with traction control on, it will cut power but like i said i can still build boost and it will still accelerate but theres a very noticeable drop in power.
also what i find a bit interesting is it picks up power as low as 4400 rpm, but i did not touch the map below 5500 yesterday
Last edited by jerryd87; 07-14-2012 at 11:00 AM.
07-14-2012, 12:05 PM
#265
also reviewing the data log from the final dyno run the rpms are bouncing around a decent bit, up and down up to 300 rpms despite 100% tps, and boost was fluctuating as low as 15 and high as 25 psi while tps was 100%, can only really notice it with data log replay as slow as it goes at .1 replay speed. i think the smoothing on the dyno plot was covering up alot on the chart.
personally im gona stick with traction control was trying to cut power and the car simply powered through it(i know it has for me before.) would explain the lower power, what i see in the data log, and also what the dyno operator was explaining to me that he felt.
gona try and get a plot with 0 smoothing see what it looks like i think it will be incredibly rough.
edit:also gona look into seeing if ams has a spot open next friday and just have them tune it.
also called them and dyno operator claims he turned it off but he wasnt sure what i was talking about at first so idk. the log from the dyno just seems alot more jumpy then what i see on the street, and alot slower boost, plus no idea what else might cause the torque to flat line like that.
personally im gona stick with traction control was trying to cut power and the car simply powered through it(i know it has for me before.) would explain the lower power, what i see in the data log, and also what the dyno operator was explaining to me that he felt.
gona try and get a plot with 0 smoothing see what it looks like i think it will be incredibly rough.
edit:also gona look into seeing if ams has a spot open next friday and just have them tune it.
also called them and dyno operator claims he turned it off but he wasnt sure what i was talking about at first so idk. the log from the dyno just seems alot more jumpy then what i see on the street, and alot slower boost, plus no idea what else might cause the torque to flat line like that.
Last edited by jerryd87; 07-14-2012 at 02:01 PM.
07-14-2012, 02:52 PM
#266
ill take a look at my clutch adjustment again too, mayby it really is slipping, not really sure what they used for rpm pickup because i wasnt paying attention but i find it really interesting my data log shows as high as 7100 rpm but the dyno dosnt.
heres the log during the actual run can see flat spots in the rpms, as well as slight dips, and the boost is kinda everywhere even though above 5k it should be 25 psi. fuel is definitly rich but even at some of the leaner 11.1-11.3 areas it shows no different torque, and also no difference even with a 5 psi boost difference. although i guess with half a second in the spikes the dyno might just be smoothing it. ive leaned it out a bit more it should be closer to about 11.6-11.8:1 across the entire map, dont wanna go too much leaner then that since i am running a rather large amount of alcohol.
peak fuel is about 117 now and tapers down alot better from there.
heres the log during the actual run can see flat spots in the rpms, as well as slight dips, and the boost is kinda everywhere even though above 5k it should be 25 psi. fuel is definitly rich but even at some of the leaner 11.1-11.3 areas it shows no different torque, and also no difference even with a 5 psi boost difference. although i guess with half a second in the spikes the dyno might just be smoothing it. ive leaned it out a bit more it should be closer to about 11.6-11.8:1 across the entire map, dont wanna go too much leaner then that since i am running a rather large amount of alcohol.
peak fuel is about 117 now and tapers down alot better from there.
Last edited by jerryd87; 07-14-2012 at 03:05 PM.
07-14-2012, 08:07 PM
#267
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Those jumps aren't near enough for it to be traction control. I forget mine almost every time i've put it on the dyno and it REALLY gets nasty when i try to start moving.
It cuts spark so you should have areas of timing advance that drop to 0 when the traction control hits. That's what it does on my haltech logs if my traction control kicks on with it on the street. Spark advance drops to zero and the car bucks bad.
It's just really weird that you are getting different boost and a/f on the street than the dyno. based on that i'm not sure what to do with the a/f. If it's pegged rich on the dyno then it's rich and needs fuel out. I know when I was first tuning e85 i didn't know where to start and had it super rich. It flat lined in power and wouldn't accelerate due to the amount of fuel. Maybe something went wrong on the dyno causing the a/f to be off. Also, not sure why the boost wouldn't be normal. especially in 4th gear. Something strange is going on.
It cuts spark so you should have areas of timing advance that drop to 0 when the traction control hits. That's what it does on my haltech logs if my traction control kicks on with it on the street. Spark advance drops to zero and the car bucks bad.
It's just really weird that you are getting different boost and a/f on the street than the dyno. based on that i'm not sure what to do with the a/f. If it's pegged rich on the dyno then it's rich and needs fuel out. I know when I was first tuning e85 i didn't know where to start and had it super rich. It flat lined in power and wouldn't accelerate due to the amount of fuel. Maybe something went wrong on the dyno causing the a/f to be off. Also, not sure why the boost wouldn't be normal. especially in 4th gear. Something strange is going on.
07-14-2012, 08:51 PM
#268
im gona take it to a different dyno next week, gona call monday to set something up, plus massive changes to the fueling, dude claimed he couldnt get it to go to 7k where i told him to lift(haltech currently has 7k5 for the rev limiter) yet i had no issues on the street when i left.
the changes i made should give me closer to a 11.6:1 afr where it flat lined and about a 11.9:1 lower then that. made some slight spark adjustments as well. mayby something was just off since the dyno and logs are both showing very different rpm's. changed up the boost control as well so it has a 7k cell, dont think that was it but heck why not so it has the same number in the cells for both 6k and 7k. gona log a couple times this week before taking it up there as well.
also gona look at the plugs tomarrow and prob swap back to the 2 step colders so i can possibly add some more timing. right now its got stock heat range and so far havnt had any issues.
the changes i made should give me closer to a 11.6:1 afr where it flat lined and about a 11.9:1 lower then that. made some slight spark adjustments as well. mayby something was just off since the dyno and logs are both showing very different rpm's. changed up the boost control as well so it has a 7k cell, dont think that was it but heck why not so it has the same number in the cells for both 6k and 7k. gona log a couple times this week before taking it up there as well.
also gona look at the plugs tomarrow and prob swap back to the 2 step colders so i can possibly add some more timing. right now its got stock heat range and so far havnt had any issues.
Last edited by jerryd87; 07-14-2012 at 09:25 PM.
07-14-2012, 11:14 PM
#269
im gona take it to a different dyno next week, gona call monday to set something up, plus massive changes to the fueling, dude claimed he couldnt get it to go to 7k where i told him to lift(haltech currently has 7k5 for the rev limiter) yet i had no issues on the street when i left.
the changes i made should give me closer to a 11.6:1 afr where it flat lined and about a 11.9:1 lower then that. made some slight spark adjustments as well. mayby something was just off since the dyno and logs are both showing very different rpm's. changed up the boost control as well so it has a 7k cell, dont think that was it but heck why not so it has the same number in the cells for both 6k and 7k. gona log a couple times this week before taking it up there as well.
also gona look at the plugs tomarrow and prob swap back to the 2 step colders so i can possibly add some more timing. right now its got stock heat range and so far havnt had any issues.
the changes i made should give me closer to a 11.6:1 afr where it flat lined and about a 11.9:1 lower then that. made some slight spark adjustments as well. mayby something was just off since the dyno and logs are both showing very different rpm's. changed up the boost control as well so it has a 7k cell, dont think that was it but heck why not so it has the same number in the cells for both 6k and 7k. gona log a couple times this week before taking it up there as well.
also gona look at the plugs tomarrow and prob swap back to the 2 step colders so i can possibly add some more timing. right now its got stock heat range and so far havnt had any issues.
07-15-2012, 12:08 AM
#270
it very well could still be fuel to be honest i was looking at my map vs binders and taking about 30% off his VE maps im still about 10% higher then what it should be even with the massive changes, i still have some issues remembering this is VE and not injector pulse width like the old camaros with some of the first domestic fuel injection systems lol. i imagine some of that has to do with the meth running leaner then gas though and very well could be injector dead time and flow rates not quite being advertised as well. ill see how she runs tomarrow.
it actually makes alot more sense since i wasnt really paying attention to my duty cycle i was seeing as high a 68% which combined with the meth nozzles would have been just over 1000cc of fuel per cylinder, which is far more then needed, enough to feed about 650 wheel hp.
it actually makes alot more sense since i wasnt really paying attention to my duty cycle i was seeing as high a 68% which combined with the meth nozzles would have been just over 1000cc of fuel per cylinder, which is far more then needed, enough to feed about 650 wheel hp.
Last edited by jerryd87; 07-15-2012 at 12:10 AM.
07-15-2012, 12:27 PM
#271
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it very well could still be fuel to be honest i was looking at my map vs binders and taking about 30% off his VE maps im still about 10% higher then what it should be even with the massive changes, i still have some issues remembering this is VE and not injector pulse width like the old camaros with some of the first domestic fuel injection systems lol. i imagine some of that has to do with the meth running leaner then gas though and very well could be injector dead time and flow rates not quite being advertised as well. ill see how she runs tomarrow.
it actually makes alot more sense since i wasnt really paying attention to my duty cycle i was seeing as high a 68% which combined with the meth nozzles would have been just over 1000cc of fuel per cylinder, which is far more then needed, enough to feed about 650 wheel hp.
it actually makes alot more sense since i wasnt really paying attention to my duty cycle i was seeing as high a 68% which combined with the meth nozzles would have been just over 1000cc of fuel per cylinder, which is far more then needed, enough to feed about 650 wheel hp.
ya, that's a ton of fuel you are pushing. I'm only at 73% for 650hp up top.
On my cells, some of those are more like 50-60% higher than what I had in the same place for pump gas. I was shocked that my boost portion of my e85 map was WAY more fuel than the normal expected 30-40% I saw in the vac portion.
07-15-2012, 03:30 PM
#272
ill have to run it after the new adjustments and see, i pulled the plugs and its a good thing i did, they look like they where running normally but i happen to know for a fact it was running rich so if i was running where i needed to be i would probably have seen det or worse.
side of one of the ground straps also looks like it might have been overheating just a bit and causing a little oxidizing as well so the 2 step colders went back in. stock heat range was really only in there because i was trying to figure out my misfire problem before anyway.
the cells where it flat lined have had about 5-9% ve pulled from them so that should help a ton, wanted to take it for a run today but i went downstairs and looks like someone got in my hood(shame on me for leaving it unlocked.) so i spent the day checking it out, changing the oil, ect ect. i know they cut my pvc "bandaid" off my charge pipe where i had the old single nozzle for the meth and they pryed my methanol distribution block off my intake. dont think they where looking to steal anything i think one of the neighbors just got pissed about my car being so loud.
they couldnt just steal the engine stand or something they had to go and **** with the car >.< dint find anything in the valve covers so i dont think they went so far to try and destroy anything but i changed the oil anyway.
side of one of the ground straps also looks like it might have been overheating just a bit and causing a little oxidizing as well so the 2 step colders went back in. stock heat range was really only in there because i was trying to figure out my misfire problem before anyway.
the cells where it flat lined have had about 5-9% ve pulled from them so that should help a ton, wanted to take it for a run today but i went downstairs and looks like someone got in my hood(shame on me for leaving it unlocked.) so i spent the day checking it out, changing the oil, ect ect. i know they cut my pvc "bandaid" off my charge pipe where i had the old single nozzle for the meth and they pryed my methanol distribution block off my intake. dont think they where looking to steal anything i think one of the neighbors just got pissed about my car being so loud.
they couldnt just steal the engine stand or something they had to go and **** with the car >.< dint find anything in the valve covers so i dont think they went so far to try and destroy anything but i changed the oil anyway.
Last edited by jerryd87; 07-15-2012 at 03:39 PM.
07-15-2012, 10:25 PM
#274
yah im gona put a camera out there and talk to housing about it. i think they where looking for a way to stop the car from running without actually damaging it, since obviously damaging it is way bigger charge plus having to pay to fix it. not very happy about it, they have a problem with my car(and i think i know who it is they have bitched to me twice before first time wasnt even me was a dick from work blaring his speakers and i had already told him to turn them down, second time my car was idling...........) but they have no problem with the 3 other neighbors who blare there harleys in at 11pm.............. i also obey the noise regulations of 2000-0630 and drive the wifes car to pt.
07-15-2012, 10:30 PM
#275
yah im gona put a camera out there and talk to housing about it. i think they where looking for a way to stop the car from running without actually damaging it, since obviously damaging it is way bigger charge plus having to pay to fix it. not very happy about it, they have a problem with my car(and i think i know who it is they have bitched to me twice before first time wasnt even me was a dick from work blaring his speakers and i had already told him to turn them down, second time my car was idling...........) but they have no problem with the 3 other neighbors who blare there harleys in at 11pm.............. i also obey the noise regulations of 2000-0630 and drive the wifes car to pt.
Try talking to them and tell em "don't touch my s***", wait for them to do anything again and go **** something of theirs up or just do a nasty loud backfiring burnout with some junk wheels/tires down to the rim.
07-15-2012, 10:39 PM
#276
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Talk with them! Go personally door to door of your neighbors an explain who you rank/rate. What you drive and if they see you gunning or revving it please feel free to complain to the army MPs.
All this after you make a report to the base housing and to your chain of command.
I call the base police all the time on this GTO club member!
All this after you make a report to the base housing and to your chain of command.
I call the base police all the time on this GTO club member!
07-16-2012, 12:08 AM
#277
oh yah everyone will hear about it but i have no proof on who did it, on base i dont screw around i take it off for messing around and tuning. heck on base i dont even take it above 2500 rpms because i know its loud and i also know if i keep it below that its about on par with a harley mayby a little bit quieter. i might leave a note on the car "Hi if your ****ing with my car smile for the camera, if not have a nice day."
07-16-2012, 08:54 AM
#279
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oh yah everyone will hear about it but i have no proof on who did it, on base i dont screw around i take it off for messing around and tuning. heck on base i dont even take it above 2500 rpms because i know its loud and i also know if i keep it below that its about on par with a harley mayby a little bit quieter. i might leave a note on the car "Hi if your ****ing with my car smile for the camera, if not have a nice day."
Like my new neighbor moved in, I told him "hey man, brace yourself for my son". He said "No worries I'll turn the TV up".
Lol