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Last few days in Denver were stressful getting the truck and trailer loaded but I powered through ... I took Wednesday / Thursday / Friday off with the intention to use Wednesday to finalize anything and everything - get the truck loaded, car loaded, clothes packed, pup to friends place, tools consolidated, etc and be out the door first thing, 6am on Thursday morning and make it Independence Kansas by 4pm or so... have plenty of time for stops, gas, food, etc ... Wednesday didnt go as planned and I had more work commitments / meetings that had to occur and packing the car ran into Thursday morning. We didnt get on the road until 1pm on Thursday but we were on the road.
Getting through Colorado and into Kansas was unevent and went well. Biggest hiccup was low tire pressure on my rear wheels and a heavily loaded trailer.
By the time we hit the middle of Kansas the rain started to fall (and all I could think about was OMZ questions about sealing the hatch lexan) and it was pretty much rain off and on the entire trip. We muscled through Salina and Wichita and stopped around 10pm for food in Wichita and between Wichita and Independence it rained pretty hard and this was the most difficult stretch.
We finally made it to Coffeyville to our BnB. The BnB was about 15min from the airport and worked out very well. We relaxed all day Friday and knocked out a trip to walmart for a few items.
Saturday morning came and we got to the airport around 7:30am. I found a incline and was able unload the car relatively easy. I needed to put a the front splitter and the rear diffuser on the car (the middle section was installed back in colorado). I also needed to do a few minor clean-up / button up items on the car before taking my first pass. I wrapped things up around 10:30 and was in-line for my first pass ... we had two planes come in that needed escorting and had one car break-down so it took forever to get through the line. My first pass really just a test pass and rowed through gears up to about 4500rpm and really just listened to the car ... I think I actually decelerated before the end of the 1/2mile and then popped into 6th gear to get off the track.
2nd and 3rd pass were better but I missed 4th / 5th gear (respectively) on those passes but I pushed the car higher into the rev range (around 5500 rpm) and pushing 9psi of boost. I believe I trapped 118mph and 124mph on those passes.
Last pass of the day was a little more aggressive - pushing well past 6k rpms, slower shifts to ensure I hit them and still pushing 9psi of boost. I think I hit a 134mph on the last pass. I was pretty happy with the pass and I felt like I pushed the car pretty hard. I am still running a tank of 91oct fuel so I didnt want to really push the car past 9psi.
I meant to pickup a 8ft piece of 1/2" hose and pump out the 91oct fuel from the tank and replace it with VP C16 and push more boost and add some timing. Overall it was a good day and built some confidence in the car.
Glade you had a good day James. Pretty Good on 91 pump & 9psi
Are you Running again tomarrow?
Get some C16 in that Car so you can get that car Moving..... 91 Pump is crap for the 1/2 miles
The Difference from 91 to C16 is like NIGHT & DAY.
You must have crazy Retarted Timing..... what's your full advance?
If you left the Boost alone, you could add 10 Degrees (NO PROPLEM) thru out all of the boost area. That's 150-200whp.....
Or you could go to say 12psi and add in 7-8 Degrees
This is just a BASE Starting Tune on C16...... and go up from here!
Glade you had a good day James. Pretty Good on 91 pump & 9psi
Are you Running again tomarrow?
Get some C16 in that Car so you can get that car Moving..... 91 Pump is crap for the 1/2 miles
The Difference from 91 to C16 is like NIGHT & DAY.
You must have crazy Retarted Timing..... what's your full advance?
If you left the Boost alone, you could add 10 Degrees (NO PROPLEM) thru out all of the boost area. That's 150-200whp.....
Or you could go to say 12psi and add in 7-8 Degrees
This is just a BASE Starting Tune on C16...... and go up from here!
yea - def running both days! Doors are at 7a, track is hot at 9a and I picked up some 1/2” hose last night and I’ll be draining the tank. In goes 10gallons of the OMZ juice!
I’m currently running 12degrees at full advance on 9psi. I’ll bump up boost into the 16 to 18psi range and gradually put more timing in the ecu.
Sunday ended up being a pretty good day ... got to the airport around 7:30am and pumped out / siphoned out the 91octane fuel left in the tank and replaced it with the VPC16. Ended up putting 10gallons in the car. Track went hot around 9am and I lined up for a quick check-pull ... nothing crazy, 4k rpm shifts, 9psi tune, and it went well.
I loaded up a 12psi tune and kept my ignition map and ran the car and everything went well ... I think I did a easy 120mph pull and the car felt pretty good. Next pull was a 17psi pull and the car livened up and I think it was a 138mph pull. Still running an light ignition timing tune and happy with how things ran. Got back to the pits and bumped up to 20psi and bumped the timing up to 14degrees at 20psi (and leveled back down accordingly). Got the car out and pulled a 143mph pass.
I had three weird check engine lights come up at the end of the pass related to my throttle body ... I was able to reset the errors and only one came back (by the time I got back to the pits) ... it was a voltage error and using the Link I was able to both research the error, setup a gauge to verify voltage, and get it figured out. Got the car started up and it ran normal.
I dont know 'exactly' how the speed timing was determined but my 138mph registered around 155mph and my 143mph pull was around 160mph on my speedometer and there will be some discrepancy as I have slightly smaller wheels but the speedo / Link both were reading higher than what the track said I was pulling ... I dont really care too too much but the car felt much faster than 138mph and 143mph - but it's all good.
My last two pulls sucked ... I uploaded a more aggressive tune (16 degrees at 20psi) and both runs sucked ... my ignition timing cut on both runs ... the first run I left antilag on and it has an ignition cut setting / time-out that totally ****ed the run ... I think after I got back in it I finished the run around 120mph ... it sucked and it was completely my fault (I forgot to turn antilag off). Last run sucked and I got two Link protection RPM limits that ruined the run ... The engine had an abnormal exhaust tone to it so I got the car back in the pits and checked things over, was frustrated with the pull and decided to call it a day (it was already 3pm by this time) and I was happy to call it a day.
We got everything packed up and was able to make it out of the airport grounds in time. Got home, grabbed food, and had the wild idea to drive the 15minutes south and find ourselves in Oklahoma ... Sure enough we crossed into Oklahoma and found a casino (slots only) ... took maybe $30 in and ended up wining alittle over $200 in the first 10minutes of and decided to take the money and bounce. We got home, packed up our stuff, loaded up the truck, and called it a night.
Woke up, took a few loads to the pickup, and headed out...it was a pretty easy drive until we got to eastern colorado and a snow storm rolled in ... wasnt too horrible but the last 100miles of the trip was 40mph the rest of the way home ... got home, had to unload the car, tires, and a few other items. Ran and got the pup from a friends place and called it a night.
A few things in retrospect ...
1. There were a few things that didnt get done on the car that'll get done sooner or later -
2. The 143mph pass, on 20psi of boost, with AFR around .7lambda / 10.4 afr, yielded a 67% duty cycle on my injectors - I was worried that I would run out of injectors.
3. I had a few good buds come out and they were very helpful - very appreciative they were there.
4. Did an AirBnB and it was the right choice ... I didnt want to leave the car/truck in a hotel parking lot and the accomodations were significantly better.
.7 lambda! holy rich fuel mixture Batman! I’m assuming your running it that rich to keep the combustion temps down? I could imagine at 20psi your generating a significant amount of heat!
.7 lambda! holy rich fuel mixture Batman! I’m assuming your running it that rich to keep the combustion temps down? I could imagine at 20psi your generating a significant amount of heat!
I looked at my target table and I'm targeting .74lambda but my logs were showing low .70 to .72 ... running that rich in full boost, carry heat out of the cylinders, and ward off any chance of detonation - definitely running rich though - would be wise to lean that out a bit.
Looking at my IATs were between 60 and 70degrees in the pulls. Probably helped putting the radiator in the hatch and theres a decent passage leading to the air filter that gets ambient air.
Do you think if you changed the ignition limit problems you were getting that it would run better at the 16* mark? Or was 14* of advance the sweet spot?
The link is cutting ignition (I'm not 100% sure why) and/or it's limiting my RPMs based on a violated parameter and I need to dig into it and figure out why.
I dont think the ignition values are out of safe operating range
Congrats James...... Doing much Better! Great Job!
Something in the Ignition Timing Setup is the Problem, or one retards based on a Condition, their are many. Depends on how you set it up.
I forget your motor setup, but for example on my stock motor:
I ran 17 degrees full advance on 93 pump @ 20 psi (street Tune)
I ran 26 degrees full advance on VP C16 @ 20 psi (Race Tune), and the Motor still wanted More
Plus being at Altitude less pressure, so more boost and/or more timing. Plus you have the Wonderful LOW IAT's and that = more boost & Timing!
The Very Low Ignition Timing Values of say 10-13 degrees can also be a problem in boost, making EGT's very high.
Again Great Job.....
Tim
Originally Posted by bealljk
The link is cutting ignition (I'm not 100% sure why) and/or it's limiting my RPMs based on a violated parameter and I need to dig into it and figure out why.
I dont think the ignition values are out of safe operating range
Last edited by OldManZ350; 04-20-2021 at 11:21 PM.
That Motor wants much more Timing, especially at 7000 ft on VP C16
Originally Posted by Rinzlark
Do you think if you changed the ignition limit problems you were getting that it would run better at the 16* mark? Or was 14* of advance the sweet spot?
Last edited by OldManZ350; 04-20-2021 at 11:18 PM.
Bealljk, how was the coolant temps? I don't think one run will have enough time to heat soak that extra capacity with the new fresh air.
Temps were A-ok ... In-fact, there were times while I was waiting in line that I didnt run the fans as the engine was too cold (+/- 160 degrees). Gotta remember that I would run the car, let it idle for a few minutes, and shut it down. From there the car would sit for an hour or so until I wanted to run again.
Originally Posted by Rinzlark
Hmm with 20 psi of boost maybe its time to try the R8 coils
Nah ... I would run AEM coil-packs before I ran R8 coils ... OEM is just fine and Im not nearly as intelligent as you are and I want nothing to do with the coil issues you're having! I've had wire harness issues before and I want nothing to do with that!
I dont intend to run 20psi of boost outside of a track event like this. In reality, I need to dial in my timing and run less boost.
Good news:
On a separate note, I did sign the title on a part-out 2003 track model Z. I dont want to bury the lead and big picture being that I scored another set of v1 track wheels and a set of brembos...
Bad news:
Did a compression test tonight and no bueno ... All cylinders were around 110psi to 120psi but cylinder 1, which came in at 60psi ...
It's hard for me to put the engine at TDC but if I got it at TDC, I can hear hissing from the oil fill/oil cap and from the intake valves (I did conway's brake cleaner fill test and it's bubbling) but nothing from the turbo exhaust side ... not sure if it's a cracked ring, cracked piston, cracked cylinder wall.
Best case is a stretch valve and some tanked rings in which case it's an easy fix and I've needed an excuse to ball hone my cylinder walls, re-break-in the engine with fresh rings. Replacing valves wont be bad but will require some head work. Maybe throw in a block guard? Maybe replace bearings?
Drained the oil and I can 'maybe' see a very few glitters of bearing material (if it's truly bearing material) but I dont see any ring material as of right now. I'll let it drain overnight and check it in the morning. I did put a magnet in the flow of the oil drain and we'll see if it picks anything up.
Got a VHR to swap and a turbo kit to finish building for a 370z and I can get back on my car...
looks like the block is coming out ... welcome to chapter 3!
Good news:
On a separate note, I did sign the title on a part-out 2003 track model Z. I dont want to bury the lead and big picture being that I scored another set of v1 track wheels and a set of brembos...
Bad news:
Did a compression test tonight and no bueno ... All cylinders were around 110psi to 120psi but cylinder 1, which came in at 60psi ...
It's hard for me to put the engine at TDC but if I got it at TDC, I can hear hissing from the oil fill/oil cap and from the intake valves (I did conway's brake cleaner fill test and it's bubbling) but nothing from the turbo exhaust side ... not sure if it's a cracked ring, cracked piston, cracked cylinder wall.
Best case is a stretch valve and some tanked rings in which case it's an easy fix and I've needed an excuse to ball hone my cylinder walls, re-break-in the engine with fresh rings. Replacing valves wont be bad but will require some head work. Maybe throw in a block guard? Maybe replace bearings?
Drained the oil and I can 'maybe' see a very few glitters of bearing material (if it's truly bearing material) but I dont see any ring material as of right now. I'll let it drain overnight and check it in the morning. I did put a magnet in the flow of the oil drain and we'll see if it picks anything up.
Got a VHR to swap and a turbo kit to finish building for a 370z and I can get back on my car...
looks like the block is coming out ... welcome to chapter 3!
If you don't have a ball hone and need one LMK...
Sorry to hear I hope it is something super simple and you do not have to invest a ton more time and money into it.
antilag ... I had a few big bangs/pops that probably blew out rings and damaged a valve...
Originally Posted by Conway_160
If you don't have a ball hone and need one LMK...
Sorry to hear I hope it is something super simple and you do not have to invest a ton more time and money into it.
I think I have access to them here, if not they are only like $80 for each grit. I will probably pick-up a set of micrometers and a bore gauge. I didnt have the funds to do this last rebuild and I think I can budget for them now.
I went back to my build sheet and I have OEM valves ... so I should have access to plenty of those and I have 96mm pistons (thought they were 95.5mm)
$250 for new arias rings isnt too too bad
$100 in OEM head gaskets
$30 Valves should be inexpensive (if not free)
I might replace bearings simply because the engine is out but I'll inspect once I get that far
$600 Oil pump gear? new rev-up oil pump? Might take the plunge.
Dont hate me but 'considering' putting a block-guard in ... I can't get a consensus from the online community. Sleeving is out and CSS is a good solution but I think that guy is like months and months out.
Add $250 for break-in oil, oil/filter, and misc chemicals
$200 to machine & clean heads
$100 to hotbath the block
I love the thought of the block guard as long as it is installed correctly. A semi closed deck will be strong and should hold up better than any open deck when you start pushing the power to it. If you really want to push it get you some fire rings and crank that boost to the moon!!!
Intake valves from Z1 are like $22 each and Exhaust are like $28 ea. If you are going to replace all the valves ($610) you mise well upgrade them to BC ($479) or Manley ($750).
If you plan on spinning that motor past 7400 I would do the billet oil gears, just remember you need to make sure you have the spring pressure to avoid valve float at those speeds.
04-17-2021, 06:19 PM
