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2 months later, flying home tomorrow from deployment and my Z ain't done yet. There has been issues with the fuel return system not lowering fuel pressure at idle to 38-40psi. The Fuel lab FPR's that came with the CJM S2 kit has an orifice that is too small for the return line and pressure won't go down lower than 50psi with the big ole Walbro 450.
Had to buy a Aeromotive FPR instead. Shop already has it but I don't think this is the issue. Usually the orifice is the same size in usually all fuel pressure regularlors. Maybe contamination of the fuel or dirt effected the Fuel lab regulator since it's been sitting for almost a year.
This had been a pain with this shop. I think I have the championship for the longest running wait time for a rebuild on this site. But I am trying to he optimistic about it getting done before Thanksgiving at ***ing least...
Um, I may have you on longest non running car but yours will be way cooler once it's done. Mine died in Aug 2014 or close to that.
I've been planning to install a vortech v3 sci for awhile now. This is the first thread I've come across so far that's recent. OP, you went from being green to tuning yourself. Very admirable. I'm the sort that pretty much has to do EVERYTHING myself because nobody else seems to know what the **** they are doing, and I'm not just referring to cars.
Anyway, after reading this and many other threads, I'm kinda re-thinking this whole FI deal. I have pie-in-the-sky dreams of haul'n *** but threads like this kick me right square in the nutz of reality. I've been putting a lot of time & money into my little project and I don't think I want some ******* in & out of my ride, tearing **** up should something go wrong that I'm not qualified to deal with.
I have about as many miles on my DE as you had OP, on your stock block that bent a rod. You never got it on a dyno before this happened and I wonder, how much hp/tq do you estimate you were making? Also, and this is a silly question but I have yet to solidify an answer, did you install a brake booster check valve? One more thing, thank you for serving our country
I've been planning to install a vortech v3 sci for awhile now. This is the first thread I've come across so far that's recent. OP, you went from being green to tuning yourself. Very admirable. I'm the sort that pretty much has to do EVERYTHING myself because nobody else seems to know what the **** they are doing, and I'm not just referring to cars.
Anyway, after reading this and many other threads, I'm kinda re-thinking this whole FI deal. I have pie-in-the-sky dreams of haul'n *** but threads like this kick me right square in the nutz of reality. I've been putting a lot of time & money into my little project and I don't think I want some ******* in & out of my ride, tearing **** up should something go wrong that I'm not qualified to deal with.
I have about as many miles on my DE as you had OP, on your stock block that bent a rod. You never got it on a dyno before this happened and I wonder, how much hp/tq do you estimate you were making? Also, and this is a silly question but I have yet to solidify an answer, did you install a brake booster check valve? One more thing, thank you for serving our country
Thank you, alot of it was reading the forum and asking ppl questions in PMs or just asking on here. The safest way to me to street tune was to adjust in small increments. I would never make a drastic change to the tune and I would always data log driving to record how my car behaved. If the results were good I would keep the change and log what I did in a running excel file I had on my laptop. I've done everything to this car but rebuild the motor because I simply didn't have the time to do it. And this car is how I learned to be mechanically inclined.
Don't let my experience destroy your dream of FI. If you are just slapping on thr basic vortech kit, you will be fine and you wont be pushing the limits as much as i was. I was running a meth kit with a pretty high flowing meth nozzle and taking almost 20% of fuel putta my compensation tables to make up for the meth spray that allowed me to take advantage of additional timing and the higher knock threshhold of the octane of straight methanol. I was running 21° at full throttle with the meth spray and no knock/detonation whatsoever when people on Pump gas only use about 14-15° degrees or less to keep it safe on the stock block, so i definitly was pushing the limits of the engine.
My build is somewhat complicated so some difficulty was expexted. And because I was going away, but still wanted to fix the car, I relied on a shop that I believe did not specialize in VQs and 9 months later waiting for it to be finished. If it was a reputable shop like Dynosty or something, I would not have the issues I am dealing with now with Hi PSI Performance.
I wish I did dyno the car before the rod bent, I believe that 400 wheel torque was met and at least 450whp but I will never know now. Hoping for over anything over 520whp now with E85 and high compression.
I did not have a check valve or break booster.
Last edited by BluestreamDE; 11-04-2017 at 11:08 PM.
So today I got the Z back. Mixed emotions on the results but it's to be expected.
Car has rough idling behavior but drives fine when under load. Got a P0305 on the way back to my home within 5 min from driving from the shop. And they only tuned the car with about 5 gal of E85 as there was was about a gallon or more left of pump gas, which limited the agressiveness of the tune and not making the power I thought I would make. The final conservative numbers were 467whp and 425tq revving to 7100rpm (15psi) with the 3.12 pulley. I am going to be adjusting the tune once I refill with a full tank of fresh E85 in a few days and I believe 490/440 can be had with more timing
I am also still figuring out a way to fit the 2.87 pulley as apparently it needs to be machined to fit.
I will keep posting updates as it comes along. All and all, Just glad to be in the Z again.
Topped the tank off with fresh E85 from the pump here in town when I was almost on empty yesterday. Richened the fuel comp tables a bit and increased WOT timing tables by a degree.
The tune from Hi Psi was only 15-16° (Now on 17° advance) so I have plenty more to go on this car. WOT AFRs fluctuate between .78-.80 lambda thruout the Rev range so I will work on that a bit later.
Tested the car out this am merging into the highway from 40-120. Maaan, this thing rips. The midrange responce seems alot stronger from last I was on the stock block and the top end pulled very hard to 7100rpm. I can't imagine how hard it will pull with the 2.87 pulley.
With all this said, idle is still a struggle to keep steady with stoichiometric. Raised the idle to 1200 from 800 and it helps regulate idle but afr still swings from 12.9 to 18+. Perhaps the injectors are harsh to tune with low duty cycle.
Really glad for you to hear it's back in your hands.
Interesting how your tq isn't too far off your hp #'s. Typically, there seems to be a much bigger divergence w/cent. sc'ers. In the chart, the tq looks relatively normal in that it has a rounding top then fades away but the hp doesn't keep climbing like I thought it would/should based on other charts I've seen. I wonder, do you think there is something holding back peak hp, not that it necessarily matters but I'm thinking there's definitely some meat left on that bone without a smaller pulley. Then again, what the hell do I know! Just an observation.
Thanks. Yes, the original tune has timing tapering from 15° to 13° timing from 5600 to 7100. Thats why it's falling off early. Reason being the fuel wasn't exactly fully E85 and it was knocking up on the topend, was more like E35 because I still had about a gallon and a half of pump gas mixed with just 5 gallons of ethanol.
I have modified the map already once I got a full tank of E85 after running the tank down. Added timing and I am running 16-17° with no knock so far and running a Lil richer. I am definitely making more power now. I will have to get some dynotime soon to see where I'm at now.
I remember reading a thread where oldmanz posted here and there. It was awhile back that I read it, months. I recall as he went through the test/tune process he kept having to add fuel using the ss box on the top end. The thing is thirsty @ wot.
So you gonna bring back the water/meth?
I spoke w/a tech @ devil's own a couple days ago. I told him I'd like to add water/alcohol 70/30 pre and post maf using a single pump. My thoughts are get a nozzle at the charge pipe right after the ic and 1 or 2 more in the upper collector post t.b. Alcohol might be an issue w/the maf, haven't researched that far yet, but just water, so long as it doesn't condensate on the maf, would send the ecu a signal for cooler air.
My stock engine & auto trans cannot handle what extra power water inj would give, but that's not why I'm interested in it. I like that it will keep the combustion chamber clean and if the pre-maf part works, afford an inexpensive way to tell the ecu that the air charge is cooler so timing isn't pulled, also hopefully negating the need for a larger i.c. when I'm ready for more power. Post maf and the ecu isn't going to know the difference (he said a good tuner can tune around the maf not seeing the cooler charge). The post t.b. nozzle(s) can then be a direct method to get the water/meth/alcohol into the combustion chamber to quench knock or allow for less fuel to be added up top.
I'm still shooting for a s.c. in the near future. Got cold feet there for a minute. Don't mean to jack your thread brother. It's nice to find someone in-the-now & know and who likes to write as much as I do.
You are trying to work around all of the great Features of the Nissan ECU.
The Final out-come of this way of thinking and so called Tuning will only lead you to a DEAD MOTOR.
If you get high enough ATI's that the ECU pulls timing, do to Lack of enough InterCooling. Then you Want the ECU to retard the Ignition Timing to STOP DETINATION.
I'm not sure Who you are getting advice from? Maybe it's late and I've miss read your post.
Don't try to out smart the guys that have developed this Technology...
If you need help, send me a PM
TimRod
Originally Posted by onevq35de
I remember reading a thread where oldmanz posted here and there. It was awhile back that I read it, months. I recall as he went through the test/tune process he kept having to add fuel using the ss box on the top end. The thing is thirsty @ wot.
So you gonna bring back the water/meth?
I spoke w/a tech @ devil's own a couple days ago. I told him I'd like to add water/alcohol 70/30 pre and post maf using a single pump. My thoughts are get a nozzle at the charge pipe right after the ic and 1 or 2 more in the upper collector post t.b. Alcohol might be an issue w/the maf, haven't researched that far yet, but just water, so long as it doesn't condensate on the maf, would send the ecu a signal for cooler air.
My stock engine & auto trans cannot handle what extra power water inj would give, but that's not why I'm interested in it. I like that it will keep the combustion chamber clean and if the pre-maf part works, afford an inexpensive way to tell the ecu that the air charge is cooler so timing isn't pulled, also hopefully negating the need for a larger i.c. when I'm ready for more power. Post maf and the ecu isn't going to know the difference (he said a good tuner can tune around the maf not seeing the cooler charge). The post t.b. nozzle(s) can then be a direct method to get the water/meth/alcohol into the combustion chamber to quench knock or allow for less fuel to be added up top.
I'm still shooting for a s.c. in the near future. Got cold feet there for a minute. Don't mean to jack your thread brother. It's nice to find someone in-the-now & know and who likes to write as much as I do.
Last edited by OldManZ350; 11-10-2017 at 09:27 PM.
I remember reading a thread where oldmanz posted here and there. It was awhile back that I read it, months. I recall as he went through the test/tune process he kept having to add fuel using the ss box on the top end. The thing is thirsty @ wot.
So you gonna bring back the water/meth?
I spoke w/a tech @ devil's own a couple days ago. I told him I'd like to add water/alcohol 70/30 pre and post maf using a single pump. My thoughts are get a nozzle at the charge pipe right after the ic and 1 or 2 more in the upper collector post t.b. Alcohol might be an issue w/the maf, haven't researched that far yet, but just water, so long as it doesn't condensate on the maf, would send the ecu a signal for cooler air.
My stock engine & auto trans cannot handle what extra power water inj would give, but that's not why I'm interested in it. I like that it will keep the combustion chamber clean and if the pre-maf part works, afford an inexpensive way to tell the ecu that the air charge is cooler so timing isn't pulled, also hopefully negating the need for a larger i.c. when I'm ready for more power. Post maf and the ecu isn't going to know the difference (he said a good tuner can tune around the maf not seeing the cooler charge). The post t.b. nozzle(s) can then be a direct method to get the water/meth/alcohol into the combustion chamber to quench knock or allow for less fuel to be added up top.
I'm still shooting for a s.c. in the near future. Got cold feet there for a minute. Don't mean to jack your thread brother. It's nice to find someone in-the-now & know and who likes to write as much as I do.
No plans to bring back water meth at the moment. With my 2000cc injectors I am seeing 53% max duty cycle. They aren't even breaking a sweat at WOT. And the E85 alone is doing a great job with negating detonation.
Meth injection worked very well when I was on the stock block. My nozzle is post maf and at the elbow before the throttle body, that way under boost there is no residual spray on the maf to effect it's reading capabilities. I was able to advance all the way to 21° at certain parts of the powerband. Using Straight Meth will give you the most power.
I don't agree with negating using a better intercooler. I would suggest a Treadstone 1245 like Oldmanz has. I plan on buying one for Xmas to myself haha. The stock intercooler efficiency is only a small window, adding more boost will only make it unable to cool off the charged air under wot. Stock boost levels it is fine.
You are trying to work around all of the great Features of the Nissan ECU.
The Final out-come of this way of thinking and so called Tuning will only lead you to a DEAD MOTOR.
If you get high enough ATI's that the ECU pulls timing, do to Lack of enough InterCooling. Then you Want the ECU to retard the Ignition Timing to STOP DETINATION.
I'm not sure Who you are getting advice from? Maybe it's late and I've miss read your post.
Don't try to out smart the guys that have developed this Technology...
If you need help, send me a PM
TimRod
I agree. I probably didn't articulate what I meant well enough. Late night. If I were to try to "trick" it into thinking the air charge was cool but it wasn't, that would be bad but the atomized water is actually going to cool the air, just like a mister on a hot day. All I'm doing is letting the ecu know this via maf. Then adding water to the upper collector will have all the typical benies.
The only real problem appears to be potentially corroding the maf. Distilled water, or a mixture with alcohol, maybe a timer on the pump so it doesn't start until 5 min after starting the engine to avoid cold water condensing on a warmer maf during the summer for example, locating the water tank in the bay and close to heat. Alcohol has similar effects to meth but meth is corrosive so it would be out.
No plans to bring back water meth at the moment. With my 2000cc injectors I am seeing 53% max duty cycle. They aren't even breaking a sweat at WOT. And the E85 alone is doing a great job with negating detonation.
Meth injection worked very well when I was on the stock block. My nozzle is post maf and at the elbow before the throttle body, that way under boost there is no residual spray on the maf to effect it's reading capabilities. I was able to advance all the way to 21° at certain parts of the powerband. Using Straight Meth will give you the most power.
I don't agree with negating using a better intercooler. I would suggest a Treadstone 1245 like Oldmanz has. I plan on buying one for Xmas to myself haha. The stock intercooler efficiency is only a small window, adding more boost will only make it unable to cool off the charged air under wot. Stock boost levels it is fine.
Better seems to mean bigger and bigger = heavier. If it were possible to avoid heavier, than I'd be down but that's IF. I'm rockin an awd tank so weight is always on my mind, especially up front.
I like to think there's always a better way, that there's always some details there that if discovered can make a positive impact with whatever the subject. Guys like oldmanz and you see things that way, in your own ways, and that's why I'm a fan. When I get this hair dryer on someday soon and get a tuner to safely dial it in, ima try what I'm talking about here. Worst case scenario I can see is destroying a new gt maf and thinking back that I might've saved time just lighting that $350 on fire. Ha.
Got a P0340 and P0345 at the same time driving from Lowes with the wife. Dash lit up like an Xmas tree and the car shut off on its own at 2 stop lights on the way home. Had the typical hard startup symptoms as well and when it was started up, car ran stupid rich. Limped it all the way home and I'm now ordering new Hitachi cam position sensors time now. Car will not be driven much till fixed. Car was fine and was driving strong beforehand.
In the words of "bubba" Clinton, I feel your pain. This is one of the reasons so many build then part out shortly after. Seems like you have the stamina to push forward but this sort of **** just wears guys out.
In the words of "bubba" Clinton, I feel your pain. This is one of the reasons so many build then part out shortly after. Seems like you have the stamina to push forward but this sort of **** just wears guys out.
It's not that bad. These sensors are very easy to replace and can be reached behind the heads towards the firewall. And they are not too expensive.
I have no plans to part out, I ain't a quitter lol
Welp, new Hitachi Camshaft installed (guess this is the new design), drove for 20 minutes soon far and no codes.
Cold starts are perfect, hot starts however are still a pain in the rear and I'm trying to mess with my crank enrichment tables for E85 startup. I'm gonna post my Tables in a seperate thread for help.
Scheduling Dyno time at the same shop that did my rebuild early Dec before I go on leave to see if I can gain more power.
11-02-2017, 05:56 PM
