Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

thansk jesse.you are correct, the valve open to atmosphere would be fine in that case as its pre MAF.

That variable voltage thing is scary man ....I wonder what fuel pump life will be with that thing

elektrik_juggernaut

somebody beat ya to it.....when i was looking for BOVs on ebay i saw them

12SecZ

The rubber diaphragm will dry up in the heat then crack in the winter. So the question is Toast as in cracked crapola 2 dollar valve in the closed position!

Will we get served Texas Toast, Arizona Toast or East Coast Toast this Summer?

The one I want is about 260.00 I think, 300 was ballpark shipped. Ours cost about 4 cents, they couldn't spring for the full nickel.

This is what I see as the problem, I could be wrong; it happens

elektrik_juggernaut

the one i'm looking at is 170 most places, but i found a place that has it for 160.......it's the same one that N4spd put on his.......TurboXS H34.......comes with a weld on flange too, if your into that sort of thing

12SecZ

But is it stainless silver with blue led's?

elektrik_juggernaut

close!!!!......its aluminum......i'm gonna customize it with my own LED's and then sell them on the black market

Enron Exec

How about a smaller pulley, say 14lb, and add a
BOV to release anything above 7lb. Wouldnt this end up with more area under the curve then the conventional 7lb pulley and no BOV?

TheSVTKid

Bypass valve, and Blow off valves are the same thing. There is no difference other then the name.

It's like saying Supercharger and blower, both are the same thing. Anyways... It looked as though I could throw some info out there so here it goes.

If the "K-mart" bypass was to fail on your kit, nothing at all bad would happen to your motor. Nothing what so ever! You would just hear a funny sound out of the blower called compressor surge. If the bypass valve broke, and didn't release the boost. The air would back up the intake track, and come out the front of the blower. Your Throttle body is closed so there is no air being forced into your motor at that point. Also boost is not controled by a bypass valve on a turbo or blower. Blowers boost level is controled by pulley size, and RPM. Turbos boost level is controled by a wastegate, not the BOV.

(FACT: Many cars factory with turbos didn't ever have BOV's for years. Example 2.3 Turbo fords. They had 15psi from the factory. It was then common to use them to decrease compressor surge)

All BOV's do the same thing, the only difference is looks, and the amount they flow. They all have a rubber diaphram of some sort in them in most cases, in most you just can't see. The only ones that have something other then rubber are a few expencive units, and they use teflon. The worsed bypass valve I have seen is the CHEAP-O Bosch unit that was on pretty much ever OEM car for years and years, and many cheaper turbo/supercharger kits. But funny thing is, I have yet to hear of ONE failure ever with those things. Common you know what I am talking about they are about 2"x2" and black, with a nipple on the end.

PCV valve pretty much have the same material in them, and when they fail 9 times out of ten it's because they got gummed up. Not the rubber failing.

Now about the placement of where the Bypass/BOV can be placed. If you have the MAF sensor behind the Bypass/BOV you can vent the air to atmosphere. I suggest this on because you are then dumping the heated air and not recycled into the blower just to be heated again.

Most blower kits, and turbo kits even if they "can" do that do not. Because the EPA doesn't like things venting to the atmosphere like that. SO PLEASE DON"T THINK that just because you can do it, the blower or turbo company is wrong for not doing it that way. Sometimes the good old EPA and CARB tells them they can't.

Now there is no risk at all of sucking in air into the bypass/BOV if you do vent it to the air with a supercharger. The blower is spinning at idle fast enough to blow air out of that hole at a pretty good pace, so air won't go into it trust me on this. Now you might want to put a KN filter on the end of it to make the sound a little better. Because just because your BOV comes from a turbo company doesn't mean it will sound like a turbo when on a supercharger kit. When turbos let off boost they don't have a belt connected to them to keep them spinning. So they slow down instatly, thus the PHHHSSSTTTT. The blower would be more like a PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH untill you either put the clutch in, or grab the next gear.

Hmmmmm did I miss anything. Sorry it's a little out of order, and hard to read. If I was writing a book and making money off this I might put more effort into it.

Just my big phat two pennys.
EA

PS: I did forget something. The smaller pulley and then trying to open a hole to get lower boost.

t does not work for a few reasons, with a BOV or BYpass valve or a pop off valve. . There are pop off valves that limit boost for different forms of racing so that they have a "equall feild" Now just because the valve is set at 35psi or whatever doesn't mean they run 35psi. Because hitting the pop off valve is BAD for HP. When the boost hits that 35psi mark it POPS off....then the boost drops to like 29-30psi...then back up to 35, and POP... back and forth back and forth. And that makes your HP surge up and down. Can you imagine going down a strait away rocking in your seat?

Now what most racers do is set their boost to a pound or two less then the MAX setting. So that they are getting the most HP they can get without hitting that limit.

Another reason why just having a bypass valve TRY to do that. Is HEAT... and LOTS OF IT. If you are spinning a blower and compression air, you are making heat. The more air that passes thought he blower the more heat if going to be created, (there is more to that but that gets the point out there) Why make the blower do more work then it has to.

Now how it technically "could" work. You can place a inlet restriction in front of the blower, so that the blower can grab a lot of air at low velocity, though as the air flow into the blower increases it causes a restrictioin, and the blower start having a hard time "grabbing" for the air to compress. Only issue with that is you would have to have a compressor wheel that was designed to have this happen or it would become very in effecient. This still isn't the best idea in the world, and you would need to do lots of testing to get it right. So you better have LOTS of fancy testing machines before you start. Or you will have lots of trial and error... more error then trial I can guess.

elektrik_juggernaut

as always, a great post SVT...........what you've said about the surge valve jives with what superchargersonline.com tech section says about surge valves........but i've read somewhere else that the surge valve is there to keep the head gasket from blowing with the excess boost.......this is not true then?........or is it true only in really high boost applications?.........if the surge valve isn't necessary why do they even include it?

Forced

Let me chime in:
Vortech Maxflow Bypass/Blowoff Valves improve supercharger operations by opening to relieve unwanted pressure during deceleration, this reduces heat build-up and eliminates compressor surge.

The one that comes with the Vortech kit is our Maxflow Race Bypass/Blowoff Valves

Our Maxflow Racing Bypass/Blowoff Valve flows 320 CFM @ 8 PSIG and features a compact design that is ideal for imports and others with tight engine compartments. These units will retrofit to standard HKS/Greddy style mounting pads and out performs anything its size. Installation gasket is included. Steel or aluminum mounting flanges are available. The outlet mates to a 1.75" hose.

jesseenglish

The Procharger one also opens during deceleration so there's really no performance advantage.

Plus you'd have to weld a flange onto the powdercoated intercooler pipes. PITA if you ask me. I'd be most interested in one that has an input that you can attach a 1 1/2" hose to so you can utilize the stock Procharger bypass setup.

12SecZ

I thought the HR4 dropped right in w/o weld? Anyayz great info. Sounds like I may not need one.

jesseenglish

I was referring to the Vortech valve. I don't know about the HR4 valve. If you're referring to the H34, no welding is required, you can just clamp it onto the hoses.

12SecZ

Yeah that's the one I think. I am gonna see how EJ's goes, then decide from there. EJ the guinee pig, I like that hehe

Everyone gets a turn. Yeah he said it is a straight drop in for the one he bought and that I am considering. I still need more follow up on how the air just vents back out the compressor as it is forcing air in? I heard horror stories of bent TB butterfly valves but if they are just stories as is 75% of the time the case, then I may just wait awhile, lots of knowledge bing posted latetly, good stuff.

TheSVTKid

That is incorrect, unless there is something fishy going on. The TB is closed, and the pulley isn't going to be spinning any faster, so no more boost is going to be created. Most cases when the BOV/bypass valve breaks (I have never heard of one breaking, just the vacuum line comming off) the valve flutters open and closed, and makes a funny reading on your gauge and a weird idle.

Quote:

if the surge valve isn't necessary why do they even include it?

To rid the SC or Turbo of compressor surge.
Under high psi levels takes the chance away of a TB blade failure.
Helps prevent a belt for flying off if the surge is bad enough.
And also like forced stated heat reduction.

Moral of the story EJ nothing major would happen. Its a minor item, now if you want bling bling that is why there are so many fancy looking ones on the market. They look "high tech" kinda match the faux carbon fibre parts

EA

elektrik_juggernaut

i'm glad you're back on the forums, SVT.........you've got a lot of great information.......i'm gonna try out the BOV anyway, and see how it goes.......i'm expecting 50HP

while your back on the forums, can you tell me what your idea of the best set-up for the procharger would be?.......i'd really like to get your insight into this.......there's a lot of various opinions out there.......some of them involve some pretty extreme modifications........what is your preference for fueling/timing on this thing?

12SecZ

I agree , I love these posts and I am interested in his thoughts on this too. Knowledge oozes out of his posts in a pleasant tone.

What would you do SVT if you had our car and a Procharger?

EJ turns out you don't need that BOV so you can sell it to me J/K

TheSVTKid

Thanks for the kind words guys, thats what makes a guy wanna stick around a forum. I means a lot! Now if I could just find a way to make money off my knowledge. Pay pal me 5 bucks, and I'll answer any question you want. Just kidding, I'm not that vain. But it is a darn good idea. Thing is knowledge is just like cars. There is always somone faster then you, and or smarter then you. If you keep an open mind and are open to suggestions you will always be gaining knowledge. As always never under estimate the power of Books. But don't just read one and praise it as the bible, read like 2 or 3 on the same subject matter and form your own opinion of the facts.

my .02
EA

elektrik_juggernaut

excellent advice.......i usually try to verify info from several different sources.......something i've slacked off on lately, and need to revive