paulzy

I've been looking into maybe getting a 350z. I've been looking at a few people's builds and I don't see anybody sleeving their block, even on high horsepower builds. I'm from a honda background and sleeving is mandatory is you want something to withstand 600+hp. Are the VQ stock sleeves jsut that strong or are people finding a rough estimate for power limit?

Another qucik question....are the mannual trannies and stock rear ends holding up good to high power as well?

Sylvan Lake V35

iTrader: (23)

I am surprised no one has asked these questions before....

Stock sleeves start to distort around 800whp, XKR made in the 800s and his bore was out of round when they tore down the engine.

Stock trans and rear ends hold up fine to +1000whp, axles are a little on the weaker side depending on tires and driving style some guys break them at 350whp some guys are on stock axles at 500whp lots of factors come into play.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

^ Nothing more to add to this. Yet another "How many whp __________?" thread answered.
[/THREAD]

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

thought xkr was closer to 900 to the wheels when he distorted? like 890 or something? hal has been running close to 800 for awhile now lol

paulzy

Thanks.

I see all these builds and everybody is using L19 studs, rods with 625 rod bolts, and such with stock sleeves. I thought either the sleeves were hefty enough to take some serious abuse or these guys are nuts and going overkill on hardware when their sleeves are going to crack at a certain power level (which should be lower than anything you'd need L19 studs, and cusotm aged 625 bolts for.)

Sylvan Lake V35

iTrader: (23)

I am pretty sure that's with his 4.0L with the 3.5L he was around the Low 800s. There were no issues noticed with XKRs engine until they tore it down so others that havent been tore down and inspected may be distorted as well. There is also exceptions to every rule...maybe Hals engine is the exception or maybe XKRs was a weaker than normal block?
I don't think we have enough data to say either way. I think it's fair to warn people they can distort when making 800whp.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

l19 are required to avoid head lift which at one point was a issue, dint see too many with 625 rod bolts, think my pauters came with standard arp 2000 as do carillo however carillo have the option of carr bolts. sleeves are over .300 inch thick which is absurdly thick, only other thing with cylinders that thick is the ly5 5.3L gm gen 4 small block v8, and almost as thick as darton sleeves. no one has cracked them xkr simply distorted them into slight ovals not to many run that high on stock sleeves though because its expensive so not enough yet to make a definitive answer one way or another. l19's are required for anything about 500-550 to the wheels, this is vastly different from a honda because our engines make more torque and have a higher pressure vs a honda at the same hp which gets it from revs.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

Take one build event with a grain of salt. The out of round could have been from a single piston issue. That was the case with my block. Both of us had Arias ED piston (zero silicone) by the way... I chose CP pistons for the rebuild.

EDIT: Correction, I did not choose, it was recommended to me to select CP over Arias zero silicone pistons.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

Hm interesting. I chose my wiseco's and upgraded wrist pins because of higher aluminum content over cp's (the upgraded pins put the price of wiseco's are only ~$100 less than CP's). Will be interesting to see if I get any issues.

For what it's worth it could also have been a block impurity. I had a block that opened up a window during over boring that we wouldn't have found if I went stock bore.


OP
You won't have issues with the sleeves. I promise. When you're pushing 1000hp+ then you can start worrying.

phunk2

^^ agree. Before L19s, we had to drill and tap the blocks for 1/2" headstuds. Reason being is that the standard ARPs for the VQ could not be torqued as tight as the VQ needs it. Its been like 8 years now, so correct me if I am wrong... but I could swear I remember the standard VQ ARPs torque spec being like 65# ??? So ya... I was one of the guys in 2004 with a broken heart when I dynoed 580rwhp on a break-in tune at 14psi and didnt make it 15 min on the streets before my headgaskets blew. Moved to 1/2" headstuds, torqued to, I think, 95# perhaps?? So long ago now. But ya, that engine still runs to this day, kick *** and taking names!!

phunk2

aside from all that, in all honesty i think the jury is still out on how much power the block can handle. there are very few in the VQ world that try for over 700hp, and most of them that do, already sleeved the block anyway. For whatever reason, the Z's dont tend to attract guys who want 1000+ hp like some other platforms do.

I do know one thing, If i were to ever build myself another VQ, i wouldnt bother sleeving the block until I broke one first.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

LOL I wouldn't go that far. I've seen and been personally present for a few dyno pulls at 900+whp on stock sleeves without any problems. But I have yet to see anyone run over 800whp on stock sleeves on a frequent or sustained basis with the boost cranked up to that power level for any extended period of time or miles (In other words... truly drive their cars hard on the street and/or the track at that power level for a significant number of occasions or miles). The people who have thus far claimed success on stock sleeves above 800whp seem to have bragging rights from one day on a dyno and/or very seldom use or very few actual miles pushing the stock sleeves at that level.

I think Sylvan Lake V35 gave a great response that is sage advice. OP shouldn't consider aftermarket sleeves unless he has intentions of going for 800+whp or increasing the bore.

RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

Exactly.

psychoballistic

iTrader: (8)

This is an interesting thread here. I've been at 750whp and 688wtq, and have had no issues with head lift, or stock sleeves. This has been the case for almost 20,000 miles and two years of driving on the streets, the dragon, drag strip, etc...

I think the points above are very valid, understand the goals your looking to achieve to determine what you need. I run L19's and they indeed are torqued to 95lbs, and have had zero issues. CP and Carillo combo have treated me very well, and there have been many others with success on similar motor builds.The biggest issue I find is with axles.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

you'd never know if your bore were ovaling until a refresh.

I know my bores were warped on my engine, so it is a real issue. i fully expect to have to rebore/sleeve/find a new block upon my rebuild.

midz350

iTrader: (4)

The sleeves should be the least of you concerns when it comes to building the VQ.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I'd be interested to hear Hal weigh in on this. Seeing as his car has been running for quite a while with 1000hp, and there are videos of him doing pull after pull after pull, and winning against some pretty serious cars.
And when I said 1000hp, I meant at the crank

That being said, I wouldn't mind hearing from SP, VTR, Mazworx, and Forged all about VQ longevity. All in one thread. Now that would be cool to see... public statements from shops. Lol like that will ever happen.

phunk2

the shops dont know anything about it that you cant find on this forum. there isnt enough data to take from to do anything better than guess.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

Actually, I disagree. Like Eddie of Dynosty for example used to build nascar engines (I wanna say sprint cup?) I can't remember exactly but something of that caliber. I'm sure building high vq's every day for a few years you learn something more than what a forum can hold.

For example, you won't find the big hp bearing clearance recipes shops like to keep top secret. Therefore I'm sure there may be more they know and don't want to divulge.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

ive posted my clearances several times and have my eye on a shop back home if they come down on the price a little does that count? =P

honestly people can get a very good general idea on clearances on the web from the bearing manufacturers i would say finishes on the cylinders/deck surfaces, and assembly procedure would be more a secret or exact tunes and mayby tiny tricks they figure out.